Feeling trapped sad hopeless frustrated/lost...LONG VENT

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Mama_to_Grace
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03 Nov 2010, 9:57 am

momsparky wrote:

One thing - can you ask the school if you can take her to the classroom either before or after all the other kids? I know DS was relatively OK if he didn't have to deal with the hubub and social mess of lining up (just discovering this in 4th grade.) I doubt this will make her want to go to school, but I've found DS really appreciates even small accommodation - as long as it doesn't impact him socially - I think because the acknowledgement that things are hard for him helps, even if the accommodation doesn't.


I asked for this at public school, which they did for a while and it helped (if only to prevent her peers from witnessing it) but I have been hesitant to make any requests at the private school because I am waiting to see if she settles in and can be happier with a smaller setting or if the teachers figures out how to really engage her. I know the teacher is very perplexed. Her usual teaching strategies are not working. We have only been in the private school 2 months (wow, that's longer than I realized) prhaps it will be time to strategize with the teacher after she goes to the conference.



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03 Nov 2010, 10:09 am

Countess wrote:
I also wanted to suggest that she really may not feel well when she comes home. That was a common complaint of mine, and I really didn't but wasn't able to express what was bothering me. Because I was so anxious I had a lot of gastrointestinal issues. I also held all my tension in my shoulders, so it was very common for my neck and back to hurt.

I agree that lying to her isn't an option. You mentioned that you work so I would imagine the homeschooling isn't really an option for her either. It might just be a good idea to start introducing her to the harsh reality of life: sometimes we have to endure things that are difficult and not what we want. If all we did was what we wanted to, life would be pretty boring because you would never appreciate having that "fun" time. That might be too complicated for her, but the fact is that life is sometimes about doing what you have to and figuring out ways to get through it. She needs an education - that's not optional. Emphasize that you believe in her and you know it's hard for her, but that you know she can do this because she's a very bright and very strong little girl. And keep telling her that until you both believe it. Giving your child positive feedback will bring more positive behavior.

Is there any way that you can interject pleasantries into each part of the routine? Like sitting down for homework and having some cookies and milk and talking about something she likes while you do it? It may drag the process out initially, but if you can create a positive association with it, it might not be so overwhelming for her. Sometimes changing the tone and making it less formal or pressing can help.


When she was younger I took her to the Dr quite often. She would have doubling over stomach aches. They would press on her tummy and proclaim it to be not medical/physical (in other words in her head) in origin. She does take prescription antacids on really bad days. It helps somewhat. Her pedi finally referred her to a GI Doc who wanted to sedate and scope her and at the time I felt it would be too traumatic for her so I refused. I do think something medical is going on but I don't know what. I tend to think it is physical effects of too much anxiety. My mother had agoraphobia for many years and the physical effects on her body were pretty bad. This is somewhat similar to that.



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03 Nov 2010, 10:34 am

"Doubled over" with stomach pain/bloating could be the result of a food allergy/intolerance, and a lot of doctors are still not very good at noticing/diagnosing this.

A classic cause of GI problems ( and zinc and tryptophan deficiency which can cause depression, anxiety, poor sleep, etc ), apparently, ( I'm only just beginning to read about this after years of concentrating on gluten, casein, etc ), is fructose malabsorption and fructan intolerance, and it is very common. Have you had a hydrogen-breath test done?

Good luck. I think most aspies/auties prefer people to be straight with them, and absolutely loathe what looks to them like totally unfounded "positive thinking". But you might find that reducing her fructose and fructan load helps raise her mood and reduce the GI problems.

PS. Foods particularly high in fructans and the similarly "irritating" inulins etc are wheat and rye, onions and leeks, brown-rice ( as opposed to white ), a lot of texturisers and stabilisers, the inotols, sorbitols, xylitols, etc, many beans/pulses, the cabbage family, and chicory, among other things. And foods particularly high in fructose are apples, pears, honey, and the sweeter fruits, ( apart from bananas which are usually ok ).
.



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03 Nov 2010, 11:21 am

Ohhhhhh Mama - I am so with you! Sometimes, I am just at my whit's end. Here's the deal that you and I and some of the others really need to embrace. We are NT and we just don't "get so much of it".

One day I vented like you did here but to my DS. He was complaining that I wasn't tickling his back long enough at night, and I just lost it. One day when he was giving me grief about something that he didn't want to do - I just said, "I quit" and walked away.

I think that there is a point about the NT "lying" that we do in the name of positive thinking. When I finally just said, "I'm tired and I'm sick of pestering you all the time" and "I know you don't like school, I didn't either. I am doing the best I can to make it as good for you as possible." I got some relief. I'm not sure if DS heard me, or I just felt better, but I think that it's important with our kids to trust them with your reality.

Homeschool isn't an option for us as well and frankly I'm sick of hearing everyone suggesting it as if it's a new idea. For those that were homeschooled - I hope they thank their parents for making it possible.

Mama - when DS was 1/2 way through 1st grade, we pulled him out of public school and put him in private for exactly the reasons you state. Unfortunately, once the social rules and executive function requirements of higher grades (for us 3rd), DS really needs to be in a tailored program. By 4th grade my pep talks completely backfired and the meltdowns increased. All of us have different stories, so I'm not suggesting that you will have the same story - but you may want to prepare just in case. From what i have read, it's pretty common fir "it" to hit the fan in 3rd / 4th grades.

Kepl030 - I wish I had your tech saavy! I don't know how to make the right songs go on at the right times, but I love the idea. BTW - count your blessings that DS likes showers!! !



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03 Nov 2010, 11:57 am

That would have been my life if my son and my daughter had been born as a single person with all their burdens combined. So .. I feel for you, I definitely do!

While I get the benefit of having my two see-saw a bit, so that I'm not usually having all their worst issues hit at once, I can tell you that those slow two steps forward, one step back DO eventually lead to progress. I think you've got an unusually tough road, but you are doing a wonderful job. Your daughter is still at a tough age with the AS, and other tough ages lie ahead, but sitting here in one of my son's "wow, it's come together for him" periods, I know these DO happen. You keep your head down and work your tail off, and then if all has gone well you get a short period where you can literally see how all that hard work paid off. At least when it comes to the burdens from the AS. I think what may make it more difficult for you is that you have to deal with the moody girl issues on top of the AS, and those may run high at almost exactly the same ages you should be getting breathers on the AS issues, which is really unfortunate (5th grade seems to be a good year for many AS boys, but it is often an emotional roller coaster year for girls, AS or not).

Feel free to vent; sometimes that is the best one can do.


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03 Nov 2010, 12:03 pm

kepl030 wrote:

The point I am trying to get at is that Kai likes to think things are his idea. Kai does not like to be lied to. Sometimes we have to down the level of detail to meet the 7 year range, but he needs the truth. No gray area!


This is very much true with my son, as well. Sometimes I have to sell things to him using nothing better than, "it's just the way the world works, and we've got deal with it," but he takes that better than something he perceives as a lie. He very much needs to feel in control of his life.


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03 Nov 2010, 12:12 pm

Mama_to_Grace wrote:
In my mind I wonder what good would it do to commiserate with her? Wouldn't it make it worse to say "you're right school sucks. Sorry I have to send you there".
I guess it's NT of me to think the power of positive thinking and positive encouragement would help.


I think that is the point they wanted to make, that with an AS child it is actually better to commiserate than to apply a false positive attitude. Ideally, you need to kind of tag team yourself: commiserate first, agree it sucks, and then become the upbeat person that will help her find a silver lining in an otherwise crappy day. Not with false words, but with humor. Get her to laugh about all the crap in life. OK, I'm no good at that, either, but it is what both my kids need. The humor is the sugar coating, and I've noticed that many people with AS have wickedly good sarcastic senses of humor.


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03 Nov 2010, 12:38 pm

Something I have considered, but have not checked into is hiring a tutor to homeschool your chid. So far my son doesn't mind going to school, but if I ever do think of homeschooling, then I have thought of this as I don't think he would do much for me either. If you are already paying for a private school, then maybe the cost wouldn't be too much different? Just a thought.

Sorry you are having a rough time right now. I know it is very difficult, especially doing this on your own. I can't imagine! Does her father help out with anything?

All I can say is that yeah, I get it. My son doesn't seem to have alot of the difficulties that you describe, but I do feel like our world is so much different than what I had envisioned. But each day is a new day, and we just keep pressing on. I think it would really be great if you could just get some type of short break for yourself. Is there someone that she trusts enough that you could just go out for a few hours sometime. Just to have some peace and to do something for yourself?

As far as the comments and things that she makes, I would just try to not read so much into them. I know it is strange, my son makes all kinds of strange statements. Yesterday he asked me if it was Thanksgiving about 15 times. He will say things like "I don't want mom, I just want dad", and I could go on and on. I just feel like he is just trying to sort things out in his head and his world, and instead of keeping the thoughts to himself, he is verbalizing them.

I wish I could help more, but I feel lost at times too. The only thing that helps me is to just say "Okay, Lord, you have created him with a plan and a purpose for his life. Please help me to be a part of what that plan is and give me your guidance and direction in leading him on that path"

Hang in there, we are all in this together, and I am happy we have each other to vent to!



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03 Nov 2010, 1:14 pm

DandelionFireworks wrote:
Try keeping her home for a bit. See if it gets any better. Can you miss a few days of school and see if she's any more energetic on those days?

I agree with what everyone else has said-- you're a liar. You don't see yourself that way; you don't mean it that way. Being NT, you probably don't even realize you're lying. But you are. And worse, you're saying, "I don't listen when you tell me something's wrong; I don't take your pain seriously; I deny it. You're not really hurting. You should be happy. I don't care. Don't tell me when it hurts."

Then you're taking her to school, which is for one of the very many possible reasons torture for her as for so many. Leave her to exhaust her reserves there drawing on hidden strength of the sort that allows mothers to lift cars off of their children. Day in. Day out. From waking up being betrayed, spending her day suffering, then she comes home exhausted. Can't enjoy life. Imagine trying to enjoy life if you spent seven hours every day working so hard you pushed yourself to your limit and past it, with everyone calling this fun, but you getting no benefit from it, just forced into busywork that never let up, just made you so tired.

So then she gets her little break. And then it follows her home. After she's stopped. It comes back. Makes her start again.

Then she goes to bed. Then she wakes up. Another day of the same. Only suffering. Unremitting. No energy left to enjoy anything. Why would she want to go on? And you're her mother. You're the one she should be able to trust. You're the one who does this to her. She's pleading with you, holding onto your leg. You just want her off. Her pain is irrelevant; you just want her off. You just want it to be convenient for you. (Maybe you care a lot, maybe it tears you up inside, but that's not going to come through. That will NOT come through. All she knows is you hurt her no matter how much she tries to ask you not to.)

...Of course, that's all just a guess. Maybe you should keep her home for a while. Maybe more than a few days. Can you spare a week or two? A month would be better, but that's too hard for you. The school district will start bugging you. You don't want to deal with that.

Anyway, you might change schools, or you might try half-days. Or you might homeschool. But definitely before you start anything else, give her a break, some time to veg out. Imagine going through something that hard and then trying to give something else your all. Not gonna happen. To make anything a positive experience, you'll need to give her a vacation of sufficient length to allow her to stop tapping into her emergency reserves of strength and refill her regular strength enough to use only that. Maybe after she can start not reaching critical on a daily basis, she'll have energy left over to have fun. After a while of that, maybe the suicidal ideation will stop.


When I read this the first time it stung and I reactively thought it was ALL WRONG. However, upon re-reading it I think this may all be very true.

Not that I don't care or don't want to hear her but that you are saying THAT'S WHAT SHE PERCEIVES. That may very well be true.

I do notice that she is happier on the weekends and practically giddy Fridays after school. Mondays are bad but not AS BAD as Wednesday, Thursday and Friday when she may be out of reserves like you said.

I am going to take her out of school this Tuesday. They are doing a field trip so I will give her a day to "veg out" and see if that replenishes her reserves a bit. I will also try to relay to her that I hear her when she says she's suffering. Don't know how I'll do that without breaking into tears but I'll try to convey it.

Thanks.



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03 Nov 2010, 2:44 pm

Mama_to_Grace wrote:
When I read this the first time it stung and I reactively thought it was ALL WRONG. However, upon re-reading it I think this may all be very true.

Not that I don't care or don't want to hear her but that you are saying THAT'S WHAT SHE PERCEIVES. That may very well be true.

I do notice that she is happier on the weekends and practically giddy Fridays after school. Mondays are bad but not AS BAD as Wednesday, Thursday and Friday when she may be out of reserves like you said.

I am going to take her out of school this Tuesday. They are doing a field trip so I will give her a day to "veg out" and see if that replenishes her reserves a bit. I will also try to relay to her that I hear her when she says she's suffering. Don't know how I'll do that without breaking into tears but I'll try to convey it.

Thanks.


Cry if you have to. Crying is important to your emotional health. Better to teach her to cry when she needs to now. If she becomes concerned, talk to her honestly about it. My son is three, I have cried in front of him. I have just told him that mommy is sad. It's important to teach your child that it's OK to have feelings and appropriate times and ways to express them. And it's important for YOUR health that you express them. It won't hurt her or ruin her life to know that you have feelings. It mind make your bond stronger though if you trust her with your feelings too.



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03 Nov 2010, 5:12 pm

Mama_to_Grace wrote:
When she was younger I took her to the Dr quite often. She would have doubling over stomach aches. They would press on her tummy and proclaim it to be not medical/physical (in other words in her head) in origin. She does take prescription antacids on really bad days. It helps somewhat. Her pedi finally referred her to a GI Doc who wanted to sedate and scope her and at the time I felt it would be too traumatic for her so I refused. I do think something medical is going on but I don't know what. I tend to think it is physical effects of too much anxiety. My mother had agoraphobia for many years and the physical effects on her body were pretty bad. This is somewhat similar to that.


To be clear: I do NOT think diet and autism are related.

However, just a thought - being of Latin American descent, I and my son are lactose intolerant; it is common and those are often the symptoms. Vague stomachaches suddenly got better with Lactose-reduced milk, and have gone away entirely now that we are drinking Almond milk (which I find tastes better than soy.)

Our stomachs don't seem to be affected by cheese, yogurt, ice cream or pudding - just liquid milk, so it's not as draconian as some of the other diets. It's not too difficult to cut out liquid milk or replace it with something else for a few days (you can even do calcium-enriched OJ) and see if things improve - with DS, the improvement was immediate - the same day.

And, again, hugs.



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03 Nov 2010, 5:25 pm

Mama_to_Grace wrote:
druidsbird wrote:
Wow. Your child is just like I was, to a tee.


What could your mother have done better to make you happier?

If homeschool was not an option?


Because what I said before was a little harsh, I want to reassure you on some things.

My mother... she did try to help me. She really did. But I grew up with a sister 3 years older than I was who had serious medical problems. I grew up in a school system where their only effort on my behalf was to test me for ADHD, and when that didn't pan out they didn't bother to find out what WAS wrong. I grew up poor, and going to doctors who didn't have the slightest idea what was wrong with me.

Simply put, I fell through the cracks. And if you are more involved with your child than my mother had the luxury of being able to be with me, then you are already doing better. If you have ANY resources at ALL to help your child, then you're already doing better.

But to be perfectly honest, and I know you might not want to hear this but, the schooling is the big isssue. You're going to have to find some sort of workable solution if you want her to be happy. I actually wasn't allowed to homeschool until high school, when I could pretty much be trusted to take the required material and work through it independently at my own pace, without having to have my parents' help. But you know what? I was so much happier and more stable not having to go to school. And not only that, but my GPA went from an unbroken string of 1.5-2.0's, to 4.0 and honor roll in every class. If you want her to be happy, you are going to HAVE to find a better solution for your daughter's schooling. Cause if she really is just like I was, then school is literally destroying her.


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03 Nov 2010, 6:06 pm

mama, im so sorry to hear the desperation and frustration in your post. sometimes that realization that we are in a place we never expected to be, and more importantly dont know how to get out of, is overwhelming.

i was reading an article the other day about something called "school refusal" which sounds very much like what your daughter is going through. it can be caused by learning disabilties and anxiety, so certainly AS could play into that. it may be worth looking into, maybe there are things suggested for it that may work with her.

if your schedule isnt detailed down to the minute, it may be a good idea to consider doing that. even doing a reward system. you can break each morning down into parts, get up at 7:00, get dressed at 7:05, brush teeth at 7:15, etc. for each item she completes WHEN she is suppose to complete it, she earns a star or sticker. allow her to trade those stickers in for special things, a trip to a zoo, a new game for her ipod, etc.

does she have any down time at school? is it possible to get her time to "veg out"? even just a 20-30 minute timeslot when she can rest and relax and be away from people. lunch or recess maybe? schools often see recess as down time, but for an autistic child, it can be even more chaotic and stressful than the classroom. i know her class is small, but 6 may as well be 60 if she is already overloaded and/or overstimulated.

i would agree with the others that the positive thinking, while it often works with nt kids and adults, isnt doing anything to affect her reality. autistics are very literal minded and black and white thinkers. to you its not lying, to me its not lying, but to her, it probably is. more importantly, shes saying how bad it is for her, and the one person in her life who matters is clapping her on the shoulder and telling her its going to be fine. if someone did that to you right now, im sure you are adult enough to realize that they are right and you will make it through this somehow, but its not going to actually make RIGHT NOW any better. it may even make you feel worse for a bit since you realize you dont know when its going to get better. she probably feels the same way.

one last thing on my mind is how exactly is school affecting her? why is it so traumatic? has she shared anything specific with you about it? too noisy? too cold? people talk to her too much? lights too bright? maybe if you can narrow down what some of the more offensive parts are, you can see if there are accommodations that can be made to ease those parts.


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03 Nov 2010, 6:19 pm

azurecrayon wrote:
You can break each morning down into parts, get up at 7:00, get dressed at 7:05, brush teeth at 7:15, etc. for each item she completes WHEN she is suppose to complete it, she earns a star or sticker. allow her to trade those stickers in for special things, a trip to a zoo, a new game for her ipod, etc.


We use the snooze alarm: wake up at the first alarm at 7, come into our bed for a cuddle at the second, go get dressed at the 3rd, downstairs by the 4th - at which point if he makes it, he gets 1/2 hour of TV. It helps that the alarm takes it out of our hands. After that point, the morning usually goes reasonably well.



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03 Nov 2010, 6:45 pm

Mama_to_Grace wrote:
druidsbird wrote:
Wow. Your child is just like I was, to a tee.


What could your mother have done better to make you happier?

If homeschool was not an option?


Also, I forgot to add that my mother also tried bribing me, but not even bribes of Star Wars related stuff could get me to go to school, and Star Wars was my special interest from 5-18 years old. Bribery didn't work like positive reinforcement, it just put my special interest, the only part of life I could really enjoy, on the wrong side of a torturous experience--which made *everything* worse.

And even in childhood I always resented my elders for their "white lies" about how everything is going to be ok and maybe today will even be fun... A lie or even an unintentionally broken promise is the same as a betrayal. If you believe something that doesn't come true, the whole outside world shatters. I have nothing to go on except trust, even now at almost 30... Reliability is the only basis on which I can comfortably interact with people.


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03 Nov 2010, 8:18 pm

momsparky wrote:

To be clear: I do NOT think diet and autism are related.

However, just a thought - being of Latin American descent, I and my son are lactose intolerant; it is common and those are often the symptoms. Vague stomachaches suddenly got better with Lactose-reduced milk, and have gone away entirely now that we are drinking Almond milk (which I find tastes better than soy.)

Our stomachs don't seem to be affected by cheese, yogurt, ice cream or pudding - just liquid milk, so it's not as draconian as some of the other diets. It's not too difficult to cut out liquid milk or replace it with something else for a few days (you can even do calcium-enriched OJ) and see if things improve - with DS, the improvement was immediate - the same day.

And, again, hugs.


We have already tried that and she has only had lactose free milk for several years now. She does have cheese and yogurt, though but not in large quantities. She has perhaps one-two dairy serving per day.