Aspartners: Questions

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Okay, now I understand. It's no wonder NTs just repeat the same phrases verbatim without any thought behind them and it seems like they're programmed. The intuitive part of the brain does not examine for rationality and contradictions. Intuition is what is inborn to you sort of like if I touch a hot surface my first reaction is to quickly pull my hand away.



For me, it is difficult to fathom that most people don't have these discussions even within their own heads. This is because my intuition is duller or non-existent.



For me, I don't have that luxury. It exhausting but the brain is considered a muscle I believe. The rational part has built up more of a tolerance sort of like a person who builds up a tolerance for a weight and then they have to go up. My rational part is super charged because it has to be that way. It's similar to a person who becomes blind and this person's 4 other senses become sharper and more acute to help adapt.



I would love to do that. I think it would be interesting. I'm not giving up on all NTs. It would be irrational for me to do that as I would be making a hasty generalization which is a fallacy in logic. The NTs I met in America are but a fraction of the world's population. It would be like League_Girl giving up on all guys because she had a few crappy boyfriends in her life.

I follow them blindly only because I was taught. I always got in trouble whenever I didn't follow them and there was always a consequence. I think people who tend to not follow the rules end up getting in trouble with the law, always getting into trouble at school, and they have problems with employment. No wonder they make it a mental illness when people won't follow them because they do not like authority. I always hated being punished, I hated spankings, time outs, being grounded, having my Barbies get taken, not being given dessert, having privileges taken away, being yelled at, and that taught me to follow them. Even if I didn't understand the rule in place, I only knew it was there because the teacher said so or my mom or anyone in charge and it was the way it is. I knew if I didn't follow them, I'm in trouble and I hated being in trouble. But yet they say aspies are rule orientated but now I have been hearing for the past five years they won't follow them if they don;t make sense. back when i was first diagnosed, it said children with AS were adherence to the rules and get upset if they get broken and not followed. Now I am hearing the opposite so I think things about AS have changed. Now I know rules are there for a reason and I have never ever seen anyone make rules just to make them so I don't know where all these people online who complain find these people who just make rules that are stupid and power and dictation or unless they are one of those people who don;t like authority so they are always in trouble and were probably always getting into trouble at school as children. hey there are some rules I don't agree with and I think they are stupid but I know if I don't follow it, then I get a consequence and that could be getting a warning on the forum or getting banned.

If people want to break them, then they have to accept the consequence. Rosa Parks sure did and she was seen as a hero and got famous for it and all her people decided to support her by boycotting the busses so they can get what they want because the rule was unfair and discriminative. So even NTs can go against a rule and not care about a consequence.

I am sure this is how NTs are also taught to follow the rules but I could be wrong because I am not NT and my mind works different so I learned and thought differently than other kids. I always assumed kids followed rules because they were taught to, not because they knew if they don't follow them they are in trouble. I was shocked when I was reading spanking debates, it said hitting a child does not teach them right from wrong, it teaches them to not do something or they will get hit. I thought "You mean kids don't learn to follow rules or they get a consequence." I was like this in everything. Don't do this or mom will get mad, don't do this or I will lose recess, don't do this or I will get in trouble and it could be a time out or getting grounded, etc. So that means punishing me didn't teach me right from wrong, it just taught me to not do stuff or else I get in trouble. That is not how kids think and learn when they are taught to follow rules? That is how I sure thought so spanking arguments always fail with me because they will mind as well say grounding a kid is wrong or giving them a time out or taking away dessert or privileges, etc. because it sure didn't teach me right from wrong, it just taught me to not do things or I will get in trouble and that is being screamed at or time out or sent to my room or being grounded or having something get taken away, not allowed to play with friends, etc.


But wait, there are still people out there who still don't understand so we have laws in place for their own safety. Their reason for following the law such as wearing a seat belt or having their kid in car seats so they won't get a ticket really tells me they don't care about their own safety and their kids and they are only wearing them and have their kids in car seats because they don't want to pay a fine, not because they care about their own safety and their kids and want them to be protected. It's like how someone may say they don't shoplift because they don't want to go to jail, not because it's dishonest and if everyone did it, then the store wouldn't make any money. I have seen NTs whine online about the government setting laws to "dictate us" and I know that is not true, it's to protect people and anyone who thinks that is an idiot and don't really understand or care about their safety or other people. So those people are the reason for why we have these laws. I would say people do follow them blindly while I don't because I understand the reason for them and understand it's a safety issue so I am following the law. I ask myself if there was no law in place would I still have my kid in a car seat, would I still be wearing a seat belt and my answer is yes. The same can go for rules too, if there was no rule against sexual harassment, would you still do it or no? If there was no rule against bullying, would you still bully?

I realize just because there is no rule or law about something doesn't mean you should do it and the only reason why rules and laws exist is because it's to get people to not do them so people can be protected and feel safe. The laws and rules are meant to protect people and keep things under control. I don't see the point in making a rule if it's not going to be enforced.

I came across this here:

http://www.eatyourcareer.com/2011/11/wh ... s-mistake/

and it had an example of following a rule blindly and what the person described was black and white thinking and it was something an ASD waitress would do so that would mean even ASD people would follow rules blindly due to literal thinking. I can see other people would normally protest because it was only two minutes past the time for getting drinks at discounted price until 6 PM and it was now 6:02 and the waitress is being rigid about the rule let's say so she is refusing to give them discount drinks because she is following the restaurant happy hour policy time table.

I think the article was basically describing seeing the shades of gray in rules.

Yes, it made no sense to me at all. To me, it seemed like word salad.



Why does she hate Noam Chomsky so much? It's pure hatred to the nth degree. What did this man ever do to her? I doubt they ever met. She seems to think I write like him and her son's liberal arts professor. How do I do that? A lot of the thoughts are my own thoughts and some are from other writers like Morris Berman. Not every bit of writing on my blog is mine. Some of it comes from outside sources which I use to emphasize my points. They deserve some credit as well.

How do I write like Noam Chomsky and her son's liberal art's professor? I don't get it.

In fact, I've never studied philosophy or taken a philosophy course. It is naturally how I write and I just think through things and ask questions especially when I spot contradictions. To be honest, there is nothing special about me. I'm not a genius nor am I in the highly intelligent zone. I have a 98 IQ. I'm not them nor do I have their intellect. I'm just simply a guy who simply is ignorant in many areas of life, morality, etc. I just simply feel like I'm missing data all of the time. For example, I ask if x is true why isn't a, b, and c true as well or how does this hold up? I read and question things to understand things better. Whenever I do receive answers it leads to more questions.

It's like the more I learn, know and understand paradoxically, the less I know and understand. Even the stuff that I write, is my writings and what I say based upon sound reasoning? To me, it seems like it is but I have doubts because of my own imperfections. I just don't know.



Yeah, you're right. I have more productive things to do with my time anyway. I have an awesome wife, family and you guys are awesome for support.

Check this out by Harry Browne.

http://stuffthatisgood.com/wp-content/u ... -World.pdf

He is libertarian and even though I don't agree with libertarianism it doesn't mean he does not have sound advice on some things. Look especially on the freedom from social restrictions. What do you think? League_Girl, you don't know it but espoused some of Harry Browne's beliefs on relationships. Why be in a relationship in which you are incompatible and one tries to force the other person to change and be compatible? Why not go into relationship in which one is compatible. I believe this is the crux of what you said?

Wrongplanet is our miniature society as well. Within this, we have small groups as well.




I don't think there is one ounce of empathy in their body.

I may comment on this later but right now I'm tired. I'm redoing my wife's closet by putting up new shelves. One of the things I have to do is make sure the shelves are level using a bubble spirit level tool. http://www.dreamstime.com/stock-photo-c ... ge21342200

It works great and if the bubble is in the center than the object is level. For some food for thought please read this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_K ... evelopment

http://psychology.about.com/od/developm ... hlberg.htm

http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/kohlberg.htm

http://www.haverford.edu/psych/ddavis/p ... tages.html

You're right, I did. I was thinking about it to much. I will say this. Even if they're vile creatures they are correct. I should never have posted there. Based upon Kantian ethics posting there will not help anyone achieve their ends at all. Philosophically I don't need to post there and they're bad for one's mental and physical health anyway with all of that venom and hatred.




I have an answer. Before they got married, both sides were dealing in a set of unknown, unknowns. A lot of these women are older women and more than likely to them someone with autism was like Rainman. They could never have foreseen how profound certain issues would be. Neither would the Asperger husband. I can say that until I got married I did not know how far out of the mainstream I was and how profoundly affected I was. I just thought I had minor quirks but my aspergers is more profound than I thought. Neither could've made an effective decision because they did not have all of the facts. They did not have all of the facts because both sides did not realize they didn't have all of the facts.

This has nothing to do with marriage but is another example of the concept of having an unknown, unknown. When I went to college I thought all one had to do was get the degree and that was it. I did not know one had to have excellent, salesmanship, extraverted soft skills throughout my tenure there. I did not know that going to college could be a high risk investment. None of these crossed my mind so therefore I could never have researched these at all. Like I said, I thought I was simply a quirky guy and for a long time I thought autism = rainman so I never knew I had profound issues. I can't improve myself if I don't even know if there is something I need improving. With the addition of the concept of "Be true to yourself" and "Be yourself" it confounded things even further. I think I interpreted it to literally and my family did not understand how literally I interpreted it and I don't believe they still do. There are lots of unknown, unknowns we were dealing in, in our various relationships.



Therein lies the problem. You're right again. The phrase is so vague that it can be misinterpreted easily. We have Nambla who want to be themselves as well. I am not going to give them a plug because of how vile it is. They're pedophiles. Can pedophiles be themselves? Not only no, but HELL no. It is absolutely wrong to molest a child. This is one case I do believe black and white thinking does apply. There is no shades of grey here. Should this man be allowed to be himself?

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2007/07/30/jac ... -web-site/

Again, HELL no. There are cases in which not only is being true to one self is a horrible idea but is immoral like in the case of pedophilia.

I do believe those that a lot of cases do have grey areas in them.

I think that guy's an idiot. He may have not committed any crimes yet but he admitted to being a pedophile and taking pictures of kids and posting them online which is idiotic IMO. He even said he would have sex with them if there was no law about it which was another stupid move IMO. Just an example of why we have laws in the first place. To protect innocent children from people like him. His reason for not ever committing the crime is because of the law about it, not because he thinks it's wrong and it knows what harm it will do to the child and that he cares about the child so he doesn't wish to hurt them. I think people like him are delusional. They see nothing wrong with what they are doing.

We need more idiots like him to admit they are a pedophile and what they do and admit to what they would do if there was no law about it so parents and people can be on the watch out for them to protect children.

He cannot be arrested due to not violating any laws so all they can do is put him on alert and he thinks they are violating his freedom of speech. I actually read online somewhere most people don't know what freedom of speech means. I think it was 60% of Americans.

League girl- I have a complex research based argument for why punishment, and especially physical punishment is both ineffective and immoral. I also have some explanations for why so many people think otherwise. It's a bit off-topic here, so when I have time, I'll post a new thread. Like you, I'm very passionate about the issue.

I would like you to post it.

The ASPartners keep claiming we're narcissists. How is this so?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissist ... y_disorder

When I look at what this disorder is it seems to me that Narcissists have to high of a self-esteem which is pathological. It seems like these women are making arm chair diagnoses that are contradictory to each other? What are their credentials to make these diagnoses? How do they come up with diagnoses that are contrary to each other?

Right now, I do not believe I can succeed in America because of the current Zeitgeist. Wouldn't this state that I lack confidence? Wouldn't narcissists be over-confident? How am I a narcissist? What logic do these women use? Are they dropping to much Acid or something?

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 03 Feb 2014, 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

People with ASD can appear narcissistic.
Also, the women on ASPartners may not be familiar with the medical definition of narcissism (or even that it is a diagnosable disorder). They likely just mean "self-centered" or "arrogant". Trust me, they are not putting nearly as much thought into what they're saying as you are.

I don't think they can tell the difference. They even said toddlers are narcissists because everything evolves around them. They do not consider other peoples feelings or their needs, they throw a tantrum when they don't get their way and when you tell them no, they say we do the same thing.

^^^
THIS

They are not doing any kind of thoughtful analysis, whatsoever.

I don't see them putting any thoughtful analysis to it either. When they speak, it comes across as word salad to me. It's difficult to follow. I have gained a few tidbits here and there but for the most part I'm completely lost.

I am n/t.
Regarding the post ON as partners.

The post from cube arrived unexpectedly. I didn't understand what the post was about. That someone was really wanting help.
We usually are caring and tell someone kindly that this is not a forum for them. It is a safe haven for
n/t to n/t talk. We can give a list of other places that we think are a good place to read for asperger people. We know those places because we ourselves have been there and read them.
( This forum also) We search for help for ourselves and yes, we will be happy to help someone find help for themselves.
Most of us have given up on trying to help an asperger person due to being misunderstood and hate thrown our way.
Example: your notes here reading far to much into a simple act of kindness to you.

I wrote - read AS and their partners. Your reply. no. never heard of them.

The correct reply would be, thanks for the info. ( and do what you want with it ) NOT berate me of offering you assistance.

The forum says it is for n/t to n/t, and not one of you here said, OH, it is not for us to be there.

No, you said we are evil because we don't want asp- n/t conversation.

lwaxy and other aspi writers were there IF they had an aspi partner.
So we let it slide. We did what we could. we offered our assistance.
However, it is hard for us because we gave n/t thoughts and assistance to an aspi. She didn't really get it or like it. but we did try.
We learned a lot from her way of thinking and how she sees things.
I met two little kids and I think their MOM is aspi. I now know how to help. They arrive at my door unexpected, so yes, I am kind and help. I try to give the kids the attn they may not get from mom. I give them advice on helping mom at home. All in kind.

You berated the writer here for asking for help ( suzy ) regarding a 16yr old girl that may be aspi or something.
Writers here wrote how EVIL that is to think we can diagnose, etc.
All she was looking for was some forums here that the girls mom or daughter could read.
The girl is in deep trouble with the school trying to help/courts and now a psych.

Duh, you cannot say, well then, have the girls mom come find it and read it.
She is exhausted. She is not one to look for info like I am, like YOU are. She is emotionally spent by her daughter. Her ex is never around, a mess. Trying to find something. Thinking maybe if she can get the girl to read here, it may help her to figure herself out.
You cannot put yourself in another's shoes, do it doesn't occur to you that mom may be exhausted by a teenager that is a pathological liar, doesn't want to go to school or appt's. Then swears at her mom for trying to help her.
That is why a writer came here to help another.
You are right. She may not have aspergers. We as n/t's do not really believe we know the answers. Don't know the exact diagnosis.
but we know help is needed and we try. I did give mom links to ADHD.

A good response was given by the writer 'DAD'. It was appreciated. He said, she really may need meds and not therapy. He may be correct. That reply is taken seriously.

I do not go to aspi only sites and insist they help me an n/t.
However, I do read them and learn. I learn the way an asperger person may think in order to talk to another better in real life.
It may be a spouse, family member, or fellow office worker. If I sense aspi, I change my conversation a bit. It works. I did learn.

Yes, asperger people do have a problem where they pretend to like something before being married and once married, they decide they don't. A lie is told.
This can be minor or major.

We have different personalities.

I do not want to stay here and converse with you.
I read enough.

However, I know this forum is here if I need it and that is appreciated.
I happily refer others to it if I think they need it.

Please don't bother writing to my post. You won't write a kind note. You never do.

Everyone,

I need to say something here. Please, don't say anything negative to Dana, mock her, dissect her logic or do what we normally do. This woman is experiencing severe emotional pain and so are the other women at aspartners. Their anger is the result of that pain. I understand where she is coming because I am in severe emotional pain myself.

Both of our thought processes are different so I could not perceive it. The truth is even though we have different neurology's I believe we are all still cut from the same cloth, we are as human as her and we all have a soul. We all have our flaws and we experience the same emotions like sadness, anger, hatred, love, despair, etc, etc. Communication is the #1 key to any relationship. Our thought process and neurology affects the way we communicate and the way we understand the world. This goes for both ASD and NT. Even with this there are still similarities so I think we are cut from the same cloth.

I am a philosophical type aspie and I have to ask how much do we all truthfully know. There are all kinds of evil like hatred in the world but what causes evil? What is it's root cause? Like Socrates, I believe the root cause is ignorance. If we're all (NT and ASD) to develop better truths, better belief systems and a better world we have to not only question each other but ourselves as well including our own belief systems.

I think Maxine Ashton's work ought to be examined and see if it actually holds up. What if there is some truth to what she says? I do believe in what Steven Covey says which is "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts." We have to think about the future for all of us as a whole. What if one day there was a way we could all work together to help everyone (ASD and NT) achieve their full potential?

It is why like Socrates "I know nothing and I know that I know nothing" and "I only have an awareness of my own ignorance."

I am not going to even bother replying to her and she said she has no interest in conversing with us so I won't even bother. I didn't understand what what she was talking about anyway. It's like we're both two different people on different planets. Us vs them. I can get along with NTs if they are nice and understanding people and accepting. I get along with my parents fine and my brothers. So the whole who do you relate to more and get along better and for me it's neither because it depends on the person.