Not hearing, not processing, or not paying attention?

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pgd
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24 Aug 2010, 9:32 am

bjtao wrote:
If I say to my son 'Please hand me the diaper wipes.' He brings me a diaper. If, after a shower, I tell him to hang up the towel and close the shower door (sliding door, no curtain), he will hang the towel and close the bathroom door. If I ask him to turn off the computer, he will turn off the TV. If I ask him to turn the hose on, he will go turn it off (it is already off so it doesn't turn, but he still tries to turn it off). If I ask him to turn off the coffee pot, he will go to the kitchen, stare at the window above the sink and tell me he can't find the coffee pot. If I tell him to get the phone off the dresser in my bedroom, he will go to the desk. If I tell him to get the bottle on the table, he will say there is no bottle (only one item/bottle on the table, a water bottle).

I don't want you to think I am giving him commands all the time, but those are examples from this weekend. This is all the time. It is very frustrating because I don't understand it. Does your child do this?

I am learning as I go and read and talk to people and docs. Our diagnosis is only 2 weeks old. He is 10. I have noticed if I stand in front of him and say 'Go to the kitchen and on the left hand side, by the microwave, at the end of the counter, there is the white coffee pot. Please look at the button on the right hand side of the coffee pot. If it is lit, it is still on. Please turn it off if it is lit by pressing the button down.' He will be able to do it. The coffee pot has always been in the same place.

Any idea what all this is about? I can give long, detailed commands, but I forget to do that at times.


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Limited Working memory/Short term memory
Auditory memory vs Visual memory
Central auditory processing disorder (CAPD)
ADHD Inattentive
Short attention span (2 items and so)
Extremely short attention span (1 item long)
Inattention which can look like petit mal/absence/complex partial/TLE but isn't

and so on

How verbal words are processed/not processed
How visual words are processed/not processed

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http://www.rsna.org/rsna/media/pr2005/Coffee.cfm (Short-term memory)(not a cure)
http://coffeescience.org/alert (Mental alertness)(not a cure)

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http://www.ericdigests.org/2003-5/auditory.htm
http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/ea ... itory.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/misunderstoodmi ... ntion.html

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http://www.sportsconcussions.org/

Other

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Is child guessing at what he is told verbally because he doesn't process it (completely) or it simply does not record (completely) in working memory and stay there long enough for him to multi-task it/whatever?

http://www.waiting.com/glossarya.html
http://www.waiting.com/glossarym.html

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Cortex
Thalamus
Midbrain
Pons
Medulla

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Temporal Lobes

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http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroanatomy_of_memory
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_memory

etc.

It is often easier to slowly recognize the symptoms than it is to find anything which may quickly remedy/temporarily remedy parts of challenge.

In some cases, there are no easy answers.



pgd
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24 Aug 2010, 10:21 am

buryuntime wrote:
Check out auditory processing disorder. It seems my whole childhood I had to say Huh? to everything and have it repeated back. To me it seems like your kid just is filling in the gaps instead of asking for you to repeat yourself, and that is why things are going badly.

I also had problems with finding things. If someone wants me to do something, they have to SHOW ME or WRITE IT DOWN. I need specifics. But being older general things around the house, I can usually make sense of what my family means now.


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ADHD and Auditory Processing

http://www.ericdigests.org/2003-5/auditory.htm

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical/ea ... itory.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/misunderstoodmi ... ntion.html

...

http://www.rsna.org/rsna/media/pr2005/Coffee.cfm (Short-term memory)(not a cure)
http://coffeescience.org/alert (Mental alertness)(not a cure)

Recall reading a How To (understand) book (1981) by C. Thomas Wild about ADHD Inattentive where he discussed a similar, very subtle hearing/processing/working memory challenge and how several FDA approved medicines (alertness aids)(containing caffeine - 100 mg/other ingredients) helped a little (not a cure).

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/adhd/adhd.htm

Some persons do not fully understand/process auditory words but can actually write them down on paper, then read what is on the visual paper, and process them 100% as visual information.

It's a way of converting auditory information into written, visual text.

That's my understanding.



OddFiction
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24 Aug 2010, 11:41 am

bjtao... It's not just you who cuts words out of sentances, and not just in your neck of the woods. It's so very common all over the world. He will learn to adapt to it.. just not so young.. and not until he's got a bit of stock in self confidence / success from doing these things 'by himself'. So work on the full[er] instructions and see how it goes.

You shouldn't beat yourself over these things - it's a totally different mindset, and a totally different way of looking at the world. You came here and you're looking for answers. You were smart enough to do that, so I applaud you. And you're listening to the suggestions too.

Sort thru them all. Try them all. See what works. See what doesn't. There is more advice here and more range of experiences than any book or shrink will ever be able to provide. You found your wailing wall - and it's talking back, in a good way!

So please keep talking to us and asking your questions.
We're here to help each other, and that means we're here for you too.



daydreamer84
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24 Aug 2010, 8:25 pm

SteamPowerDev wrote:
When I was a child my parents would often say I never paid attention to what they said. While some of that could just be normal kid stuff, some of it could just be the way the kids brain processes information. I know I can forget the simplest of tasks, or I might be in the middle of doing something, and I am reminded I should go do something else. I will stop what I am doing right then, and go do the thing that I am reminded of.

However, when I am giving instructions or directions, I go into great detail. Equal to any GPS unit when giving directions. Although I am no all knowing master of the Asperger's Syndrome, I would think that this weirdly ordered and detail oriented method of receiving and delivering information is some kind of Asperger's trait.


Agreed......I always do better when I am given unnecessarily detailed instructions.



irishwhistle
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24 Aug 2010, 11:16 pm

I don't know what other issues you've been addressing, but this particular one reminds me of Nonverbal Learning Disorder, which is a learning disability that has many common traits with AS, ADHD, Dyspraxia, and no doubt others. It is my opinion that a lot of these things are either interchangeable or at least have resulted in misdiagnoses of children on the borders of each condition. I believe that NLD explains the problems I've had all my life, but if nothing else the description helps explain some qualities of AS. I'm going to be taking steps to have two of my kids assessed for NLD this year.


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StatMama
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24 Aug 2010, 11:23 pm

bjtao: Children on the spectrum and/or with sensory processing issues have difficulty filtering environmental sensory input. Everything tends to clump together as a turbulent collective, and it becomes really difficult to pick out any one thing from the fray. Turning off the TV when you said computer doesn't surprise me, he probably created a mental image and, as he went to follow through on the task, the 'noise' from the environment interfered with the image. Getting distracted midway is not uncommon, and it sounds like he is trying.


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OddFiction
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24 Aug 2010, 11:35 pm

I still think it's simply a matter of detail and explaination.
Maybe a matter of labelling (or failing to assign proper labels to things)

To him
- The computer and the tv do the same thing - they make pictures.
- The desk and the table each serve the same function. Things are put on them.
What really is the difference? Define desk for me? Somewhere to do work, right?
Does he do work, on that desk, like you do? Experience hasn't taught the difference: it's just a flat surface with legs. One is the "eating table" and one is the "book and paper covered table"
- Hose on / Hose off. he's seen someone turning the knob clockwise (or counterclockwise) and the other end is all the way on the other end of the lawn. Is there a connection between the gushing tube over there and the knob over here? Not yet. They're too far apart. Ask him where the hose is. Betcha he shows you the tap.

I'll bet he doesnt need detailed instructions anymore to turn off the coffee machine - now that he's done it once, you could simply say "make the light on the coffee machine turn off" and he'd probably get it...

It really does sound to me like he hasn't labelled all the furniture 9etc) in the house yet.

Narrate your day: "I am turning the coffee machine off". "I am puttting a water bottle on the table". "I am turning the knob to make water come out of the hose" "Moving this switch up to make the lights turn on".

Occam's Razor:
Simplest answer first. Don't go looking for more diagnoses. He just doesn't have the same perspective on his environment as a world wise adult does.... yet.



Last edited by OddFiction on 25 Aug 2010, 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

OddFiction
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24 Aug 2010, 11:38 pm

Having said that.. First thing to rule out is hearing problems. But i assume that's already been checked.



bjtao
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25 Aug 2010, 7:56 am

More great advice, thank you. I am so happy for this forum.



pgd
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27 Aug 2010, 9:02 am

irishwhistle wrote:
I don't know what other issues you've been addressing, but this particular one reminds me of Nonverbal Learning Disorder, which is a learning disability that has many common traits with AS, ADHD, Dyspraxia, and no doubt others. It is my opinion that a lot of these things are either interchangeable or at least have resulted in misdiagnoses of children on the borders of each condition. I believe that NLD explains the problems I've had all my life, but if nothing else the description helps explain some qualities of AS. I'm going to be taking steps to have two of my kids assessed for NLD this year.


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NVLD - NLD

http://www2.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=3892