Adult Aspergers and handling the anger problems!

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Sorry to hear it's not going well.

This may sound odd, but it sounds a lot like delayed puberty. Perhaps not the hormonal changes, but the social and mental ones. Probably blissfully skipped that when he was a teen, unable to relate to what the other kids were going through, but now that he's older he is feeling a need and desire to connect but, well, isn't able to do it at the level of people his own age, and is busy making teen style blunders.

I think helping him develop a plan for working on these skills might help. It has to be something he chooses; a process he willingly enters.

I realize he's 23 and technically and adult, but he needs to be able to express his frustrations, just safely. As parents we are told that we shouldn't worry if our kids want to sit in their rooms screaming, and I think the same is true for your nephew. Screaming lets his anger out. It can't be ignored away, and screaming is relatively safe. Let him know that screaming will be allowed, but nothing destructive. Over time he can learn more effective ways of dealing with the anger sooner, so it doesn't reach this level.

What I've noticed with my son is that the need to have everything go his way gets stronger and stronger the more stress he is under, and the more out of control his life seems to be. I would suggest the same is going on here: your nephew feels out of control, so he is trying harder and harder to grab control. Which actually makes it all worse, but they don't process that; they only are aware of the NEED.

With my son, I've found it effective to yank him from the situation when that happens. The problem is, the situation your nephew is reacting to may not be temporary, or something you can remove him from. So you may have to get a little more creative on helping him find a way to clear his head and regain perspective.

That self-control thing is really critical especially since we are talking about an adult.

I find it interesting that screaming would be acceptable, ok I've done it once or twice but I was in the car with the windows up and no one was around. I think a better approach would be to go for a brisk walk to get some of that physical energy out of you and if my mind was still racing I would get a pen and paper and right down my thoughts (or do it on the computer).
I am an adult, and not a parent, but I will say that society treats people with anger management problems (and it really doesn't matter why people have these problems) very severely. I think it would be very sad if this were not dealt with in a serious way now. It really is a condition of social gatherings and employment that people control their behavior, regardless of their problems. Maybe that is fair, maybe it is not but that is the way life is.

I have AS and bipolar type 2. So, even though I have a serious mood disorder that I am managing with medication and all the usual AS stuff, society still expects me to behave properly. Yes, my life has been a mess (gross understatement). I know that if I were to be invited to your house you would expect me to behave--wouldn't you?

Sure, there are better approaches, but if the young man knew how to take them, he would be taking them. Screaming your head off in your room beats bottling it up and eventually releasing the anger in an inappropriate way. A young man living with mom and dad has no choice but to release in the presence of others; the key is that he learns to respect time and place. Your own room when no guests are in the house qualifies as time and place.

Good point.

Is medication an option? SSRI's have helped me immensely with this. The meds don't solve the problems that are triggering these outbursts, but they mellow the brain chemistry so one can work on the problem more sanely - without screaming, anxiety, and angst. At least that's how it seems to work for me.

Thanks everyone for all of your input. To Tracker, I believe what you say could be correct, or that he has just been sheltered for so long that he doesn't know how to deal with his emotions/anger. He has seen many psychiatrist/psychologist through his lifetime, some have helped some haven't. He is on medication and is taking something for his depression. It seems like everything mentioned has been tried, but the more leeway his parents give him the more he takes advantage, For instance, now that he has quit his job, he seems to think that he is supposed to do something with someone every night and as you know, that dosen't seem to be working for him. We thought quiting his job would take some of the pressure off, but it hasn't. To be quite honest with everyone, his mother and father have not always gotten along through the years, and I think some of the verbal abuse between the two of them has rubbed off on him. My sister, his mother, has always tried to do everything in her power to help her son regardless of the cost, but that's where some of the problems lie. As I said before, we will continue to love him and encourage him, but the anger has to be dealt with.

I could see several potential causes for his anger, all quite valid.

How much awareness does he have of his disabilities? Is he around others with similar disabilities? Do family members talk to him in a straightforward, nonjudgemental, nonpitying manner about his disabilities or is it the "elephant in the room"?

It could be that he is becoming more aware of his differences from the world at large and he doesn't have the words or concepts to express how he feels. It's also very isolating, very hard on one's self esteem to be the only one with disabilities. There is camaraderie in being around others who are at the same place in life as you are, even if no conversation takes place.

Two, sex and dating. As a parent of an 18 year old, I know it is hard to talk about these subjects, especially as openly, frankly, straightforwardly as needed. NT kids can assimilate sexual info from peers and media, but ASD youth need people who can give them direct information. Just because an individual has a lower IQ, does not mean that they lack physical desires or should be prohibited from enjoying a sexual life. Peter Gerhardt has online videos about this where he addresses issues such as masturbation, pornography, etc.

Three, autonomy. I don't know what community you reside in, but services in your local community need to be explored. Is transition housing (not group home) available for cognitively challenged individuals? If he is going to live on his own someday, then a plan need to be created to address that, using community resources. Life skills are important, but autonomy is equally important. Autonomy is knowing that you have choices, that you can say No., that you can say "I want another option." Autonomy also means you have to live with the choice you picked, but you know that it was YOUR choice.

-Cinder McDonald
Aspie, parent of 18 year old, sibling, live in AZ

Hi Cinder,

Thanks for the information. My nephew has been told he has Asperger's and I think he understands to a certain point: however, I think a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist could help him to learn more. Hopefully he will be seeing one soon that can help. You're information is quite informative and I will be sure to pass it on to my sister. Thanks for your concern.

He's probably frustrated that he's 23, he's not working an he's not living on his own.

I am 23 and have terrible anger prblems when frustrated. He needs to be put in place and forced to get counciling and how to control his anger, if he is starting to get angry he has to realise that, walking away from the situation is probably the best thing he can do and the person he is venting the ange out on, once he has calmed down warn him if he keeps it up he is out of the house. Make him go to a council and help him get his own place. Dont do all the work for him though just make sure he knows when he has f****d up. He is in a imaturity stage and is acting like a 23 year old. He needs a place to vent, and to learn to control himself. get him to do a sport voluntry work join a gym etc.

I know if I am not doing anything I start to get angry, then I know I have to snap out of it otherwise I go in a major meltdown.
exercise, and a firm warning should sort out some of his anger problems.

Only going on own experiences.

You assume it's because he doesn't get his way and it probably isn't. Most likely it is because he feels threatened or confused. Look up “sensory meltdowns”. If this is what's going on, it's not intentional, it's not consciously controlled and threats will do no good. He or his parents need to figure out what the triggers are and whether these things can be caught before they happen. If his parents know how to respond to meltdowns – don't escalate, don't touch, use calming voices, remove stimuli which might be making it worse, and encourage him to go somewhere quiet until he calms down – this will minimise any risk to him or them. Other useful techniques are learning to spot the signs of meltdowns before they happen, so as to head them off (both autistic people and their carers can learn to do this), and learning what sensory triggers are particular problems, so as to avoid these triggers wherever possible. It's also quite possible that he was stressed by the failed work situation, now believes he is unable to work (as he may well be), and needs to withdraw from socially difficult areas of life. It is very unlikely that he is 'taking advantage'; that involves social awareness he probably doesn't have (why do NT people always think it's about them?) More likely, he thinks he's under an obligation to socialise every night, because he's being encouraged to learn social skills. Or maybe it's a routine he's become attached to. He is not going to be having problems dealing with anger because he's been 'sheltered for so long'. If anything, this would just stop the problems appearing earlier. It is the amount of stimulus or stress which causes problems, not their previous absence. The implication of what you're saying is that, if an autistic person is thrown in at the deep end early in life and not 'sheltered', they will learn to cope. It's not true. He hasn't been spoiled, he hasn't failed to learn because of lack of discipline, he's suffering because of an input of stress.

The trick with meltdowns is to de-escalate. Do a web-search on handling autistic meltdowns, and look for videos of what they're like. Meltdowns aren't tantrums, they don't come from social concerns, and they aren't necessarily violent. Every time I hear of meltdowns leading to violence (as opposed to shouting and slamming), if I scratch the surface, it turns out they were escalated. If he is pushing people, it is quite possible that this is because they physically or sensorily assault him when he's already in meltdown. If he's tactile-defensive, he will feel being grabbed or touched when in an aroused state as if he had just been stabbed through the arm, and respond accordingly. The golden rules in handling meltdowns: calm voice, don't threaten, don't touch. Remove stressors from the situation. Quite possibly, don't argue until he's calm. The approach of threatening and escalating will make worst-case scenarios increasingly likely. This goes against NT instincts because so many people like to lay down the law, or at least to retaliate if they're being shouted at. You need to unlearn these instincts: they're unhelpful, and they're as much part of the problem as what your nephew is doing.

You need to get rid of this entire rhetoric of “consequences”, “unacceptable behaviours” and the rest. It is unhelpful in dealing with what are usually unmet needs. Meltdowns are not intentional. Do not threaten, he's suffering too much already, and threatening is escalation: it could add to the stress factors causing the meltdowns (even if it's done later). Throwing him out won't stop the meltdowns, it will just put them somewhere you can't see, sweep them under the carpet. And the threatened retaliations by NT's protective of their standards of “acceptability” are potentially disastrous: are you ready for the possibility that he could leave home and die because he can't meet his own needs, or it will push his depression over the edge to suicide, or he could be locked up for life in solitary confinement because he has repeated meltdowns in custody? Are your delicate ears really worth life imprisonment or the death penalty? It really is a case of the truly vulnerable people being victimised to protect the over-cultivated delicacy of the privileged. 'Society' expects far too much, and is indulged far too much in its demands. It wasn't that long ago that 'society' was so shocked at the sight of people on crutches, or of men kissing in public, that it locked them up. Today we're still in the same situation with problems like autistic meltdown. Just as some gay men could be trained to pass as straight, so some autistic people (not all) can be 'therapised' into not appearing to have meltdowns. But ultimately the problem is an unstoppable obstacle, and only a change of frame will help. If 'society' faces the immovable rock of insoluble emotional problems, then 'society' must move. Anything which stops 'society' from realising it needs to move, and make more allowances for people, is part of the problem.

I think that it's quite right to say: screaming and slamming are OK, let's try to make sure it doesn't reach violence against people. Screaming distresses NT people, but it's morality-dependent distress: if they learn that autistic people do this, and it isn't aggression directed at them (it's an effect of painful inner experiences), and they stop imagining that it's 'taking advantage' or 'being sheltered/spoilt' or 'not knowing social norms' or 'needing consequences' or some kind of power-play or otherwise about them, they can learn not to be distressed by it. As to whether it ever goes away, this varies with the person. Some people are able to control certain problems, some aren't. You need to be aware that someone going on drugs or into counselling might work, or it might make no difference whatsoever (very often, these are designed for NT's); occasionally, it might even make it worse (e.g. SSRI's if he has a 'mood disorder'). Also be aware that conformity to dominant norms is not always an option at all. There are some autistic people who effectively need protecting from 'society' by keeping away from it as far as possible. Quite probably, someone living with an autistic person who has meltdown problems will have to put up with a certain amount of raised voices and slamming. Meltdowns can be headed off, but once someone is in full scale meltdown, it will be expressed come what may. Try to reason with him to avoid actual destructiveness – not with threats, but by explaining that it hurts others and trying to convince him that he doesn't want that, or doesn't believe in that. (I don't think threats and guilt-tripping work well with autistic people, and if he's got low IQ, then doubly so).

PS: don't listen to some of the aspie people on here who are reinforcing disciplinary nonsense. Remember that aspies often have rigid outlooks; if these people have never shouted (or worse, if they're auditory-defensive and actually hurt by shouting), or if they have anger management problems which were easily and simply solved because they're high-functioning and the underlying stress was easily identified and eliminated, they aren't necessarily going to sympathise that their own experience doesn't apply to someone else. And if they've mapped their personal standards onto social 'moralities', they might be unreasonably rigid in applying them to every possible case (exactly the same as your nephew expecting people will always answer the phone right away). They aren't necessarily going to realise that the cruel, blunt approach they counsel is going to do immeasurable damage if the person affected is much lower-functioning than they are and/or is genuinely unable to stop. What Glass says, in terms of catching it before it happens, is very possible for some high-functioning people, but for someone with low IQ, they may not be able to spot their own build-up signs before a meltdown. It might be a matter of other people doing so. Jackbus meanwhile... well, if he was living in Nazi Germany I'm sure he'd tell the Jews to stop being so Jewish, since society has decided it isn't acceptable. Maybe it's fair, maybe it's not, but it's the way “life” (the system) is, and if they don't stop being so Jewish, they'll be off to the camps (and don't try hiding them in your attic, that's just shielding them from 'society'). I'd advise against listening to his argument... for one thing, drugs for bipolar won't deal with straight autistic meltdowns, they affect meltdowns arising from extreme 'manic' states, which have a very different causal dynamic. And for another, the fact that some social convention exists does not mean that it's possible for someone to comply. If it isn't, then adding your own condemnation onto 'society's' will only make matters worse. Actually, it is precisely the intolerance and judgementality of society which is often the reason why parents and other carers often seem excessively protective, and why some people are not 'exposed to the world' earlier... Believe me, you'll get a lot further working to identify stressors causing meltdown, looking for unmet sensory needs, or looking to catch meltdowns before they happen than you will trying to make a person 'normal' or to make them conform whether they like it or not. (And, yes, I'm also speaking from experience; I no longer have meltdowns very often; and threats and punishments only ever made me less, not more, likely to change).

Thanks for your response Aspie1968. I value everyones opinion on this site and listen to all advice given. I have read many books on Aspergers (all within the past year) and I am understanding more and more of the difficulties of society on those with Asperger's. My nephew has been better lately and I think it took these intense meltdowns for all of us (his parents and close family) to understand. He is a very sociable person (at least he wants to be) and he pushes himself. I just wanted to make it clear that none of us push this on him, this is his choice. I now realize along with his parents that he has to find a way to deal with the rejection of some without taking it out on his parents, etc. We will continue to support him and help him in every way possible; however, I do feel that behavioral therapy is necessary so that he can understand why these meltdowns are occuring. Thanks for all of the helpful advice.

Does he see his meltdowns as a problem himself? I just thought later after posting, it's quite possible he doesn't realise he's hurting/upsetting his parents. Even though I'm high-functioning, I was around your nephew's age before I even realised that NT people could suffer (even perspective-dependently) from symptoms of meltdown short of physical violence; this wasn't helped by having to be defensive for a long time, not realising that meltdowns didn't have to be either 'my fault' or 'justified responses'. If threats etc have worked for some people then it might be because it communicates the impact on others (all the therapy sites say that punishment/threats as such don't work for meltdowns because the brain-bit which processes consequences is switched-off at the time). It can be communicated more directly in other ways though. NT people tend to under-express their emotional pain, especially after the event. I started feeling meltdowns as an external (not just inner) problem only when my family got a dog, as the dog expressed its concern about meltdowns very directly, and without threats (usually by hiding under the sideboard). Anyway, meltdowns cause so much subjective suffering that it should not be hard to persuade someone to find ways to stop having them if it's possible, simply from their subjective impact. However, this impact is sometimes managed by state-dependent memory.

Behavioural therapy may be very helpful in finding alternative outlets/diffusions for the same emotions (i.e. writing, drawing, walking, screaming into a pillow, counting to ten...) - some of the things that have been mentioned already, and probably quite a few more; it won't necessarily account for *why* he has meltdowns, but it will hopefully help him manage the pre-meltdown phase better, without going to full meltdown. To get to the "why", he'll need to become reflexive about his emotions, so as to identify sensory and emotional triggers... that's going to be hard for someone with low IQ as well as autism, but his parents may be able to keep lists of correlating factors which could help determine triggers. It's possible that some kind of emotional language training might help identify such problems, and that talking about emotional states day-to-day would help, though I've only heard of these approaches being used with children.

Apologies if I misread the situation as the family pushing him to socialise! If he's created this obligation on himself, or it expresses a desire for more human contact, he'll need to learn to be more aware of his limits, and he'll need to learn a bit about how NT minds work. If he can read, I'd suggest the iautistic website and Autism Survival Guide as sources for autistic explanations of NT social functioning.

Thanks Aspie1968. Unfortunately, prior to my last post (a few weeks ago), my nephew got a little out of control in the car (after being told by a girl not to call so much), and hit his mom on the arm. He had to be Baker Acted a couple of days after. It was horrible and no one wanted to, but it was the only way to get him under control. Things have definitely been better since. I'm not sure if my nephew realized what he'd done or his parents have backed off some, but he hasn't had any issues within the last week and half. We still feel that the cognitive behavior therapist will help in this situation but it also helps hearing from people like yourself to understand things better. You sound like you have come a long way and I help my nephew will do the same. We all love him very much and wish nothing but the best for him.

Sounds to me like he (and you) are rather lucky he didn't go the way of Stephen Neary. "Had to" / "only way" is not really accurate, since it isn't really helping the situation, though I appreciate you / his parents felt this way subjectively. My guess is the psychiatrists took one look at him and said, he's autistic, he has meltdowns, he's not acting violently most of the time, and we can't lock up all the millions of people who might conceivably hit someone during a meltdown (and if he doesn't hit during every meltdown, there will be situational factors which caused it in one case but not another). The lucky part is that he presumably didn't go into recurrent meltdown caused by his imprisonment, which would have caused a vicious circle from which he would never have escaped. The risk posed to him by this course of action is incomparably greater than the risk posed by his meltdowns, and it is neurologically impossible that he could have stopped having meltdowns because of being 'punished' (and there'd be some very annoyed psychiatrists if they thought the procedure was being used 'to bring someone under control'). On the other hand, a person can become sufficiently afraid of going into meltdown that they develop social anxiety and avoidance, which would produce a temporary lull, until frustration starts to build up again.

I have doubts as to whether CBT can work with meltdowns as such, because it works on the brain-parts which switch off during meltdown. It might, however, be able to reach pre-meltdown states or triggers, for instance by desensitising stimuli which cause meltdown. Google "autism meltdown crisis information", the top hit seems to be from a CBT or related perspective and gives some idea of what in their repertoire might work and what probably won't (it's about children, but the techniques probably aren't that different for adults). I wonder if they have a manual for autistic meltdown, or if they'll just use standard anger management stuff. If they're trying to desensitise, then the more information can be provided about triggers, the better they'll do it, but expect rough times along the way (i.e. the process is stressful and could cause meltdowns). Also, I hope they've grown out of aversion therapy and the like... *shudder*. TBH I'm surprised they didn't come up with SSRI's or beta-blockers first, since they seem to affect overload in some cases.

Not real encouraging words Aspie1968. Seems like there are mixed messages out there. Most seem to think that these meltdowns that he has are extreme and can be controled by behaviorial therapy. Something has to help. I realize his parents also need more training, but no one especially his mother who is much smaller than him could deal any other way than she did recently with the situation. He was not put into a prison, it was a place for those with Asperger's etc that can control there meltdowns. From what I can tell he was not traumatized from the event; however, I know his parents were. He is a great kid and we know that he's going to get better as he matures ... it seems recently that he has been so much better in dealing with everything. I'm not blind enough to know that these situations won't occur again, but I feel that because of it, things have changed with him and his parents. As I said, we love him very much and will do everything in our power to see that he finds the answers that he needs to get him through life.