Step son -undiagnosed AS does not want to go outside??.

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10 Aug 2010, 3:30 pm

As the user above has mentioned, I suggest you re-evaluate the interpretation of needs; everyone needs to be social at some point and everyone needs to get outside sometimes, but not everyone needs these things in the same amounts.

I completely support your opinion that it's good for the kids to get outside. And I'm going to suggest a way to convince the boy to go with you. Before I do that, though, I'm going to ask YOU to make a change of perception and accept what I said at the start, and what the last user also inplied - that AS persons don't feel outdoor activities as positive as an evening glueing together model airplanes or dusting and reorganizing their elephant figurines...

Five kids may be loud and active but it's predictable and home, so it is peaceful to an AS child (for the most part) - certainly more peaceful than a swimming pool full of dangerous underwater humans and the superiority of the lifeguards high above their heads. (I exaggerate to make an image).

As an undiagnosed AS individual, I was pushed alot to go outdoors and be social too - some of it worked and some didn't. I know that getting outside occassionally WAS a positive thing for me in the long run, but I was also in the position of that child who causes the parents stress because I didn't want to go with them on their grand adventures. And often still don't when I go to visit and they have 'another tour of the world' planned out for me - us.

But I promised you a way to get him outside on your adventures more often - not every time! But certainly more often:

Before the weekend begins, write down all of your trip plaans. Estimated times for each part of the event. (Trip to the beach: Drive 25 minutes. Stop at [ice cream shop] 5 minutes. Drive 5 minutes. Arrive at the beach. Stay for 2 hours. Drive home 30 minutes.) And allow him to peruse (look at) the list - leave it on the fridge, where he knows it always will be - for at least half a day before you do the event/trip. Let him get used to the idea, and the length of the trip.. before you go.

The length of the trip and where it goes is the most important thing! How long until I'm SECURE again!

Then give him 10 'skip event' coupons. Tell him that's all he gets for the next 20 visits.
Tell him to use them wisely. And never ever ever tell him he can't use them. This is a contract. And the terms are laid out clear and plain and somewhat more predictable than how they are presented now.

catsmeow41
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10 Aug 2010, 3:44 pm

azurecrayon wrote:

catsmeow41 wrote:

well its not really nice quiet & safe..we have 5 kids..its loud..
Having fam,ily outtings is adventouus to most of them..I dont see it healthy to have 5kids all insdie on a beeautiful summer day when we could be out having fun times..

Thanks so much, your answer is very helpful..Im very torn as to what the right thing to do is,, as my s/o I believe also has undiagnosed AS, it can all be overwhelming for me to be the planner, enforcer creator, mom... everything really... and do it all with a big smile and with the knowledge that Im making the right decisions..well its very demanding & i do do o muy best.
This is new, his refusal to be a part of our outtings, and i just didnt know what was best. Thank you for your help.!

Willard
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10 Aug 2010, 3:44 pm

catsmeow41 wrote:

His youngest has tried to kill one of our pets more then once, and when we approached her, she said he is fine, just give him nore attention..so all of our pleas fall on deaf ears.

This kid needs to be in therapy immediately, this is an extremely alarming behavior exhibited almost exclusively by budding sociopaths. Unless you're trying to raise a serial killer get him help fast. Any parent who ignores a warning flag like that needs to be relieved of custody. His mother sounds like a real piece of...work.

As for the other, my mother used to literally lock me out of the house during the summer. Like your stepson, once I was out there, I founds ways to amuse myself, but if she thought she was changing me she was in for a disappointment. By the time I was a teen, I lived in my room, reading, drawing and listening to music and came out only for meals. And at 51, I'm still that way today. I leave my home only when I have a specific mission, and spend most of my day in my office/studio. Some of us are just not cut out to be outdoorsmen. :shrug:

catsmeow41
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10 Aug 2010, 3:48 pm

OddFiction wrote:

As the user above has mentioned, I suggest you re-evaluate the interpretation of needs; everyone needs to be social at some point and everyone needs to get outside sometimes, but not everyone needs these things in the same amounts.

Then give him 10 'skip event' coupons. Tell him that's all he gets for the next 20 visits.
Tell him to use them wisely. And never ever ever tell him he can't use them. This is a contract. And the terms are laid out clear and plain and somewhat more predictable than how they are presented now.

Thank you! Youve provided me with many many amazing ideas..I will discuss them with my s/o & I will implement immediately the coupons..love that idea.. Its hard with 5 kids to know how to find the right balance so everyones needs are met..I appreicate your help with thsi reply.
Thank you

DW_a_mom
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10 Aug 2010, 3:56 pm

OddFiction, great post! And I see it is also your first post, so - Welcome!

I like the idea of a limited number of "skip" coupons, and I agree that it does help to make sure the child knows well in advance precisely what the plans are and how long it will take. Do not stretch things beyond that without his permission; AS like their expectations to be met, and are easily agitated by a world that they feel has no predictability or truth.

To the OP - going back to your original question - yes, I guess you've figured it out by now, what you are seeing is common AS behavior.

One thing I do want to say is that nothing is a life sentence. AS kids can get into ruts just like any kids, and do operate on their own unique timetables, but they learn and adapt and change, too. When handled gently, with stong nudges at the right times, they can learn to enjoy many of the things the rest of the world enjoys. It just takes time, patience, and understanding.

Angelbear, my son did learn to ride a bike, around age 9 or 10, and he now (age 13) absolutely loves biking. A little patience so that it doesn't acquire negative associations, and things just change almost on their own.

He also has made a decision to limit his own computer time, which is something the OP may be interested to know. As with most AS kids, my son never responded well to our setting those limits for him, but he's now had enough life experience to decide that he is happier with a certain balance in his life, and he is making an effort to achieve it. When I wanted to spend the day at an amusement park about a week ago, which isn't exactly his favorite thing given that he is afraid of thrill rides, he decided to bring a book to read in case his younger sister just "had" to do a ride that he didn't want to. We ended up having one of those perfect days, where the two kids were doing lovely give and take on each other's needs and interests. It happens. A little planning, preparation, and flexibility - and a strong sense of control handed over to the AS child (doesn't have to be real, just has to be a sense) - and you'll find that you can enjoy things as a family.

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PunkyKat
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10 Aug 2010, 8:25 pm

My mum had to fight me to get me to play outside. I didn't like being outside during the day because the sun hurt my eyes. Sunglasses messed up my vision because they either made everything too dark or a nausating shade of orange. I was often very hot as a child and sweaters and jackets made me even hotter even if it was very cold outside. If their was so much of a trace of snow on the ground, my mom practicaly bundled me up like Ralphie's little brother in A Christmas Story. Outside was also too unpredictable and chaotic.

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John_Browning
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10 Aug 2010, 10:56 pm

I've met kids like this. Just because a kid has an ASD does not preclude them from sometimes needing a swift kick in the ass, especially if the kid describes himself as lazy. He should be made to go on at least short outings- just plan an hour ahead.

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Tracker
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11 Aug 2010, 4:46 am

John_Browning wrote:

He doesn't mean lazy as in unwilling to do his fair share of the work, he is simply using it to mean engaging in relaxing and enjoyable activities.

Regarding the OP, I personally don't understand why you are so insistent that your child should go out and do activities with the family. Family activities are supposed to be a fun and enjoyable time for everybody involved. The fact that your son is protesting so much clearly indicates that he is not enjoying himself or having fun, despite what you may think. I know its typical for normal people to see their children outside and think, "O look at him, he is outside, he must be having fun and enjoying himself." But if your child was actually having fun and enjoying himself then you wouldn't get the hour long protests.

So, since it is obvious that your child is not enjoying the outings, then that means that they aren't accomplishing anything except for stressing out your son, which makes them a bad idea. Which brings me to the conclusion that you either need to change the outings to be less stressful, and more enjoyable, or you just need to leave your child at home. He is 11 years old, he can take care of himself if you want to go out and go hiking on Saturdays. You don't need to drag him along simply due to some arbitrary notion of that being how things are done.

I know that you can probably find some minor things that make the trips seem like a good idea. You can talk about exercise, or passing the swim test, but those are just silver linings to the huge cloud of problems. If the upsides really did outweigh the downsides then you wouldn't be getting hour long protests. Just because there are minor benefits, doesn't mean that it is worth the cost your child has to pay for coming on the trip. Perhaps in time, he will decide that he is lonely at home by himself, and he will choose to join you. And if you shorten the trips, and make them less unpleasant, then he might change is mind. But in reality, I don't see much of a reason that you have to take your child along despite his firm protests.

catsmeow41
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11 Aug 2010, 7:57 am

azurecrayon wrote:

catsmeow41 wrote:

that could be part of it right there. you have 5 kids, its loud. that means a lot of chaos and noise, not just in the house but where ever you go. those family outings may be a nightmare for an autistic.

yes its good for kids to spend time with family and doing activities together. and i dont think, if the child is sitting at home normally every day like you say, that twice a month outings are too often to expect him to participate. but something to consider is also the nature and length of those activities. a day long hike? im not autistic, but even i would be dying at the end of that in a trip with 4 other kids.

some suggestions to try:
- compromise. reduce the number of outings, or give him a free pass for one a month of his choosing when he can stay home.
- shorten the trips. i am getting pretty good at gauging when the autistics in my house have had enough. an entire day trip, for them, is WAY TOO LONG. usually 2-3 hours tops and one or both of them is starting to feel overloaded.
- involve his interests. find out what he is interested in, plan activities that incorporate that in some way. for instance, ask him to make videos of your activities for youtube. provide him with a camera and software for editing, and see if that gets him out the door with you.
- make a schedule he can see. let him know in advance where you are going, what you are doing. autistics often dont like changing plans, and springing things on them suddenly can go terribly wrong. make sure he knows in advance what the plans are, even if its as simple as "9am to 1pm, family outing".

its hard to find a balance as a family, and adding autistics into the mix can make it even more difficult. in the end, the goal is to meet the needs of the family as a unit AND of each individual. but you cannot continually oppress the needs of one to meet the needs of the whole, and it sounds like thats what the boy is trying to tell you is happening.

sometimes the hardest thing as parents is to throw out the window an idea we have of what makes a healthy family, of what is "right". there is no one universal functioning schedule that every family would be most benefited by. it seems you are at that point, standing at the window and hesitating to throw out your idea of the perfect family outing.

Thanks, yes its hard to throw out the "idea" of what is or isnt healthy, and I suppose having AS changes all of the norms and guildlines that society teaches us along with teaching children as to what is or isnt the right thing to do.
Alot of your suggestions are helpful, thank you. I suppose one of the biggest issues here is he is undiagnosed and his mother refuses to get him help, she has full medical control and does not wish to even make this a consideration, although all the signs are there..the rocking. the headbanging, the not looking in your eyes walking on his toes..etc..
And is it fair to point out to this child, hey theres something wrong with you, you are differant, so you get priviledges like refusing to do family things that the other children dont get to have.. Well its confusing to me, and Im not convinced that this is a heathly way to turn either.
A quote I beleive in is " Whether you can or cant, you are right" .

So to say,..yes you are right, you cannot do this or that, isnt that just impowering him to not believe in himself..to automatically give him a get out of life pass , wouldnt that just add to the feeling that he doesnt fit in....because he is differant..eventually wouldnt this just do more harm. I find this all very confusing. ive worked with children mant times in life, have taken parenting classes to help me make better decisions and always do look for the right balance..however this has me confused yes.
His mother will not get him help, he does not know he is AS, or even understand what or why he may be differant..

Ive thought about the pass thing, and maybe this will work, but again, with 5 children, Id like to keep fairness in the pic & it would not be fair to point out how one child may be differant nor does it help the other kids to see how one person doesnt have to do what the rest of the family is doing and can just refuse to go out with the family....this I know will create more sibling rivary and cause even more stress..
His mother may never accept that he has AS, and as his we are his secondary family , hope can we make this all work..I know..its a tuff one..

catsmeow41
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11 Aug 2010, 8:03 am

Willard wrote:

catsmeow41 wrote:

His youngest has tried to kill one of our pets more then once, and when we approached her, she said he is fine, just give him nore attention..so all of our pleas fall on deaf ears.

I agree Willard..Thanks..I dont know what else to do with the mother situation..and as my s/o also has undisgnosed AS, its very hard for him to move against her, towards her , or make any suggestions to her about his children. He does so occassionaly via me, but does not make any attempts to communicate with her unless I really push..( and then write the email for him to send)
It causes him too much anxiety & he often shuts downs & withdraws. Im doing the best I can..and she has refused to see even this as alarming as it is..as a problem.

catsmeow41
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11 Aug 2010, 8:07 am

angelbear wrote:

I agree that the outings are good, but for the son with possible AS, he is different than the other kids. I wouldn't allow him to never go anywhere, but if there is any way that you can work it out to give him more down time and let the other kids go , it might make the whole family happier. This make take some time to work out, but in the long run, I think it would be a good thing.

Thanks for your input. He has alot of downtime really...Im still torn, I apprecitae all the help from this forum

catsmeow41
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11 Aug 2010, 8:18 am

Tracker wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

Regarding the OP, I personally don't understand why you are so insistent that your child should go out and do activities with the family. Family activities are supposed to be a fun and enjoyable time for everybody involved. Perhaps in time, he will decide that he is lonely at home by himself, and he will choose to join you. And if you shorten the trips, and make them less unpleasant, then he might change is mind. But in reality, I don't see much of a reason that you have to take your child along despite his firm protests.

We like to have family outting as a way of our family connecting and enjoying life , not as a punishment. The kids for the most part all enjoy these outtings, and as its summer its fun to get out there and do something...he has only recently decided to not be a part of our outting, again we only have these kiddies every other weekend, so if we leave him home alone, whats the point of his visit, we are not there??? If we dont do anything "most " of the kids are bored & want to go out..he doesnt..
I dont see how keeping any child locked up inside day in & day out is healthy & pre teens then to fall into this stage of video Tv & computer time...and often just choose to do nothing else. This is a opronblem our society faces tioday with kids not going out getting exercise, too much TV, not enuf other stimlation for the brain..he is not disagnosed..therfore to treat him differently will in fact point put to all of the other kids..hey theres something wrong with him..is that fai eitehr??
Im not so convinced.

catsmeow41
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11 Aug 2010, 8:38 am

angelbear wrote:

Maybe if you knew for sure that your stepson had AS, it would be easier to accept. All I can say is that if one of your loved ones does have AS, you have to learn to be creative and think outside of the box. Blessings to you and your family!

I suppose this is one of the biggest issues here, is he is undiagnosed, and how can you help someone without making them feel different, when they are?? Thanks for your post & blessings..I need them

Bethie
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11 Aug 2010, 8:49 am

catsmeow41 wrote:

Again, with the forcing your ideas of what's "enjoyable", "fun", and "healthy" on an AS kid. Had my parents been so cruel as to force me out into a loud, noisy environment with the bright sun, I would have had a nervous breakdown due to sensory overload. Even a few hours of this would be a nightmare for the AS individual, let alone going out all day! Sorry, but I simply don't understand forcing him to do something that makes him miserable.

You talk about his choice to stay home as keeping him "locked up" when it's HIS preference...

If there's a conflict of interest i.e., some children want to go out and he doesn't, WHY can't either you or the SO stay home with him, and the other go out, or even leave him by himself? He's not a little kid.

If it's your view that individual preferences constitute something being "wrong" with someone, then that message will be easily picked up on by your other children. If, however, you raise them in an environment where different needs and preferences are accomodated, all will be well. Some of your statements are a bit conflicting...why would his wanting/needing to stay home induce "sibling rivalry", if the other children really do want to go out?

I agree with the other poster about the attempted cat-killer. This child needs to be in some type of intesive therapy IMMEDIATELY- this is incredibly alarming sociopathic behavior.

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catsmeow41
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11 Aug 2010, 9:48 am

Bethie wrote:

catsmeow41 wrote:

Again, with the forcing your ideas of what's "enjoyable", "fun", and "healthy" on an AS kid.
I agree with the other poster about the attempted cat-killer. This child needs to be in some type of intesive therapy IMMEDIATELY- this is incredibly alarming sociopathic behavior.

Thanks, I will take all your points into consideration. I do want to do the right thing for the boy, again..as ive said, he is undiagnosed, and Im looking for infor to determine if I should treat him like he has AS, or if this is tyopical preteen not wanting to do anything behavior. Im very conflicted on what the right thing to do is. My s/o has two other kids, its not fair if the one child wants him to stay home all the time, and the other two want him to go out with him & do family outtings...Im looking to find a balance for our family. The other kids do not always complain if the oldest stays home, but they are kids & at times the younger one may not want to go too if they see someone else " doesnt have to". Why should he get to stay & not us etc tec..his is typoical children behaviors..and again..im not saying this is alwyas the way it is. We cant accomadate the younger ones to stay home...and this is where sibling rivary comes into place. Why should the rules be different for one, when they apply to everyone. WhetherI sopeak it out loud or not that he is getting treated differently, these kids will soon see..and then maybe he will also start wondering why do i get my way & the others dont?? This will be treating him differantly even if no one says why.
I know forcing everyone into doing things they dont want to do is not healthy. Im trying to determine if this is part of behaviour that is an AS trait & is a beginning of something new for the oldest.
ad if so...I find it difficult to allow himself to aleinate himself from the family on these weekends...
We will accomadate what is best for him, Im just looking ofr answers.. .

catsmeow41
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11 Aug 2010, 10:11 am

PunkyKat wrote:

Thank you for haring with me your perspective..he does complain about the sun alot..and that its hot..of coarse it is summer, so that is natural..however I am trying to understand from AS point of view so I can help him.

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