Vaccination plunge

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Ummm....that's a bit pejorative isn't it?

I think most parents don't explain immunisation to kids because they're often pre-verbal or barely verbal when the get the major suite of shots. I would definitely explain to my 7 yr old son and he would definitely want to know if I took him for a tetanus shot. I'd explain lockjaw, etc. etc.

I'm NT and so is my son and we're both of a scientific bent.

I am glad it went well, and your child had no adverse reactions.

Hmm. Since this very old topic got revived, I'll just mention that we have since caught son up with most, if not all, of the recommended vaccinations with no ill-effects.

Since it was resurrected I suppose I'll mention too ... in my case we put the remainder of my son's vaccinations on hold until he was ready to be enrolled in Kindergarten. My son had a lot of night terrors when he was a baby, I'm not exactly sure when they stopped but it had been a few years since he had one. I put off the pertussis vaccination til last, he didn't have a reaction to any of the other vaccinations leading up that that one. When he had the pertussis vaccination he had a minor night terror the following night an isolated incident and hasn't had any since (this was about a year and a half ago).

Wow, I just left for a little bit and reread my post when I came back to look for typos (sometimes I scramble or omit words, I often don't see my mistakes until after I've posted something) ... anyway, I was going to move some punctuation around and I can't edit the post any more? I don't remember it being like that before? I really don't like the recent changes. I imagine this thread came back up as a result of the recent suggestions for similar posts (I wasn't happy to see it again) and not a fan of the florescent white....
Edit: WOW, and the option to delete my last post is gone now. What were they thinking?

This thread was closed yesterday due to necro posting, but on AspieUtah's inquiry why has that happened, the agreement was made to split the topic starting with his post.

Thanks, Booyakasha!

You're very welcome

Got me head still stuck in the sand. Said there would be a draught didn't I now

Why should I trust vaccine makers if their first and foremost loyalty is not to their patients but to their shareholders?
China and India manage to account for 1/3 of the world population and that don't include those that emigrated and live elsewhere now and have pretty much managed it without the help of as much as aspirin. Or not in it's synthesized form anyway. If it's about taking a chance them have a better track record as far as i'm concerned.

And now that draught is sorted I really should start dinner

When my kids were born I was terrified that vaccinations would make them autistic. My kids were born between 89 and 96. When I had my second baby in 93, that was my first home birth and I got way into all the natural medicine, herbal remedies, avoiding a lot of regular medicine, and being very skeptical of it. I bought into the whole mindset it all and at the time I had no clue that I myself was autistic. Irony, huh? I had also never had a vaccine because I was allergic to so many things that the doctor just didn't want to take any chances with me over it.

I read "A Shot in the Dark", "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor" and quite a few other books on the topic. After talking to my pediatrician and doing a lot of time consuming pre-internet, pre-Google research I found out that autism symptoms usually show up around the same time as the vaccine schedule and the coincidence causes lots of parents blame the shots and also that when some children actually do have problems from the vaccines they are caused by brain damage from a rare and very high fever caused by them and not made autistic by the vaccines, they are brain damaged, not autistic. The one thing I did find out that was true was that the live polio vaccine, the oral kind, had caused polio in older, unvaccinated caregivers because it's excreted in the stool and when the grandparent etc doesn't wash their hands well after the diaper change they can sometimes catch it that way.

My oldest daughter had a reaction to the pertussis vaccine. She had to be in the hospital for a few days at about 6 months old. Her doctor said that she should never get that vaccine again and if I had more children I shouldn't give the pertussis to them, so none of them have had it.

I have my own views on vaccines too, which have nothing to do with autism, mercury, or any of that. I just think we go overboard about vaccines and I think it will have long term effects on human immune systems. I have no scientific proof of it, but just a feeling. I don't agree with giving them the chickenpox vaccine, and I never got it for my kids. They had chicken pox and are fine. I got them measles vaccine but my son still caught measles, yes the big red measles not roseola. I also strongly disagree with them pushing the HPV vaccine on girls when they hit puberty. My oldest daughter has been dating the same boy since she was 14, and they were both virgins at the beginning and there was no need for her to get that shot. I didn't make her get it. My other daughter who is 18 is a virgin and says she wants to stay one until she gets married. She's agnostic and it's not for religious reasons, she just thinks sex is special and wants to save it for her husband. There's no need for her to get that shot either. Also, these are new vaccines and nobody knows the long term effects of them.

Thats just my opinion though. Everybody should do what they want. But I will tell you that if vaccines are what causes autism, why do I have it?

I absolutely do not agree with the quote that starts this thread, but I don't want to start a vaccine war, either.

What I will do is remind everyone that the herd immunity is ultimately designed to protect the most vulnerable, those who cannot and should not be vaccinated for various reasons, including infants, and that when the herd immunity fails, it is those vulnerable members of our society that die. I've witnessed it all play out because I live in an area that has a very low vaccination rate. The anger towards the families that brought unnecessary disease, death, worry and cost into our community is justifiably real. Feel free to argue your rights and so forth, but then stay the heck out of public life, keep your kids out of public school, and most certainly don't throw a birthday party for your child with a running nose and cough that you've been too lazy to have properly diagnosed.

Sorry, I guess this issue gets emotional on both sides. And I do not want to start a war, but I guess you've now seen how I feel.

My son, who we are pretty sure (waiting still for official report) is on the Autism spectrum, came out exactly the way he is now. Nothing to do at all with the vaccines he later got.

However, I was very worried about vaccines too. I had both my kids vaccinated on a slower schedule than most kids do. I would not do more than one vaccine at a time, I even had the MMR split into three separate shots. I had a niece who died within 36 hours of her DTP (now called the DTaP). She had a very sudden virus that her body couldn't handle and it happened very fast. We don't know if it was the shot or coincidence, but this was the main reason for my fear. My doctor assured me that the DTP had been a live vaccine, but the DTaP was not. I also live in a big city where people come from all different countries every day and it's faster to take public transportation than drive, so it is very risky not to be vaccinated here. I know two kids whose parents chose not to vaccinate, and both those kids got Pertussis. They got through it, but were very, very sick for months, and luckily got it as children and not as babies. I chose to vaccinate despite all the Jenny McCarthy fear running rampant, because I decided I would rather risk the effects of the vaccine than the effects of not getting them. I also get my kids the flu shots. One of my sons has a medical issue and the flu lands him in the hospital.

There may be lots of people in India, but that is because they have more children. Their life expectancy pretty much sucks compared to wealthier places. 65 instead of around 80.

Regarding the idea of Herd Immunity and vaccines, if we're going to discuss such a hotly debated topic, I will just throw in the idea that we do it based on research rather than what someone feels should be true or what is being spread in public as taken to be true or what someone thinks should be true.

Rough outline would be to present the credentials of the person you quote, such as:

Tetyana Obukhanych earned her Ph.D. in Immunology at the Rockefeller University in New York, NY with her research dissertation focused on understanding immunologic memory.

Then share the findings of a study they present or conduct:

In 2011, an imported measles outbreak – and the largest in the post-elimination era – hit a community in Quebec, Canada with 95-97% measles vaccination compliance in the era of double vaccination against measles.  (study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23264672)

And the researcher's conclusions about the findings:

"If double vaccination is not enough to patch those alleged vaccine failures and ensure the elusive herd immunity, should we then look forward to triple (or, might as well, quadruple) MMR vaccination strategy to see how that might work out with respect to herd immunity?  Or, should we instead re-examine the herd immunity concept itself?
...
"The biomedical belief that a vaccine-exempt child endangers society by not contributing to herd immunity is preposterous, because vaccinating every single child by the required schedule cannot maintain the desired herd immunity anyway.  It is time to let go of the bigotry against those seeking vaccination exemptions for their children.  Instead, we should turn our attention to the outcome of mass-vaccination campaigns that lies ahead."

source: http://www.greenmedinfo.com story titled "Herd Immunity: Myth or Reality" at: http://tinyurl.com/n9rtnj4

And maybe another link or two for further reading: http://www.whale.to/v/rapp.html
Germ theory: http://tinyurl.com/omqgzws

Edited for truncated URL's.