Advice needed on reasonable levels of homework.

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Hi all,
I know there is another current homework post going at the moment, my question is slightly different.
J is 9 and in grade three, we are in Australia(not sure if that makes a difference or not). He has just started to bring homework home.
J is finding it hard at school and the school arent recognising his difficulties. He isn't expressing concerns at school ie no meltdowns or tantrums at school, he is saving those for home or refusing to talk about school at home.
I have been told that I will be having his first ever psg meeting next tuesday, Im hoping that this will include an IEP but I'm not sure. apparently (according to the vp who is also the dissabilities person at school) the school don't have to give me any of this but they are squeezing me in and doing me a favour. I add this bit of info in because if an IEP is done I want to get it right, I'm not sure what I can reasonably ask for.

Ok back to original question; J's homework, homework will be given out on Monday and needs to be returned by Friday, there is a rewards system in place for the amount of work completed, the quality of work etc, so far (its Thursday morning here) J wouldn't even meet the basic level.
This is what he has a week/4days to complete;
1st page=match stick puzzle, make 2 squares using 10 sticks draw this in the book.
2nd and 3rd pages; copy the sentences (this is front and back of an A4 page.
4th; draw a new front cover for Charlottes Web include border,title,author,illustration
5th page; Letter T puzzle, cut out the 4 shapes and make them into the letter T (sounds easy but even I can't do this one)
6th page; Open ended story, there are two Opening story lines you have to choose one and complete a story.
7th page; gather up 10 -15 of your favorite things and then write a list of these things in alphabetical order
8th page; find a recipe for a class recipe book. Write it out and illustrate.
On top of all that, he has his reader/book to do.
J has fine motor difficulties.
For the first three stressful days all I have been able to get him to do is; complete the A4 double sided writing exercise
Draw a very rough and ready front cover (only in gray lead pencil)
and he has cut out the shapes for the letter T he has tried to make the letter T but he can't do it. The writing alone took up most of the time over those 3 days, with a little bit happening over more than an hours span each day and lots and lots of stress, words of
encouragement from me.
What I want to know is, How much can I reasonably expect him to do? How much can I demand/ask that the school exempt him from? I'm scared that this is setting him up for failure, he worries enough as it is. He already calls himself dumb and stupid.

Oh this note was also included in the folder,
This term all 3/4 students will be receiving homework tasks ever Monday that will be due back the Friday of the same week. These homework tasks are to help students develop responsibility for completing work in their own time. The tasks are not supposed to be difficult and your child should be able to complete them independently-only occasional parent assistance will be required. The homework tasks will cover areas of English and Mathematics. Please ensure your child continues to keep reading every night and filling in their Reading Journal as this is also part of their homework expectation.
If you have any questions, please your child's teacher.


There is also a note in the folder saying No notes from mum on Friday if work hasn't been completed!

Please help, I'm stressed.

I know this isn't exactly helpful, but I had serious homework problems.

Basically, I just couldn't do it. I was capable, tests proved that, but just couldn't do homework.
At that age, my parents answer was to shut me ith their room (desk, no toys) until I was done, which usually took many hours. I could have been done in probably an hour, but just couldn't make myself do the work. Why, I still don't know.
When I got older, this never got better. I learned to do as much as possible during class (or even other classes), because that was all that was going to get done.
So that's the only solution I have, I know it's not a good one.

Since you're probably wondering, research papers: Couldn't do them, but I was very good at rewording other people's work. I'd copy someone else's on the last night, usually taking all night. The last night because I couldn't make myself do it until then.

What you listed, Aurea, we ( my 8 and a half year old son and I, together, ), spend two weeks doing in 8 chunks of 1 and a half hours . And even that feels hard, and deadly tedious and completely stupid and pointless. I can hardly believe that a 9 year old is supposed to do all that on top of full school days, in less than one week.

It takes up so much time that he could be doing other things in. If we actually did the course work ( as opposed to just the "assessable work") my son really wouldn't have time for anything else.

When I was a child, 9 years old, I had no homework. Overtime for children has got way out of hand. School is coming apart at the seams. Won't be long now.

Home-unschooling, that's the only solution I found.

School is child-labour. It produces "value". It produces wealth for some, the privileged, by making knowledge seem hard to get. The easier it has become to access information in our society the harder school has got, the longer education takes, the more time is demanded of children to do this thing.

It perpetuates inequalities. It is oppression. It is political.

What zghost went for me as well. Still have trouble with that kind of thing.

If he is like me, he's over thinking the work to the point of almost an obsession. Not so much the work but all the possible outcomes, which includes failures. I would hazard a guess that his has been set in motion long before the current problem. He is calling himself dumb and he is re enforcing it with every project that is set in a scenario that is not conducive to his way.

His way, well his way might not be mine. I tried to do my homework with the tv on, no I wasn't watching it, but the parents thought it was a distraction. They thought tv such a distraction to me that we didn't have one for a very very long time. It was white noise, it was soothing to the back ground in my head, which was in a constant race. (I use music now and have found I can even set my tempo, speed, of writing by what is playing in the background, but I don't really hear the music, it's just a stim. It's in repeat mode over and over on the same song) I aslo pace, big time, when tackling a problem and they frown on that in school. It was easier for me to concentrate on the matter at hand. It still wasn't a solution as the brain race, the way I think was seeing so many different outcomes, was constantly branching to make it hard to bring it back the the real distraction, actually having to write. In other words I was so far a head in the thinking, it had to be stopped to write it down ( and after writing the thought, damn near impossible to get back to where I had been in the thinking, frustration that often came out in bad manners) and no matter what i was told about correcting words on the spot that might be misspelled or what ever, it was still demanding that they be fixed. My thoughts do not come out in a standard way, they tend to jump to the highlights a kind of short hand to me. And again as a i stared at what had been put down, I tired to make it smooth. It was compulsive that I did so. repeat this countless times and I knew what a daunting task even a simple thing was, home work not on time, if I even bothered to do it at all.

He needs to figure out the setting to do his work and scrap the current thoughts on what it should be. That's NT crap. I still have trouble doing what you're describing. I found that using cursive is not the way I can write best. I print and I can print as fast as most can write. The computer is a god send, with it's spell check and copy paste. Now I can actually write for about the first time in my life, well it's recent in the sense of maybe the last year or two. It's still really rough but i have found I rather enjoy it, if the topic is of interest to me. Even my spelling has improved, becuse i use it more in writing. I can tell when something is turned around, but for the life of me, even though well read (once upon a time) and I had seen them spelled correctly innumerable times, they did not come out that way. I also read funny, in the sense i skip (leaving out some words) through a sentence and then go backwards through it and then I might understand it. I thought every body read like this. How would I know differently. When i read out loud, I did it from beginning to end and no one would ever know I did it another way.

I don't know if you can glean anything useful from what I wrote. All I can say is think out of the normal settings, trial and error with him. Get his feedback on it. And yeah it's hard to do at his age. But you might be surprised if you haven't just plain asked him. I do know what kind of stigma this can set up in a person and have fought those old "failure" thoughts all my life. It has finally dawned on me, well maybe i didn't hit the end goal, but i did learn something along the way. And learning is never a bad thing, even if it didn't fit the normal class ways of measuring it. later in life I still can't do the classroom setting unless seriously obsessed and stim up, but it only lasts so long. What I have learned to do is a way that fits me and it has stood me in good form to do things that those with the degrees can't come close to touching what I know.

The sense of failure and he thinking he's dumb has me more concerned than any damn grades. school as we currently know it has major problems to begin with. I know homeschooling is very hard and it might not be an option for you. There are countless threads in here about it and from what I see a parent or teacher in that setting that really understands the hurdles, has a much better chance of doing something really positive.

And I now see ouinon writes faster than I do As her post wasn't up when I started. What she said as well, agreed 100%.

This is so ironic that it's almost funny, if it weren't so tragic.

Schools spend 5-6 hours 5 days a week doing everything possible to teach children not to think for themselves, not to manage their own time, not to "self-direct", or show initiative, .. .. and then demand that they manage it at home, while continuing the training in the opposite direction at the same time in the school during the day.

What a cognitive nightmare. The supreme kind of cognitive dissonance which drives people mad. And is used in brainwashing techniques too.


It isn't. Nothing could be as hard for parent, or child, as school is.

I guess I wasn't clear in what I meant. I was meaning hard in the sense of very often both parents or the single parent must work. Getting the financial backing to do it. I suppose it might very well depend on the area in the world you're from.

This seems like an awful lot of homework for a child his age. Add to that, his difficulties, and trying to get him to do all of it will guarantee that he will stop doing any and all homework very soon!

The teacher's note gives you a few starting points: the teacher claims that the homework should not be difficult, and that it should be manageable with little or no assistance from parents. This, obviously, is not your experience. It is reasonable to ask the teacher how much time, per night, the teacher expects the children to spend on homework - including the reading and reading journal (don't you hate when they act like all the little additions aren't really homework, as if they don't actually take time and cause stress?). I find that even with NT kids, teachers tend to vastly underestimate the time that homework takes. Reminding teachers that the child needs to get home (they think the kids magically arrive home the second that school lets out!), get a snack, unwind, PLAY!! ! (I tended to remind my kids' teachers that I considered play an important part of their day when they were young - I never had a teacher try to insist that children should not have any time to play outside, with friends and get exercise!). I also reminded teachers that at least once a month they need to bathe. The idea here, was to make the teachers remember that children have lives at home: they are not supposed to just do homework! Once you get the teacher pinned down to how long the homework is supposed to take per day, subtract the amount of time he's supposed to spend on reading and the journal, and that's the MAXIMUM time he should spend, per day, on the packet. Make it clear that you WILL be sending a note, every Friday, telling the teacher that your son spent x amount of time working on the packet, with these results. If the teacher refuses to say what a reasonable amount of homework is, that means you choose. What do you think is reasonable for a child his age? Half an hour? Say so. If the teacher insists that it is however long it takes, tell the teacher it would take your child five hours a night, and that is not reasonable. You believe, based on your child's temperament, your child's need for down time, and the reading you have done about these matters, that any more than half an hour of homework per night for him would become counterproductive. You don't want school and school-related activities to become so negatively charged that he becomes school-phobic. If the teacher has suggestions, listen. But don't allow yourself or your child to be bullied into anything that will ultimately be destructive. Maybe the teacher's goals can be met in an alternative way.

As to the fine motor issues, is your son receiving Occupational Therapy support? Is that something that your schools are supposed to offer? For some children, pencil grips can be very helpful - not the cushions, but the grips that are molded plastic, that are almost triangular with places for the child's fingers to rest, to have a firmer hold on the pencil. Will they permit some of his written work to be dictated (to you) instead of written by him? As he gets older, will use of a computer be available, and will they provide instruction in keyboarding to make that a usable alternative?

If the IEP can't be done at this meeting, just get some basic outlines worked out to deal with the homework for now, and set up an IEP meeting for as soon as possible.

That sounds like an awful lot of work for a third-grade student. And to expect that parents will not help? And for the teacher to forbid you to excuse your child, knowing that he has issues with these sorts of things?

Honestly - I'm no parent - but I'd keep my child home on Friday and excuse him at the office, then work on those things over the weekend so that he could give them in on Monday. That takes the stress off his head and the matter out of the teacher's hands.
And/or (you could do this as well or instead), I would go over the teacher's head. She's being unreasonable if she won't allow you to explain why your nine-year-old had difficulties with homework, something he's never had before and has definable, testable difficulties doing. Talk (or complain) to the department head, principal or vice, school counsellor, whomever it takes.

I've heard the ten-minutes-per-grade rule, but I don't really agree with it. I think it should be entirely determined by the type of homework (how hard and stressful is it?), the child's temperament, how the child feels that day (good day at school? go for extra! bad day? cut him a break!), all sorts of things. I think it's a good guideline to start with. In the end, you know your child better than anyone else does.

(I see that jat's post has appeared while I was typing this... I agree with just about everything in that post also.)

Please remember that the teacher hands out the grade and as fine and correct as the statements on time are...you run a risk of getting the grades that indicate failure. In the army they always taught us a bad order could "jump the chain of command", I never forgot it. If you might like to confront the teacher about the time your kid has to spend on the homework, if she is unreasonable about possible solutions, jump the chain of command, right up to the school board if you must and I wouldn't stop there if I wasn't satisfied. So what the hell is she doing while on her time with the kid? Is the load for him equal to other kids? How do other parents feel about it?

I am a retired teacher from Queensland.

For year 3 the amount of time spent on homework is low; if I remember rightly it is 15 minutes per night. The year 3 weekly homework sheet I've seen is one A4 sheet with some spelling, some maths which is revision type stuff, maybe some sentence writing. Sometimes there might be a question to look something up on the internet.

There are two ways to approach this. One is to discuss it with other parents in his class and form a lobby to protest - in fact refuse to accept so much homework. I suppose part of that strategy is to see the principal about the amount of homework.

The second strategy is to refuse to let your son do any homework and state this to the class teacher in a pleasant way (if you can manage to stay pleasant, that is.) Explain that you have to protect his mental health, that he is stressed after being in school all day and that he needs time to himself.

In fact, I would definitately do this.

I did not know about aspergers when I was a classroom teacher but I had sometimes had special arrangements with parents whose kids were labelled ADDH or were struggling and tearful. Such kids were oftn not expected to do homework. I would be aware of the stress that being in a classroom all day had on them. Occasionally I would have an arrangement that the student could have a day off when things got to much. I wonder now if any of them were aspie.

You are in for a tough time with the system but you are fighting for your child's health. I have seen my daughter Smelena go through hell and she can never let up. There may be asides made that you can't handle the kid at home, that you are a bad mother etc. Keep your sanity by posting here.

If you get these messages from teachers and other parents, realise that many others have been hurt this way. You are not alone.

I have just read Jat's post and I agree with everything that is said.

I am angry that you have been treated this way by the school system. I will only address the homework question, but an IEP, Occupational therapy, speech therapy, aide time etc, etc are other things you will need.

ps My grandson has fine motor skills problems too. Helen has withdrawn her son (year 3) from handwriting sessions because he has stopped writing. Before this intervention he was writing page after page of wonderful stories with his older brother.

Typing on the computer is the skill your son needs to develop at his own pace.

Good luck.

Feeling really moved by how solidly/sanely both nannarob's and jat's posts are standing up for childrens rights in the school situation. I am incapable of protecting my child, or myself, in that way when in institutional situations. ( another reason I had a home birth, and didn't even get a midwife until 2 weeks before I calculated that I was due. Because I knew that I would not be able to stand up to the pressure to do everything that they told me to if I got involved in the system.)

My son used to draw, page after page of super intricate detailed glorious things, stories in comic form aswell as plans and diagrams, with the most beautiful colours. Since starting the schoolwork, even in the small amounts we do, he has almost completely stopped. He will have a burst of activity now and then and stop again.

The strange and sad thing is that the bursts seem to coincide with school holidays, when he doesn't have any homework to do. My son also has fine-motor stuff, trouble holding pencil, hurts etc. I think even the "little" amount of forced pencil-use has put him off doing it for fun, or just tires his hand. Handwriting is not spontaneous use of line, it is regimented.

Most of the stuff you describe on this homework list sounds more like things I used to do in my spare time and sounds like an awful lot of busywork, rather than real substantial academics. I used to find this extremely frustrating. Art projects were frustrating for me. I used to draw nice pictures as a child, but some art projects, especially those in which I had to cut with scissors, drove me up a wall. I don't know the reason for this problem, because I did well in other motor activities, such as writing. People told me my writing was nice.

I think you have to ask yourself if the tasks that your son is set is beneficial to him. Does he learn anything from listing some items? How does glueing some stuff together a learning oppurtunity, unless it is an oppurtunity to feel humiliated?

Hi all,
Thanks for all the replies, you all expressed the same thoughts I'd had.
I approached the teacher yesterday and was told "Oh they (the kids) only had to do the first sheet".
Well that was soooooo clearly stated in his workbook. NOT!! !! !
A weeks worth of stress could have been avoided had that been clearly stated, she apparently told the kids this.

Sorry guys, you can imagine how angry I was after reading the note I printed which was in his workbook, then seeing pages and pages of homework tasks. What else was I ment to think.

I am a mother in Queensland Australia also and I went through the same fights about homework for the last 3 years with my son, although we didnt have an AS diagnosis then, I just couldnt take the stress of it, so most of the time I either wrote a note and let him take longer to do it, or just gave him the answers because after two hours of struggling, the tears came, and if we didnt address it then, then the meltdown happened. Now he has just started highschool and OMG... the homework is B.S. and to top it off, I dont even understand grade 8 math or english or science, so how the heck and i supposed to help him with it.
This week though is HIS week, since we now know what and why, the school is in for a mighty big shake up, there is some great research and reference papers on tony attwoods site & on the O.A.S.I.S site (onine asperger informtion and support)regarding homework for our kids and teaching guides for teachers, that may help some parents here if you havent already found it. I have printed off reams of information to take to my sons school this week and I will not stop till he gets the learning environment that he needs, its about time education and a childs mental health were combined.

Hear, hear!

We are homework rebels around here! My sons are only in grade 2, so they don't have much at this point, but we have been ignoring their nightly readers for quite some time. They already read lots on their own, and they hate the dry, little books that are sent home for each level. It has the exact opposite of the intended effect...it makes them hate to read! So what's the point?

The therapist also gave us some great advice, figure out the purpose of each piece of homework. If he already understands the concept, she said there was no point in frustrating him by forcing him to complete it. And if he doesn't understand and needs extra work, she suggested scribing for him, to avoid too much printing (poor fine motor) or finding a way to help him learn that doesn't cause him undue frustration (a game or somehow involving his special interest).

I thought that this was excellent advice. It's not about completing arbitrary pieces of paperwork, it's about making sure he gets all the concepts, with the least amount of frustration, which will just make him hate school and learning or feel bad about himself. The teachers will just have to make allowances for this.

Aurea, I'm really glad to hear your son didn't have that inhumane amount of homework to contend with every week! I choked on my tea when I was reading your OP.