Do parents respect bad kids more?

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I did live in a communal situation as a child... in a way. When my family first moved across the country when I was 10, we all lived with my grandparents for 3 to 4 months, until my parents could put in a down payment on a house. There were 6 people in total: me, my older sister (20 at the time) my parents, and my grandparents. However, I was still the only kid in a sea of adults. Which meant I was the sole outlet for everyone's narcissistic expectations, as well as their sole emotional punching bag. "Because they cared about me", of course. There were no other adults who could be a moderating influence on my family, no other kids I could form an alliance with, and no pets to divert my family's panopticon-like attention.

Well, help me understand one thing. If my family was indeed abusive---although they didn't fit the legal definition of such---why were all my therapists so callous and dismissive? Why didn't they actually help me, or even tried to help me?

(this thread is lowkey very entertaining and im mildly glad i got back on here just to be able to read two pages worth of it )

it was interesting to see everyones input on the co-sleeping thing. i was raised pretty normally with each of my siblings in their own room and even as babies we were in the nursery- never with our parents. i was also adopted and therefor never breastfed (and a lot of psychologists would say that i therefor shouldnt be able to bond well )

Aspie1, I feel like Ive been saying this all along but....I think that maybe you and your parents were (quite unfortunately) just not a very good match. Im truly sorry for that, but you should try to broaden your viewpoint a little. All families are different, and all kids are too. Some children mightve done fine in your house. Its unfortunate that your parents didnt try to help and adjust to your needs like parents should, but you shouldnt go around believing all parents are like that because its just not true. Im sure theres a whole lot of children that wouldnt want to live in the way you're describing because they love their family the way it is.

Communal living is an interesting topic. I watched some video once about somewhere where several families lived together in like essentially a giant home where each family unit had there own little area of bedrooms. The kids all grew up helping take care of each other, eating together in the cafeteria (where families split up who would cook on what day) and playing outside together. The families could lean on each other and they all said they not only loved that type of environment, but that their children were thriving in it. I think it would be really cool to grow up essentially stuffing my neighborhood into one giant house. Your friends are always next door to play with and you're never lonely or bored. However, at the end of the day each family went back inside to their own area. So although you might have several parental figures, you still only had one set of parents. And they still had their own way of parenting. You couldnt just switch parents thats ridiculous
Honestly tho I could see so many problems with communal living. It might sound like it would make socializing easier, but I dont think it really would. I mean, those kids are essentially like siblings right? Well, just because Im comfortable with my brothers doesnt mean Im any better at socializing with strangers. In fact, I think having that built in friend circle would make it even harder for an Aspie kid to be motivated to get out of their comfort zone and make friends with strangers and go to social events.

And that's where Mutual Adoption Clubs (MACs) come in.

I'll concede and say that different parents have different priorities. My parents, for example, couldn't care less that I was the kindest child in human history. Their priorities were straight A's and limiting water to three glasses a day at mealtimes only. And they refused to get a pet, other than a hamster. Conversely, another set of parents might not care if their kid flunks every class, and would let him drink a bucket of water if he wanted, as long as he was a kind and gentle child. And they have two dogs, three cats, an aquarium, and a flock of backyard chickens. At the same time, another child pulled straight A's effortlessly, barely drank any water, and wanted nothing to do with animals.

So, what's so bad about parents within the same MAC each taking in a more compatible child? Then, everyone gets what they want: the parents---a child who meets their expectations, the child---a comfortable home to live in. And it's not like there's a rule against contact. People can visit as often as they like. MACs specifically want families to mingle, and for kids to move in and out of different homes, to determine which one feels most comfortable. It's no different than some pre-industrial tribal societies, which had much higher levels of happiness than modern civilizations do today.

I don't know. Maybe it's my unresolved attachment disorder talking. That, or the book "Island" by Aldous Huxley just really got under my skin. One thing I will never understand: I told my therapist many times how poorly my family was treating me, so why was she so callous and unhelpful?

Maybe she was just a crappy therapist? Sorry, I cant help u there, tho i have had a couple of those myself

Aspie1, I've been reading you a long, long time, and one phrase that has never sprung to my mind for you is "kindest child in human history." I'm not saying that I don't see you as a good person, but you've also never written anything that makes me think, "that was a kind thing to do." Even your presence on this board, which does help parents understand what their Aspie children might need, comes across as being more from your need to work through your own issues than from your desire to be kind and helpful towards Aspie children. So my question to you is one I've asked before: what makes you so sure your actions were coming across as intended? Odds are extremely good that things you thought showed kindness, did not actually do so to anyone around you. That would not, of course, be an excuse for the way adults treated you and failed to understand your intentions, but it would explain why you weren't able to get the expected results from your actions.

With my son so often he perceived everything wrong and reached the wrong conclusions. The only way we figured these discrepancies out was by doing situational autopsies, step by step analyzing exactly what happened, who did what, who said what, and gathering all the surrounding data for each moment. It was quite common for my son to have read a situation one way when reality was very different. For example, he might perceive that a child had tripped him, but the autopsy would reveal that the child was sitting within his own space at his own desk never moving but my son with his hyper energy had inadvertently wandered into that child's personal space and collided with that child's body. For some reason my son thought the other child was supposed to anticipate my son's movement and get out of the way. My son never realized he was expecting that, but the autopsy revealed that is exactly what his subconscious formed his perception of the situation around. Without the autopsy I can easily see him twenty years down the road claiming that fellow students used to constantly restrain and trip him, and that the teacher would never do anything to stop it. Because we did the autopsies he knows that was never true. But in those moments, his perception of what happened was very, very real. It took a LOT of work to find out how inaccurate his perceptions often were. Because parents of ASD children see this a LOT, I don't think it is unreasonable for me to challenge your perception of interactions. It's too late to get an accurate situational autopsy, but it would be worth asking yourself if it is possible that you, as a child, were not seeing interactions accurately.

I will never understand the water limitation. I believe you on that because I can't think of how you might have misread it. That level of unnecessary control does fit the definition of emotional abuse, in my opinion. I believe you've written it started from medical advice, but none of it makes any sense. It would be possible that your parents misunderstood some actual medical advice and used it as an excuse to find one more way to impose irrational controls on your life. It would also be possible that your parents didn't INTEND to act in an overly controlling manner, but had locked into and misunderstood some advice and followed it far too rigidly under a mistaken belief that was required to be good parents. After all, even if your parents weren't ASD, they are likely to have had some ASD traits, and without self awareness about those traits they could have managed all sorts of mistakes (if you've ever read the "raised by an Apserger Parent" thread - which I do NOT really recommend any of our ASD members do, too much negative and hurtful venting -you would see how that would sometimes happen back then).

I don't know how your parents managed to find so many bad therapists. Perhaps the therapists were trying to be helpful but completely misunderstood you. Or you completely misunderstood them. Since we don't have all the information to do appropriate situational autopsies, I can only say I am sorry it was that way.

The pets are an easy one for me. Pets are a LOT of work for parents, I don't think you have any idea how much work, and they probably just did not have the bandwidth. I know I didn't, but years and years ago you convinced me to get over it and get my daughter a pet anyway. I don't regret that I did get my daughter her animals, but over the years dealing with the pets has created a LOT of strain on our family. Not every family can handle the strain or the cost, and it was probably wise for your parents to recognize they could not. Better to realize you don't have the bandwidth than to end up throwing the pet across the room (I've heard of that happening in what was supposed to be a "good" family; people break). Even now, and I'm going to vent for a moment, with my daughter officially a smart and capable adult, currently on summer break from school (although she does work 30 hours a week), she is leaving it to ME to find care for HER pet when we are traveling next week, even though I am working overtime to handle a deadline that falls while we're gone. Yeah, no, I don't have the bandwidth (which brings up the question why I'm stalling by coming here; hey, I have my bad habits, selfish ways to calm myself. Don't most people?). Anyway. I would let that one go. But I appreciate your advocacy on behalf of our kids in this area. The pets have been helpful for my daughter.

What you describe is quite different from what you were claiming would be ideal for all (autistic) kids and even so, you just seem determined to deny that not all autistic people (or children) are like you, not all (or even most!) parents like yours etc


I allowed my kids to have pets. If they asked for a specific one to be "their own" we made it clear that they won't be allowed to put the responsibility (except the financial one) of caring for it on us. It was actually a very good way to teach them responsibility.

Given the age difference between you and your sister and the general conditions you were living in (tyrannical parents, being afraid to sleep alone and others) I think a dog would have been of great help to you - definitely not a hamster though.



I was referring to emotional and mental abuse (even DW_a_mom acknowledges it!), with the water thing actually qualifying as physical abuse as it would have seriously endangered your health if you didn't "cheat". In my country, that would be enough for social services to intervene.

Your parents were controlling to a ridiculous extent, they put you down and derided you both privately and in front of others (even encouraging them to do the same!), they never defended or stood up for you, they didn't offer any praise but plenty of scolding, according to your own account they never explained any of the rules they enforced so tyrannically or their expectations and literally left you no chance whatsoever to please them or gain their approval - it's basically the definition of emotional abuse and your posts over many years are ripe with pertinent examples. Their actions destroyed your self-esteem and warped some of your views permanently it seems, as you still make major life decisions based on what they think, even if it's just to spite or try to "prove them wrong". I still maintain that you would have a better chance of being happy if you didn't allow these things to still influence you to such extent. Maybe you should do some serious reading on emotional abuse.

My few experiences with therapy were as unfortunate as yours, some people seem to have a hard time understanding that incompetence and stupidity are just as common in this profession as any other. The consequences though are a lot more severe and it's extremely unfortunate that you were forced to go through that and the duplicity and manipulation you had to learn in order to protect yourself. It still doesn't give any validity to your claim that all of them are useless quacks and denying that a lot of people (right here on this forum even) got help through therapy.

It's strange because I'm in a minority here that agrees or at least understands some of your conclusions and observations, I definitely feel A LOT of empathy and sympathy for some of your problems - yet the way you push everything to absurd extremes and the incapacity to see that your own experiences are not universal is what concerns me deeply in regards to your own (mental and emotional) well-being.

I think it would be pointless to comment on your hyperbolic claim that you were "kindest child in human history" because it seems to me like just another manifestation of your solipsistic perception/tunnel vision of the world.

[quote="BenderRodriguez"Your parents were controlling to a ridiculous extent, they put you down and derided you both privately and in front of others (even encouraging them to do the same!), they never defended or stood up for you, they didn't offer any praise but plenty of scolding, according to your own account they never explained any of the rules they enforced so tyrannically or their expectations and literally left you no chance whatsoever to please them or gain their approval - it's basically the definition of emotional abuse and your posts over many years are ripe with pertinent examples.[/quote]
This.

Not to sound insensitive but why is the water thing a big issue?
My parents had pretty specific mealplans for me and my siblings growing up so we were only allowed to eat and drink during mealtimes too. I dont see anything wrong with that.
I mean, if I had decided to go gulp down a bottle of soda before dinner not only would I have totally thrown off my sugar amount and calorie count for the day, but I most likely wouldve also filled up on soda and not been able to eat the required amount of dinner food.
Drinking water three times a day-plus maybe once more if you do a physical activity-should be enough to keep you hydrated right?

Aspie1, I certainly dont know your parents and I dont really remember everything thats been said on this thread, but I do know that sometimes kids perceive parents actions in the totally opposite way they were intended. There are many habits of my parents I can remember I didnt particularly enjoy as a kid, but I understand a lot better now as an adult. Ithink there could have been a major communication barrier between you and your parents with you simply being unable to understand/comprehend their intentions? It almost feels to me as though you still look at your parents actions the same way you did as a young kid. Perhaps you should reevaluate your memories? Maybe it wasnt really as bad as you think. I mean, if you had heard me rant about my parents even a few years ago you probably wouldve thought they were monsters.
A lot of kids dont do very well under stricter parents and higher expectations. I know a girl who's parents were suuuuper competitive about her dancing and she ended up totally cracking under the pressure at a young age because it was too much for her to always have such high expectations and pressure to win. Other kids thrive under that environment. I know it sucks that you and your parents were such a bad match, but perhaps you should look at it from their perspective? Im sure they had a reason for all their seemingly extreme actions. Maybe you just need to see things in a new light!

Ah, but if I were a bad kid, none of this would be necessary. I wouldn't need to "see things in a new light" and what-have-you. My parents would have respected me just for me being in the family, as opposed to rationing out love/approval for fulfilling their expectations. And I probably would have been allowed to drink as much water from the water cooler as I pleased. ( My town's tap water was safe to drink, but of subpar quality.)

But whatever. I found a workaround: drinking bad-tasting water out of the bathroom faucet, under the pretext of having to go into the bathroom, whether to actually go or to have privacy to adjust my underwear. The water cooler in the kitchen was off-limits to me, for all practical purposes. (My older sister could drink from it with no restrictions.)

Depending on the size of the water glasses, the temperature and level of physical activity it is an issue because it is unhealthy and potentially dangerous and there are no benefits to regimenting water intake.
It is hardly possible to drink too much water (theoretically there's a too much but people don't do it). There's no health risk or other drawback associated with being allowed to drink as much water as you want (If it's about being able to eat one's food it'd be enough to not allow drinking an hour before lunchtime, because it doesn't fill your stomach for too long).
If soft drinks are an issue parents could limit them without limiting water intake.


Are you sure he doesn't now?


That is certainly true. Some successful people would not be as successful if their parents hadn't instilled self discipline and ambition in them. Some others excel as a child and as a teen but become completely ordinary people once they can flee their parents' influence, or they switch to a field their parents look down on and may or may not excel in it. Others turn to drugs and self harm as a coping mechanism and don't fulfill their parents expectations.

Either way, not all parents who instill strict rules make rules that help their children succeed. The classic abusive person may even change the rules or add new ones without prior notice, just to make it impossible to follow them and be able to punish. Even if they don't, some rules can do more harm than good to the child's success, not to mention current and future happiness.
It is not everyone's life goal to become as successful and superficially flawless as they can be either. Therefore it is debatable if the goal to make one's child exceptionally successful always justifies the means. Some of these ambitious parents could see it if their methods are not working for their child and some don't have their child's well being in mind. They care about their own reputation instead, about having another thing they can use to show off.


Everyone has a reason for what they do, but not every reason is justifying. Abuse exists. It may help to try to understand his parents, but understanding doesn't have to mean agreeing with. Maybe he even understands them well and his negative opinions on parenting come from an over-generalization of his parents to all others.

Because my parents pushed the message that people in charge are always right, I let my bosses get away with a lot more than I should have. So I was miserable at most of my jobs; I used to go through a whole bottle of liquor in a week, and in more severe cases, had suicidal thoughts. Shortly before I turned 30, I had a turning point, started standing my ground a lot more, lost my shame in taking psychiatric medications, and my career became a lot less miserable.

Come to think of it, my upbringing is what probably made it easy for me to embrace my former escort habit. I was basically buying love with with supplicating behavior and perfect grades, and the "price" kept changing. With buying love already being second nature to me, it wasn't a big stretch to drop $300 for an hour of "me love you long time". Not to mention the sneaking around I learned as a child; I used it for dodging the police while traveling to and from her hotel. Not what they wanted, I'm sure.


This is what I was getting at 11 pages ago. It seems like good kids are more likely to be seen as doll-like possessions to show off, in a "Look what I built!" kind of way. This is especially true with grades; ambitious parents don't care about the emotional costs of their child's straight A's, as long as they can tell themselves and others that their child is a straight-A student.

Why is that? Shouldn't good kids be rewarded for being good? Not with silly superficial praise, but actually given an incentive to be good. As opposed to using goodness as a license to ramp up expectations to impossible levels, and having their wishes and preferences steamrolled over. After all, a good kid can't retaliate the way a bad kid can.

I very much disagree with your conclusion that if you were a bad kid none of this would have happened.

I think your parents saw you as a “bad kid.” I am NOT saying you were one, but your parents actions tend to indicate they either saw you as one, or had a need to pretend you were one. It’s part of the emotional abuse pattern, that helps the abuser justify their own actions, their own need to take out their negative emotions on someone else, by creating standards that can’t met so there is an excuse to let out their anger. It often is completely unintentional; the subconscious drives it and contorts reality to make it fit.

It is also possible it was none of the above on their side, but because your needs and their view of your needs were completely out of sync, their sincere efforts to be good parents ended up being emotionally abusive to you. I do believe emotional abuse can arise from good intentions, and sadly the negative effect on the child is just as harmful.

Or, you’ve learned the patterns of emotional abuse so well that you are contorting your own perceptions of your parents and all parents to feed your own need to have something to be angry about.

I can’t tell you which of the above it is, but I will suggest that doing a little research on emotional abuse and what causes it might provide some useful insights for you. I would love for you to be able to make peace with your past, your current emotions, and all the ways life and adults of authority have failed you. I say make peace for your sake, not because anyone should be let off the hook for what they’ve done. YOU need the peace.

Finally, I don’t think I ever realized the water situation involved a water cooler. Perhaps their issue there was money. Water coolers are expensive. Your sister may simply not have had the need to drink as much or spill as much so her use bothered them less. Just a possibility. I’ve never had anything but tap water at home.

As for rewards for being good, life is full of them, but they come without the label of being a reward for being good. A child that does well in school will get to experience an exciting and enriching college (my son loves his). A child that behaves well in public will get taken to restaurants, theaters, and enjoy all sorts of fun and enriching experiences (we specifically choose such outings based on what our kids liked, it was never just dragging them along because we wanted to go). And so on. We never said “this is your reward.” But we have said, “ we won’t go there until you have shown you know how to behave there.” The doors are open for people who know how to be “good.” “Good” isn’t being a doormat, but it does involve knowing the right place and the right time to stand up for yourself. A good parent helps the child learn the difference. I realize you perceive life as acting in the opposite, but I think you are very very wrong. I am in a family of “good” people. We are widely perceived that way. While it won’t make me rich, and didn’t make finding my spouse go any faster, it does make life very kind to me.

There's "bad" as in "failing to meet expectations", and there's objectively bad. It's the objectively bad kids who get more respect from their parents. (I know you told me that wasn't true, but my observations beg to differ, so bear with me.) The ones who wreak havoc in public, flunk every class, bully weak kids, curse out adults, disrupt class, throw or break stuff, and get detentions. I wasn't referring to "bad" kids who don't like French onion soup, get a C in math, or aren't brave enough. Like I said before, I tried to act "bad", like deliberately underachieving in school, but it backfired on me. In order to truly garner my family's respect as a child, I would have had to become so bad, it would make Operation Shock and Awe in Iraq look like a Disney World parade.

I think you do quite a lot of unconciuos effort to avoid facing that your parents most likely would never respect you, no matter you did or did not. Because of them, not you.

Did you ever think that your attempts at becoming a "bad kid" was the reason your parents behaved this way? I mean, deliberately underachieving in school would certainly end up in punishment (in my house at least) and perhaps you thought that these consequences were unfair or something and needed to act even worse and thus the circle continued? I cant think of a worse way to gain your parents respect than to deliberately behave in a way they wouldnt approve of.
And I still believe that those kids that are truly badly behaved do not actually have true respect from the parents, teachers, peers, or anyone really. If anything, those kids are the ones who have the least respect.
Lets face it, I think you and your parents were just incompatible and you were unlikely to ever really live up to their expectations for you no matter how good (or bad ) you acted. Thats unfortunate, and Im truly sorry that you had to grow up that way. (but i still think ur bad kid theory is kinda nuts)

People don't normally think of it this way, but deliberately underachieving is a form of cheating. There is objective cheating, intended to falsely improve one's performance, such as copying from a test, plagiarism and use of performance enhancing drugs in athletic contests. You will be caught and the repercussions are severe. However, if you deliberately underperform, you are cheating yourself because you didn't learn what you were supposed to learn and you deprived yourself of knowledge. The repercussions of this are not as swift, but they are long lasting.