My Son is doing well...why am I worried?
22 Feb 2010, 6:19 pm
I'm looking at it from the standpoint of someone who was socially isolated growing up and was not in the habit of seeking out people, yet still had family around so there was not complete isolation; but then later in life, living on your own, you are completely isolated, largely b/c you never learned the habits, skills, etc of getting comfortable with seeking out people to do things with as a kid. This can be a dangerous thing, and I myself can speak from experience, i've got a long road ahead of me of trying to break out of years and years and years of bad habits that started at an early age. Now, if as an adult a person is fine with social isolation, that's another story. But my guess is, people SAY they are fine wiht it, but really mean that they've had bad experiences in the past and don't want the socializing, but they would want it if it could come easier for them. Which is why i say, it's helpful if you get into the habit as a kid of taking initiative with people and forming friendships. ESPECIALLY if it doesn't come easy.
To me, not getting picked on much while in school and having a basic understanding of the rules of society sufficiently as you say is not enough to stave off loneliness and unhappiness later in life. For some it might be, but I wouldn't count on it being the majority.
22 Feb 2010, 7:08 pm
There is encouraging and then there is pushing ... that lovely fine line we constantly walk as parents. Different children will have different reasons for choosing not to socialize outside of school, which is why I say, TALK TO YOUR CHILD.
Middle School kids are not good ones to learn social skills from. At this age, there is so much jockeying for position, and such a complete emphasis on conformity, that pushing social relationships where they are not desired can backfire. My son has long had two good friends, and one is causing him a lot of pain right now, and I would just as soon skip that part until the other child has found his place in the world and realized that he WANTS to be friends with my son. This "I'm your friend" today followed by teasing him the next day as he tries to build ties with other kids just isn't worth it. My son feels tied to this kid because they like the same things (his other friend has very different interests so they rarely do things together anymore, but that child is very secure in his social position and will defend my son), and there aren't many kids who do, but the other child seems to believe he can "sell" kids on his interests provided he isn't burdened by being grouped in with the nerds. Well, that other kid is wrong, but he is going to have to learn that the hard way, it is becoming apparent.
Among other things, it is possible that your son has observed these negative social interactions and made a choice to limit his exposure to them. I'm not convinced that is a bad thing. My son's speech teacher told us he did that in Middle School - simply decided there was no winning socially, so he wasn't going to have any friends. Just for Middle School. Once he got to High School he decided kids were stable enough to deal with. As an adult I would say the man is quite socially capable.
Now, my son is being forced by his outside activity to learn a certain amount of social skill. He is in Boy Scouts and despite my reservations he has been made a patrol leader, and he is struggling to learn how to lead. He likes the boys in his patrol, but isn't close to any of them, as they are mostly younger than he is. Leadership isn't natural to him at all, so he most certainly is being pushed, and it is a challenge he accepted on his own. He has goals in life, and he knows he has to learn to deal with people, regardless of how annoying they are to him (and that is most definitely how he sees most kids - as annoying).
You have to remember that all these interactions are incredibly stressful for kids like ours. It takes my son DAYS to come down from any social conflict. Meanwhile, he will struggle at home with every tiny little task, and struggle in school as well. The exhaustion level from each conflict is intense, and something I know I never experienced myself. For kids like ours, it is hard work. That needs to be factored in, as well, and balanced against everything else going on in their lives.
I really don't believe you can FORCE an AS child to learn social skills, but you can SELL them on the idea until they work on it willingly. You are always going to have to keep an eye out for it all to backfire, because it can be really stressful, so you want to be sure that your child is communicating openly and honestly with you about the things you are suggesting, and how he is dealing with them. Nudges are good; pushing isn't.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
22 Feb 2010, 7:30 pm
I'm looking at it from the standpoint of someone who was socially isolated growing up and was not in the habit of seeking out people, yet still had family around so there was not complete isolation; but then later in life, living on your own, you are completely isolated, largely b/c you never learned the habits, skills, etc of getting comfortable with seeking out people to do things with as a kid. This can be a dangerous thing, and I myself can speak from experience, i've got a long road ahead of me of trying to break out of years and years and years of bad habits that started at an early age. Now, if as an adult a person is fine with social isolation, that's another story. But my guess is, people SAY they are fine wiht it, but really mean that they've had bad experiences in the past and don't want the socializing, but they would want it if it could come easier for them. Which is why i say, it's helpful if you get into the habit as a kid of taking initiative with people and forming friendships. ESPECIALLY if it doesn't come easy.
To me, not getting picked on much while in school and having a basic understanding of the rules of society sufficiently as you say is not enough to stave off loneliness and unhappiness later in life. For some it might be, but I wouldn't count on it being the majority.
I'm fine with my lack of social life, and I find it quite insulting that you're trying to say that I really wish to be sociable but won't admit it to myself.
What makes you think you can presume you know what goes on in someone's head better than they know themselves?
If your son wants to socialise and needs a bit of a push then fine, but some people are just not interested. It's nothing to do with fear or bad experiences (unless you count intense boredom); it's to do with not getting anything out of social situations.
_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I
22 Feb 2010, 7:59 pm
Who am I,
I'm not trying to say anything about you personally. I don't know you. Probably 95% of the members of this website are guilty of stating their own opinions on human behavior that would be virtually impossible to prove empirically. My own take on it is that people have a tendency (myself included) to protect themselves and their ego. It's the old, "you're not firing me, I quit" response. Those people don't reject me, I reject them, etc. And I get that. I've been guilty of it too. If you are fine with your lack of a social life then that's fine. I really like how DW Mom is putting it tho.
Also Who am I, I regret that you would be insulted by any of my comments, but here is the irony; the reason I decided to post on this thread to begin with is because I was personally put off by some of the responses to the OP and found them to be condescending. Maybe the OP didn't personally feel that way, but I sure would have. His concern (and the premise of that concern) is completely valid. It's not right to portray this parent or any parent as someone who is just worrying needlessly.
I don't understand why this is a problem. If you don't need social contact, you don't need it.
Well, let me throw it right back at you... you're not the parent here, so how can you presume to know that this would not be a problem? Also, maybe as an adult you have come to the conclusion that you truly don't need it, but I think as a 12 year old kid, the world makes much less sense at that age, and it's important for parents to help their kids to establish baseline social experiences. Even if you are the rarest of exceptions and a complete absence of social contact is not a detriment to your physical health, it is still helpful to learn basic people skills outside of school. I love the Scouts example DW Mom mentions. I never did Scouts or anything like that, but it sounds like it could be a very beneficial thing. Later in life, most people will have to get a job at some point, some may even require interaction with people. If you are always socially isolated and never venture away from that comfort zone, then how can you expect to be successful in positions like these? It seems like it more difficult than it has to be on a person.
22 Feb 2010, 11:18 pm
I'm not trying to say anything about you personally. I don't know you. Probably 95% of the members of this website are guilty of stating their own opinions on human behavior that would be virtually impossible to prove empirically. My own take on it is that people have a tendency (myself included) to protect themselves and their ego. It's the old, "you're not firing me, I quit" response. Those people don't reject me, I reject them, etc. And I get that. I've been guilty of it too. If you are fine with your lack of a social life then that's fine. I really like how DW Mom is putting it tho.
Also Who am I, I regret that you would be insulted by any of my comments, but here is the irony; the reason I decided to post on this thread to begin with is because I was personally put off by some of the responses to the OP and found them to be condescending. Maybe the OP didn't personally feel that way, but I sure would have. His concern (and the premise of that concern) is completely valid. It's not right to portray this parent or any parent as someone who is just worrying needlessly.
I don't understand why this is a problem. If you don't need social contact, you don't need it.
Well, let me throw it right back at you... you're not the parent here, so how can you presume to know that this would not be a problem? Also, maybe as an adult you have come to the conclusion that you truly don't need it, but I think as a 12 year old kid, the world makes much less sense at that age, and it's important for parents to help their kids to establish baseline social experiences. Even if you are the rarest of exceptions and a complete absence of social contact is not a detriment to your physical health, it is still helpful to learn basic people skills outside of school. I love the Scouts example DW Mom mentions. I never did Scouts or anything like that, but it sounds like it could be a very beneficial thing. Later in life, most people will have to get a job at some point, some may even require interaction with people. If you are always socially isolated and never venture away from that comfort zone, then how can you expect to be successful in positions like these? It seems like it more difficult than it has to be on a person.
Ok, I may have worded it wrong. I didn't understand why it was necessarily a problem. Of course, as the parent, the OP knows their child better than I do. However, people who need social contact tend to project that need onto everyone, and it's possible that that's what the OP has done- thinking that because isolation would make them lonely, it will make their son lonely.
There are jobs that require minimal social interaction. Even in jobs that require some people contact, it's possible to get by on a few basic scripts- it's not like you're spending hours with each customer entertaining them.
I know from experience that after a certain point, socialising doesn't make working with people any easier- on the contrary, it just drains much-needed energy.
I also think that explictly teaching basic social rules can be just as effective as throwing a child into a social situation where they have no clue what to do. The latter is an excellent way to have bad social experiences for someone who lacks social intuition and may have no clue where they're going wrong. Instruction in a safe environment seems to be a good way to give skills that can later be put into practice in jobs and so forth.
I'm not trying to say that the OP is incorrect; I'm just trying to present a different perspective on things.
I hope my orginal comment wasn't seen as condescending, because it was not meant that way. It was "I don't understand" not "I don't understand, therefore the OP is stupid".
I probably took your comment too literally as meaning "everyone" rather than "this is a tendency I've noticed".
_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I
23 Feb 2010, 12:26 am
I also think that explictly teaching basic social rules can be just as effective as throwing a child into a social situation where they have no clue what to do. The latter is an excellent way to have bad social experiences for someone who lacks social intuition and may have no clue where they're going wrong. Instruction in a safe environment seems to be a good way to give skills that can later be put into practice in jobs and so forth.
In large part I think I agree with you here. Whether it's the parent providing this explicit direction, or a professional, I think it would be helpful to provide certain distinctions and "what to expect" type of guidelines for the child to help them ease into it. I think most people crave connection (all of us on wrong planet signed up in part to try and connect with people after all). It's just at that age (and I was the same way), if it doesn't come naturally, then I think it's understandable for a kid to not want to socialize. Which makes explicit instruction even more important I think.
And I should also say that I more so found some of these other comments immediately following the OP to be condescending and that's what made me chime in on this thread. Now, maybe they didn't intend for it to come off like that (i have no idea) but to me they did. Saying that the parent's concern was odd to be coming on here, saying that he just worries too much. Kind of like when you see the doctor with legit concerns, but they just brush them off. "oh, you worry too much!" etc. But they are very legit.
23 Feb 2010, 12:47 pm
This is an interesting discussion that occurs often on this forum.
I think it boils down to three kinds of people in this world, aspie or not, but sometimes it's exxagerated with Aspies . . . and the three kinds are those who love socializing and want to be around other people all of the time, those who are ok with socializing but need their "alone time" as well, and those who really would just be better off not having to be around people.
My younger son fits in to the middle group -- he likes people, but if he's involved in a large group socializing, he needs to wind down and rest afterwards. He does like to have people over, and he will be lonely if he doesn't have friends over for a long time. His problem is that he honestly doesn't even THINK of inviting people over -- it just doesn't occur to him.
He has a friend down the road, however, who definitely fits on the spectrum (although undiagnosed), and this boy would be very happy to never have friends over. He would rather interact with his computer and not have any competition or confrontation with human beings. I don't think that there's much one could do to change this boy's mind and "push" him into socializing. He just doesn't care to.
If the OP's son fits into the latter example, there isn't much to be done. And that's ok -- this type of person doesn't want to be around other people, and is content to be alone. On the other hand, if you have a child who WANTS to be around other people, but doesn't know how to fit in -- then arranging settings where socialization can occur is a good thing. It shouldn't be often, but sporadic situations with other kids -- or situations where your whole family invites another family over for dinner and game night (or something like this) could be helpful.
