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Ok, is this a joke too, or are you being serious? LOL. Do you really think that "just shy" usually is a sign of Asperger's?

Well, yes. Maybe some of those people have a few AS traits ... hard to say with a spectrum where AS ends, and "normal" begins. I would classify my daughter as "just shy" in that she is clearly different from her AS brother, but still has social difficulties. She may have other impairments of a different name, or some AS genes but not all ... that we are still trying to work out. But I'm pretty sure she is not AS, and I've given this a lot of though over the years. She misses so many of the traits that come accross as pretty universal after reading on a forum like this for so many years. I, myself, was always shy, but it's pretty questionable as to if I could be diagnosed AS (I've done the on-line tests and classed on most as NT, but actually scored lower on the eyes test than most AS do - I was totally flustered to not get to see the rest of the face). I do see things that my husband and son - both of whom identify as AS - cannot. But it doesn't mean I grew up without barriers and with perfect social understanding. So, yes, I do think there is something that is not AS and is not the complete image of NT as those here see it, either.

Thank you. That's why I am trying to get more information-- I want to understand this boy so badly and not judge him for things that seem so obvious for me. His father is also very frustrated with him and I don't want to see more damage done!

Good point.

In some situations it may also be the lacking of a script. I know that if my son assumes things need to follow route A, and he is forced off that route, that he freezes. He was supposed to follow route A, and trying to imagine route AB is alien to him. He can't do it in the moment. He needs time to plan for AB. My husband is similar.

I do the same thing; I have to force myself to start on new projects or assignments (unfamiliar ones). It's not that I can't think for myself, it's just like I like having checkpoints to go by so I can gauge if I'm actually doing it right. Once I do it with guidance once (or get guidance beforehand) it's fine.

The way he is thinking, it makes much more sense just to let someone else walk him through it. My thoughts are "Why would I figure it out on my own when other people can show me? I know I can do it on my own if I had to, but I don't have to."

Awe, hugs, it is so hard to see kids and parents run up against each other, and know that it is keeping the child from reaching his potential. I have to say that discovering my son was AS was like a light going on in our house, it made so much difference in how we handled, well, everything.

On an earlier post, I'm not sure how old your son is (your daughter is apparently similar in age to your boyfriend's son), but remember that as they near middle school, and into high school, girls "mature" at a vastly quicker rate than boys do. Science shows that girls brains are fully grown by 16 - as is pretty much all of them - and boys by 25. Go to a middle school and you see what look like young women and ... boys. Point being, it is impossible to judge "normal" for your boyfriend's son by your daughter. Girls and boys get to be very, very different. I have a 12 year old AS boy and a 9 year old (probably) NT daughter, and everything about their lives at age 9 is completely different, with quite a bit of it being due more to boy v. girl than AS v. NT. Just to complicate things

I wish you a lot of luck on this journey to help your boyfriend's son. It is really great of you to wish to make life better for him, but you are going to have to sell the father.

FYI, one hurdle you may find there, is that looking at a diagnosis for a child often forces parents to look back at themselves. For some, it is a revelation. For others, it makes them fight tooth and nail against the idea for their child. AS is believed to be genetic and, even if it weren't, parents see their children as reflections on themselves. Some people just can't confront anything that would change how they view their own childhood, hurdles, and current life - and hearing "AS" for a child tends to make them do just that.

After reading a lot of threads on this site, I am actually close to convinced that my boyfriend probably has asperger's as well. His lack of emotional responses and ability to be emotional may actually be explainable. Thank you all for your help on this! I plan on reading more and hopefully becoming more involved in this site!

Regarding "just shy":

I'd certainly agree that the diagnostic cutoff is arbitrary.


I'm curious - could you be more specific about what those traits are?

The obvious one is that she does not have sensory issues or sensory related meltdowns, although I suppose that is technically co-morbid. In fact, I wouldn't say she has meltdowns in the typcial AS fashion at all. My son cannot be reasoned with in a meltdown. My daughter, however, throws traditional temper tantrums and will usually go out of them if she suddenly gets her way. My daughter notices and talks about social cues - the way people look at her, body language, and so on. Is she reading those right? Good question. She does not have any pragmatic speech issues; her conversational interchange is very appropriate and easy. She seems to have pretty solid theory of mind, but struggles with executive function - I'm leaning towards ADD with her, similar to my sister's ADD, and my daughter seems to feel that may be accurate. She sees herself as different from her brother in so many ways. He does this baby act when he's feeling insecure; it totally irritates and embarasses her (but, then again, it embarasses my husband, too). She isn't tied to logic at all, but has watched her brother and learned to play it when it gets her the result she wants (which she has admitted with a sly look). She knows that acting way "a" will get her the results she wants and, so, she'll act way "a." My son will have it all messed up and think he should act way "b," when way "a" would have worked, but end up acting way "c" because he doesn't understand how he's coming across. Lots of things like that mark the difference between them, but she does feel she may have some AS traits, while not being AS. Both are quite smart, but my daughter's is much more consistent and without the strong areas of complete deficit (and points of utter brillance) that my son has.

I would say the sensory issues, meltdowns, pragmatic speech issues, logic, theory of mind, severe gifts and deficits, and way-off interpretations of social interactions are pretty universal for AS.

That will make things interesting, if he is AS as well. You will hear a lot of, "but I did that, too, so it's normal!" Walk very lightly with this theory, if you want to keep this relationship (which I would assume you do, or why would you bother caring so much about his child?). People can react quite negatively; I've seen it quite a bit through these forums.

Hm, that actually seems to be quite a valid list, though some of the things might be described quite differently by an aspie. I would have said that "sensory issues, occasional cognitive overload, literal understanding abilities, logic, assumption of goodwill, strongly nonneurotypical traits, and sensible expectations of social interactions" are what are universal for Asperger's. But yes, it's the same list.

Given your description of your daughter, especially the pragmatic use of logic, I agree it doesn't sound lke she's an aspie. On the other hand, I'm extremely surprised if she's much more shy than her peers.

I'm surprised that you think you are shy as well. You impress me as quite outgoing. The asperger's like traits that I have noticed in your posts are positive ones - ability to understand and and state things literally, logic, and assumption of goodwill, if I were to pick from the above list. If I may say so, you strike me as unusually clear thinking for a - er, I mean, as an unusually clear thinking neurotypical.

As an update, I talked to my bf at length last night and showed him a lot of stuff that I have been reading. He actually looked at them and said "that's me!" To my surprise, he was actually quite open to the idea and realized, maybe for the first time, that I want to help. He is concerned, even, that he may not be able to help his son because he doesn't see any of the behaviors as different.

I had the most wonderful day yesterday-- I feel like a huge weight has been lifted!

Glad to hear this! That was my reaction when I first was diagnosed: "Wow, all this stuff makes sense!" I predict an Asperger's mini-obsession from him soon; I know I read everything I could find on the subject.

If he starts getting too concerned, remind him that you're going to be there for an outside point of view.

I only said the first sentence of this. Psychohist said the rest. But I wasn't joking about the part I said.

In my opinion, I think it would be strong to say "just shy" is usually a sign of aspergers. For myself, I have been labeled shy my whole life by others... so in that case, yes I guess it would be a sign of aspergers. On the other hand, I don't feel shy. To me a shy person is someone who is afraid of people & social interaction. I'm not afraid of these things... just not very good at them. So, in my opinion the "fearful/bashful" definition of shyness is not a sign of asperger's (...maybe social anxiety disorder?) but the "socially awkward" definition of shyness most likely is a sign of asperger's... if that makes sense.

I'm glad to hear you had a productive day. My son & I were both diagnosed last year, from that perspective there is what I think is some helpful advice for you in this thread. (and it's true what you said... my husband sees my son as much more of a problem/different than I do... for the most part I don't see a problem with a lot of his "behaviors" because I feel he's a lot like me & going to have difficulties but be fine as he grows up... your boyfriend's son is lucky his dad can relate to him (if they both have asperger's) not all kids with asperger's are so lucky.

This is great news! Thanks for the update.

I think what Leigsha said about shyness is a pretty good jumping point for this: "On the other hand, I don't feel shy. To me a shy person is someone who is afraid of people & social interaction. I'm not afraid of these things... just not very good at them." My AS son is fearless - he doesn't care what people think of him, and he is drawn to be social, so he just puts himself out there. But, yes, he isn't very good at it. Living in a community where quirky is pretty well shrugged off, he hasn't been teased too much - at least not that he has noticed - and, so, has never developed any fear. But my daughter is aware of every tiny eye roll and she cares. Which creates fear. Fear creates shyness. She likes to be where she feels comfortable and safe, and knows that what she says and does won't be criticized. How she is viewed by others is VERY important to her. She feels no need to be popular and attend large, loud events; but she does have a strong need to be viewed in a positive light. She won't change who she is to get that, but she will be careful as to who she reveals herself to.

Somewhere in my late teens I learned to just jump out there and not worry about how people saw it. That would be when my strong personality came into evidence. Before that, only my parents knew that side of me (my dad thought of it as this little devious thing I did - act all shy but quietly find a way to get what I wanted - but that interpretation misses the core point). Lol, my daughter does EXACTLY the same thing. Anyway, once I started pushing myself out there I also discovered that people seemed to respect what I had to say. That encouraged me to continue. And so on. It was fed by the input I received back. I wouldn't call myself shy today, although I have my moments, but I was definitely shy as a child, and universally considered by adults to be. But I fought it. I did band and cheerleading and other activities that forced me to push out of it. My career helped a lot, too - the funny thing about accounting is that it attracts shy people, but in order to be successful you have to be a networking star. So, some firms actually TEACH you how to break out, speak publicly, and network. That was a really good experience for me.

And thanks for the compliment. Many NT's actually are logical and assume goodwill. They are the ones that taught me not to be afraid, after all. You learn to look at the negative people as an exception, and to understand that the negativity tends to come from a place of pain or missunderstanding. That lets you blow off any offense; it wasn't personal.