2+E and at the end of my rope

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Those are good ideas, just ones we are already implementing. There is a fabulous book you can get from Amazon called Calculus for Kids by a guy named Cohen. It's a really fun kids intro to calculus and good for anybody who wants to see the beauty in mathy stuff. Kids helped develop the book.

The problem with the usual workbooks are that they are just more of the same. If my kids work a few grade levels ahead doing the usual prescribed stuff they end up in worse shape when they get to that grade in school because there is nothing new. We look for things that are different. For instance, Little Guy loves human anatomy. He has college textbooks he studies. He is also interested in greek mythology and learning the ancient languages they were first written/spoken in. There is a college that can do customized programs for kids with mentors etc by correspondence and can make a course for him like that. Unfortunately he'd have to do it after school, and is so exhausted from being forced to do inappropriate work at school he doesn't have the mental energy to do it then. He spends alternate weekends and half his summers at his Dad's. so those times are limited. He will be going to College for Kids for a week this summer, which will help, but that's one week out of 52 he gets good instruction.

My problem isn't what to do after school, but how can he survive during school.

I find it very heartening that some child somewhere in the world is actually having a good education.

It sounds like you're not in the USA, and that may be why. Schools here are extremely broken. The WHO did a huge project and ranked schools worldwide based on student achievement. They included every nation regardless of level of economic development and they didn't just include people priveledged enough to get a formal education which isn't always universally available. The USA came in 13th from the bottom, yet #1 for how much money we spend. If you don't live here it might be hard to fathom the level of brokeness of our system. There are pockets where things are better, but it's mind boggling how bad it is. Not all Americans realize it. They know their kids school is better than the school up the road, so they think they are well off. We've dumbed down our system to make it more accessible and fair. All children are expected to move at the pace of the slowest, without a lot of wiggle room.

Thanks for listening guys. I am normally a lot more sweet natured than this, but I truly am at the end of my rope. Last night I got yet another call from the school system explaining why they couldn't talk to me about the issues. I call about once a week, and get a response maybe three times a year, and it's always the same "Yes, we need to talk, but we can't until after X event."

She can,and she did. When he tried to do stuff like that, which he does spontaneously because it's fun, she made fun of him. She had the whole class calling him "weirdo" and "freak" because she was intimidated by his brains. He's really cute and funny, he never comes off as "know it all.." He's the non-Aspie child. His love of learning is so delightful that most people are just drawn into it and he ends up teaching the class. Up until this year he's been the most popular kid in the school. As he prances down the hall everybody says "Hey Name Deleted, what's up Name Deleted" even the older kids.

This school year is over for us. The only thing he learned in school is that the world can be an ugly and hurtful place where people resent you just for having a good time. He doesn't realize how smart he is, he's just having fun using his brain because it feels good. Now he knows it's not safe to do that at school.

At the start of the year they gave the IOWA test for his gradelevel so the teachers could see where to instruct more. He aced it (99.9percentile across the board) and that's before they taught the stuff on the test. Based on that they said they'd let him work independantly in class on higher level stuff, but what they said and what they did were not the same. This teacher made him sit all day reading books several grade levels below his level and doing tedious repetetive math worksheets of the same calculations again and again. This lady was out to get him. I went to the Principal several times and got nowhere.

This is my child who was Dx'd as PDD-NOS and was non verbal, then in first grade just, wham, started talking and by this year his tests show no sign of any kind of ASD. He's not NT but he doesn't fit any labels.

i have no beef with the school system, i think for the most part it does its job. what the school is going to do for your child depends a lot on the individual school and the individual teacher. the problem is that its job isnt to give children a "good" education, and certainly not educate them to their ability, but rather to get them to a mandated minimum required level of education, and to do this for all students equally. for average kids, thats usually enough, but if your child is at all above average, it falls short. our job, as parents, is to make sure they get the opportunity not to meet state standards, but to excel, to reach towards their potential, and we do this for ONE child, ours, and to heck with the rest.

our job as parents, and the school systems job, are usually at odds.

i would suggest you really speak to the teachers who are available for the next school year. this year is a wash, its next year you need to focus on. talk to those teachers, let them know who your kids are, and see which teacher is most willing, or even excited, to work with your kid. be open and honest, admit that your child is going to be a lot of extra work! smart kids are, but the rewards in seeing them achieve is worth it to many teachers. if you remain in the same school, this is really going to be your best option. you need to get a teacher willing to work with you, not working against you like you have now.

one thing to remember is that teachers are people, and a whole lot of them are average intelligence, or even below average. you may find many of them scared of or intimidated by teaching really gifted children. their desire will not be to challenge your child and see him grow academically, but rather to lessen the gap. these are the teachers you must avoid, and it sounds like you got one of them this year already.

do consider moving to a different area, whether thats into a different school district or a whole other state. i previously lived in washington and was fairly happy with the normal public school my son attended. then we moved across the country to michigan, a place where the public school down the road is not nearly as good. the main difference however is that where we are now, there are public charter and gifted schools, and the county has an open enrollment. schools that are free because they are public, but are for gifted students only and you have to test to get in. and the open enrollment means we can put our kids into almost any other public school in the county, even if not in the same school district as we live. we got my oldest into a gifted school, it means no bus, so we drop him off and pick up him at a school 6 miles away, but he is doing the regular classes he would get anywhere, plus 1.5 hrs a day of his chosen concentration (his is theatre, they also offer math/science, dance, keyboard/voice, visual arts, and language arts/global studies). now, i really dont like this area nearly as much as washington, in fact i pretty much hate it, but the opportunities for my kids are much greater due to economy and available education. so here i stay.

DW,

Your ideas are good ones, but we've done it all. I've got to work so homeschooling isn't an option. I used to do it, and loved it, but we have to eat and I have to work. We've explored all the other local school options and there isn't one. Moving would be nice, but not financially feasible. A lot of this could be dealt with if we had money, which we don't.

You all are giving great ideas, it's just that I've been doing all this so long that I've already thought of them and tried them.

I've never expected the school to create an optimal environment for my kids, though you are so right, that is where a lot of parents with exceptional kids get hung up. I'm trying to get enough accomodation that my kids can get through the day in tact. That's kind of what my eldest gets. He doesn't get all the services he should, but they do enough to get him by. They have a few resources to spread around a lot of kids. I'm thrilled with how they are handling him even though it's far from optimal. Little Guy should be doing advanced work in all subjects, but I'm only asking for Math. That should be enough to break up the boredom so he can cope with regular work the rest of the time. It's not optimal, but enough to get him by. Middle son should be in a seperate classroom all day, somewhere quiet. I'm only asking for quiet lunch so he can have enough of a break to get by. He at least had teachers who tried this year. They couldn't do anything to help him but at least they were caring and sympathetic. Since I can't guarantee his teachers will always be sympathetic or capable I want an IEP, but unless they start misbehaving or flunking they won't get it.

Our local school district does class assignment by lottery. You get who you get and you can't move, period. Without an IEP requiring specific services not available at your school but available at another you can't move. Interviewing and selecting teachers is not allowed. Neither of my younger two are allowed an IEP despite enough stuff on their Psych evals that they should by law have accomodations. If I had money I could hire a lawyer and force it, but that might backfire on them if the teachers then take it out on them.

If we could move to Nevada these two could likely qualify for The Davidson Institute, which is a public school that serves the top 99.9percentile. They might not get in, as they are right on the borderline of that schools standards, but they'd have a shot at it. Unfortunately my husbands retirement pay and my teaching salary isn't enough. Yes, I'm a teacher too, but just part time as a sub since Eldest Son's needs are too profound for me to work full time.

I don't hate teachers or schools, but the systems are set up to fail.

I have to back Kiley on what she says about our national school system. It is hurting profusely. Things just in our area...

Cuts cuts cuts.... public school funding and jobs are being slashed left and right while the people in charge increase spending on charter schools. My son's aide won't have the same job next year. For that matter, I may have to switch schools because they won't have coverage for him next year.

Stagnancy: Our system needs to evolve for the increase in our special needs kids. The numbers are going up astronomically because of the level of hereditary conditions (and more), next year they will increase in my son's school to double what they have now (but the jobs won't be replaced).

I've gone to bat and talked with school systems across our country. I developed and educational and suggestion packet. It got ignored. As far as I can tell, they weren't even interesting at a second glance at the facts I presented. They could have at least had their own professionals take a look. I sent that packet to every state level education department in the country.

It seems to me, at their level, unless it affects their pay, they don't care. If changes aren't made nationwide, people and generations will suffer for it.

for the middle aspie, his diagnosis should get him an iep, and that should get him quiet accomodations. it sounds like they are refusing to give him an iep despite his diagnosis? have you requested an IEE? that should be your right if you do not agree with their iep evaluation and the school district has to pay for it.

for the youngest, is it possible to get him moved up in grade level? its not the best option, that would be a gifted program that challenges him and teaches to his level, but if thats not available, would they let him skip a grade or two? just trying to come up with some ideas that are perhaps unconventional but may serve him better than remaining where hes at. or perhaps directed study? where he does work at the same time as his classmates, but its separate work at his level? teachers dont like that one unfortunately, makes more work for them.

if i were you, i would go all mama bear on their butts =) dont call the gifted coordinator, GO TO HER OFFICE =) show up on their doorstep. take copies of all your sons test results. contact the schools councilor or social worker. see if your school has a "pupil service team" or something similar, where you can talk to principal, teacher, social worker, psychologist all together.

i am having my own frustrations with the school system and ieps this year, so i understand. and where we are in the school year, they REALLY do not want to be returning your calls or doing anything else. both schools i am dealing with for this type of thing have pushed back any more evals/mtgs until september. i pushed some things through, the rest i am going to let wait until fall. at this point my kids are out of school so continuing to push wont do much to help them anyway.

but come september... its mama bear time.

Wildeman,

Sounds like you're doing a lot of what I'm doing. I've gone to bat for other people's kids, done the research found solutions that wouldn't cost money...nothing matters. I know the regs and laws so I made sure any suggestion I made would be compliant. Like this math thing for my son. Stanford has a fourth grade program for kids like him. It's done by distance. The teachers are accredited and have the gifted certification (required to calculate the weight of instruction, which is an admin thing I shouldn't have to know about, but do). Kids are allowed 10 hours of advanced instruction per week until sixth grade, when they can have more. FOCUS takes five of those, leaving five my son could use for this math program. The program is compliant with CA state laws which overlap our state laws enough that it's also compliant with GA laws. It teaches the right things in the required ways. Using this program for my son would cost the school nothing because I would pay. I would be paying for the teacher so they would not have to take gifted weighted hours away from another student to do it. My son is a natural teacher and the other children's experienced would be enriched by his doing this. Nobody would loose anything or be inconvenienced in any way and all county, state and national laws, regulations, guidelines etc would be complied with. I've done the legwork. I've got it all documented. All she has to do is read it, approve it, and I'll do the rest. Tomorrow is the deadline for her answer. Last night she called to let me know she's leaving town and we can talk when she gets back...which she's said so many times before. I think she only calls me if she's about to get on an airplane.

There isn't anything else I can do.

for the middle aspie, his diagnosis should get him an iep, and that should get him quiet accomodations. it sounds like they are refusing to give him an iep despite his diagnosis? have you requested an IEE? that should be your right if you do not agree with their iep evaluation and the school district has to pay for it."
I've done all the possible steps up to hiring a lawyer to force them to do it. So, without money, I'm at a dead end. I've got a 26 page psych eval from a Dr they routinely listen to, done privately at my expense. By law he's entitled to an IEP. In actuality, it's not happening and in fact they are cutting services and programs. 80 more teachers got laid off last week in our county.


"for the youngest, is it possible to get him moved up in grade level? its not the best option, that would be a gifted program that challenges him and teaches to his level, but if thats not available, would they let him skip a grade or two? ..."

Our school system has a policy of not accelerating or compacting. He has to do every assignment, every test, every single thing every other kid does, no matter how much it harms him. They promised to let him compact, but didn't. Skipping grades is against local regulations. Our state mandate requires districts to make their own rules and backs them up on the rules they make. There is a local private school that would take him if there was the money, and could handle his needs (there was another kid like him who went there and did well). They've evaluated him and would put him one grade up in their accelerated track, which would probably be just right for him. They don't have the space or money and are regretful they can't do more for him. The other private schools are good, but not equiped for a child like him.


"if i were you, i would go all mama bear on their butts =) dont call the gifted coordinator, GO TO HER OFFICE =) show up on their doorstep. take copies of all your sons test results. contact the schools councilor or social worker. see if your school has a "pupil service team" or something similar, where you can talk to principal, teacher, social worker, psychologist all together."

I see her face to face on a regular basis, in her office, at gifted program events. She's seen the results. I've put them in her hands and had oficial copies sent as well. I can't afford the fees to get the psych there for the meeting, but her report is good enough. YEs, this meeting was agreed to in August last year, when school started..but it had to wait until she got back from the Gifted Conference. That would be better because she was going to meet with someone there who is an expert on profoundly gifted kids and would give her some guidance....When she got back I awaited her call to set up the meeting, didn't happen. I called a few times, no return. I emailed, no response. I started calling once a week, no response. I ran into her at an event and she said we needed to talk soon and she'd call me later that day...no call. I called the next day, no return call. Last night she called to say her daughter is having a baby so she's leaving town for a few weeks and we'd talk when she got back. Um *sure* we will. We'll have a nice talk over tea, served by Unicorns wearing purple crowns.

I've met with the Asst Principal who's really good about gifted stuff dozens of times. He says he's all for my suggestions but can't do anything without her approval. I've met with the principal and she says she'll go with whatever the Asst and this lady agree to. Sure, easy for them to pass the buck to the mysterious disappearing lady.


" the rest i am going to let wait until fall. at this point my kids are out of school so continuing to push wont do much to help them anyway."

I'm done pushing. I've done far more than I should have had to do. Only hiring a lawyer to enforce the law would work, and then they'd probably take it out on my kids. If I had money I'd just pull them out and do the Johns Hopkins gifted ed by extension or whatever. There are lots of things we could do. I'm not worried about them loosing social stuff at school because they don't get to socialize there anyway. They get twenty minutes for lunch which are supposed to be silent, but aren't. They get twenty minutes of recess but usually end up loosing that for not getting agendas signed, talking in the hall or whatever. Half the time you see the kids with their heads down on their desks when they are supposed to be at recess because they are being punished for whatever...Um, maybe if they got some recess they would behave better? You think?

but come september... its mama bear time.

Hey Kiley, I have experienced the frustration of your child first hand. I grew up in north fulton in GA and pretty much was what they called Pass fail from 3rd grad until 9th grade where I dropped out and got my G.E.D. the school system is pretty much terrible, I actually had a teacher that sounded so much like the one that you have that it was scary. I ended up getting that teacher so angry that she cussed at me and got fired for it, Best Day Ever! Just know this, your children will still be smart with or without this crappy "education" they are getting from public schools. They could probably head to a community college right now after getting a good enough diploma and just start.

With that being said, it seems to me like you have more problems with the teacher/ his or her teaching style then the school in general and at that point you can take it up with the principal and complain complain complain and get them fired. Teachers who are threatened by intelligence should not be teachers simple as that. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.(which you seem to be but you keep talking to answering machines instead of people why not just knock on their door be like look public servant time to serve the public!)

Hey Happy,

See, that's the path I took. I got so fed up with it that I refused to go to school as soon as I legally could, got a GED, and went to college. As of my sixteenth birthday I refused to enter the school building. I'd have had a lot better opportunities if I'd not done that, opportunities that would have led to much more satisfying work, and more money, and I wouldn't be in this mess with my own kids. I'd write a few checks to the right programs and they'd be on their way, happy as clams. If they go that route they probably won't achieve their career goals.

They aren't legally allowed to leave school until the age of 16 and they are 9 and 11, so we've got to find a way to get them through the next few years.

Not all the teachers have been horrible. For second grade Little Guy had an amazing teacher. She absolutely adored him and appreciated his intellect. She figured out what was going on with him before anybody else and is the one who first showed him calculus. This past year Middle Son had really good teachers as well. They understood he needed quiet but couldn't give it to him, at least they were supportive and kind to him. Once in a while they'd even bend a little rule here or there to give him a break and let him have some fun.

There are teachers who control their classroom so they can teach. There are teachers who teach so they can control their classroom. This awful teacher Little Guy had this year was the tyranical sort. She was there for the power trip, not for the kids. Our district superintendant even talks about that when he does teacher orientation. There are some good people in the system, but it's so overtaxed nobody can make it work right.

Happy,

GA is particularly bad, and they are cutting jobs and programs left and right. Obama sent some kind of stimulus money and we are getting new lights on some of the more well travelled roads. They are nice lights, but I'd really rather see that money go to cover some of the 80 teacher's salaries that have just been cut, or perhaps the music and art programs that no longer exist in our countie's schools.

This county is one of the best in GA because we have a big AF base and that gives the schools tons of extra money. Fulton county, not so lucky.

Gee, I wonder if Sunny Perdue is taking a salary cut like the teachers who've all lost...what is it up to, 8 paid days per year from their salaries...if they are the lucky ones still getting salaries.

OK, I'm definitely blowing steam now.

Well, Kiley, it sounds like you are doing all that you can.

I unfortunately have no good advice to give you other then to advise your children to zone out. That's what I did, and it worked for me. It isn't going to be the best thing for their grades, but it will probably be the best thing for their sanity. I'm not suggesting that they start being rude and disrespectful, I am just saying they should check out mentally once they hit their seats.

The good news is that this isn't the end of the world for your child. Your children will be miserable, they will be bored, they will hate going to school, and they will grow very distrustful of anybody in authority. At least that is how it went for me anyways. Hopefully they wont become as depressed as me, but I think that was more due to family matters then schooling. In any case, the good news is that eventually school will turn around. By 11th grade they start teaching interesting subjects. I personally attended a technical school (charter school basically) that was available for 11th and 12th grade students and it was a real interesting and useful learning experience. And then college again was a useful learning experience (minus the required literature courses). So, don't think your children are doomed for life. Eventually they will be taught things worth learning in an environment conducive to learning.

Until then, just accept that going through school is more about surviving your fellow class mates then actually acquiring useful knowledge. I hate to say it, but you and your children will be less stressed out if you both realize that elementary and middle school aren't as useful as people claim, and stop trying to swim upstream to a prize which doesn't exist.

I do wish you luck in your endeavors. Hopefully my words are nothing more then bitter rantings that prove to be false. I do so wish that is the case. But I have pretty much given up all faith in the middle school and elementary education system of this country. And normal high schools aren't much better. Unless you can get in a charter school which is radically different then the norm, I don't think there is much hope left in the education system.

By the way. Are your children mature enough to be left at home for a day without supervision? I don't know their ages or maturity levels, but if you can't find any solution, it might be best to just call it 'homeschooling' and leave your kids at home. It probably wouldn't work if your children are in elementary, but if they are 13 then it might be better then the alternative.