why are we medicating so many of our children?

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aurea
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24 Mar 2011, 4:22 pm

I just wanted to say that I personally didn't take offense at you natterjack. I have at others in the past but your comments were very mild and were considerate enough to say that you weren't including all who medicated and that you hadn't walked in anyone else's shoes. :)

Yes there need to be more alternative services and therapies made available to not just children but adults and families of someone on the spectrum.


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Mama_to_Grace
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24 Mar 2011, 4:30 pm

I also did not think the op was offensive. It is an undisputed fact that many children are medicated without the proper evaluations and proper professionals doing the prescribing. Maybe not the children on these boards but the ramifications of medicating uselessly or arbitrarily, and without proper guidance can be devastating long term. The fact the PDocs are prescribing psychotropic drugs is alarming.

Also, I don't think a lot of parents are getting the full disclaimer prior to trying drugs. Many drugs are used for "off label" purposes. It is horrific when YOUR child is the .001% that has an extreme side effect that was never mentioned.

It's a personal decision, one that should never be taken lightly or without proper research. We must always be willing to ask ourselves if the risks are worth the potential benefits.



DW_a_mom
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24 Mar 2011, 4:30 pm

Kailuamom wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
We can and should keep reminding them of the other things they can and should be doing, we can and should remind them of the side effects and negatives to keep eyes open for, and we can help them keep an eye out for warning signs that medication was actually more harmful than helpful but, after that, we have to trust their judgment.


DW a mom, I guess I was reacting to the idea that anyone should "get" to decide which case is justified and which is not AND the idea that then we on a frikken support forum would take it upon ourselves to remind each other of the inherant dangers.

So, thanks for saying that you think in my DS's case meds are warranted, but even that I find hurtful. Not to pick on you, but it's a really personal issue and much more difficult than can be judged by another poster. I don't like to hear that you will "trust my judgement" and then "remind them of.....".


Perhaps at times I try too hard to make everyone feel that their ideas are supported to some extent ... and, well, posting this time of year I'm probably not in best form. I'm a basket case in real life right now for the most part, because of work issues, and come here when I'm most rattled just because I don't know what else to do with myself. So ... my apologies. I was trying to strike a balance I wasn't really succeeding at, obviously.

It is a highly emotional issue. I think this site can make sure parents all the information their doctors may not be taking the time to tell them, then that's it, we're done.

I agree that there are times that not offering the child a medication that could help him is a way of abusing the child. But I would never reach that conclusion because it's so hard to know.

Related but separate point: either way a parent is leaning, unless the child is super young, I do feel the child should be involved in the conversation.


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BurntOutMom
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24 Mar 2011, 4:58 pm

I am, perhaps, guilty of latching onto the hurtful words and forgetting, or missing, the rest. For that, I am sorry. Perhaps I was also quick to self-defend with you (though I waited HOURS to calm down), because I constantly doubt if I'm doing the right thing. In my son's case, they have added diagnoses year after year... and it makes me wonder, what if they're all wrong? What if there's nothing wrong with him and he's just a turd? What if I'm just a bad parent and his "issues" are a result of ME NOT DOING SOMETHING RIGHT! What if it's really a completely different diagnosis? What if the meds are just making him worse? What if there is a better med/treatment that no one is telling me about? Your rant hit me in every fear...

And I do agree, the medical professionals do not give enough, if any, alternative options. And, as I have found, when you inquire about alternative treatments they are nothing short of belittling and dismissive.

I'm sorry if I focused on the negative aspects of your rant. I try to admit when I am wrong, but I am also trying to not keep things so bottled up as well. It's a hard balance.

A side comment.... One of the only things that has made it "okay" in my mind to medicate my child is to realize that, according to the doctors, parts of his brain don't work the way they're supposed to and that some of his problems are chemical. Medications can, supposedly, help correct those problems or make it easier for him to deal with. And though I know this is different, I loosely equate it to this... Would you tell a diabetic that taking insulin is not the right choice for them, as their issues could be regulated through diet? - 1) this is not always the case... and 2) though at this point, my son's situation isn't life-threatening... I've read that some people become suicidal... If a pill can regulate those chemicals and possibly make life easier for him to cope with, you bet your ass I'm going to do that for him.



Egal
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24 Mar 2011, 5:46 pm

BF's son is autistic, ADHD. If he doesn't get his patch with Ritalin, it's pretty bad. He gets so hyper it's like a desperate mania, you can tell he doesn't enjoy it. We know the patch isn't ideal since it suppresses C.'s appetite and seems to have a druglike effect when he's coming on and off it.

BF is trying out a lot of alternative nutrition solutions but it may be awhile before we can dare to take off the patch. Goat milk (just about to go to raw milk), probiotics, digestive enzymes, Epsom salt poultices for magnesium. I hope if C. can get into a good behavior groove we can try applying the patch for shorter times and see what happens.

I take generic Zoloft (Sertraline) for depression, 50 mg/day. It helps smooth out the edges, avoid social anxiety and keep down the suicidal thoughts. Not that I've ever actually attempted suicide but I've had suicidal thoughts and depression since about 12. Depression often felt like a chemical drenching my brain and it came on with the advent of puberty. Zoloft removes the deep pits, the occasional mania and tamps down the suicidal thoughts which occur with much less frequency. It also helps tone down the awkward self-destructiveness in social situations. Zoloft really does have an effect on me, mostly positive, so I don't understand people who claim all anti-depressants are evil or placebos.

As another indication of its effects, I remember in junior high sometimes I would feel this "zap" going through my body repeatedly, almost like an electric shock. This was not a fever. When going on and off Zoloft, more when going off, I have had that "zap" again. Maybe the brain and nervous system going haywire from neurotransmitter imbalances.

Yeah meds have to be adjusted for dosage and sometimes you have to try a number of different kinds. The first time I was on Zoloft they put it at 100mg and this temporarily killed my libido and gave me vivid (but interesting) nightmares. 50 mg is a good fit.

Maybe some people just need talk therapy or special nutrition, but I think I have a biological imbalance which needs chemical correction. I don't consider it a crutch any more than somebody taking meds for an inherited condition with their kidneys, heart, or whatever body organ.

p.s. I have been reading this site and looked at the Female Asperger's list ... I have a lot of the indicators and I'm pretty sure I'm on the spectrum or at least orbiting it.



BurntOutMom
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24 Mar 2011, 6:07 pm

Egal- Thank you. My son has been on 25mg of sertraline for a year now, and I have only seen good results. All outward manifestations of his anxiety (repetitive behaviors, most meltdowns, teeth grinding, etc) went away within days. He no longer seems uncomfortable in his own skin. He even seems to be sleeping better, which was an issue long before he was put on ADHD meds. Now his only meltdowns come from personal confrontation, and occasionally math.

I appreciate knowing how it feels for you and I know it's probably not the same for everyone, but he really can't explain to me how he feels on the meds vs. off the meds. Perhaps I'm not putting my questions in a way that he knows how to answer, maybe he just isn't aware of a difference.. I don't know.

How much simpler would it be if we could just "tap in" and get the answers straight from Mr Brain?.... Unfortunately, the answers have to be filtered through Mr. Ben.... and that just doesn't work out.



Chronos
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24 Mar 2011, 6:17 pm

As much as it can be inappropriate to medication, it can also be inappropriate not to medicate. There isn't anything inherent to AS for which I advocate using medication for. The child is generally no more difficult to handle than a cat in a dog pen, and most negative behavior is from the dogs attempting to interact with the cat as if it were a dog, to use an analogy.

However some disorders, such as schizphrenia, OCD, and bi-polar disorder, Tourette's, and true ADHD may very well warrant medication.

Despite the fact that I was essentially an unwilling test subject for SSRI's as a child, I do not prescribe to the concept of big bad pharma or the notion that herbal remedies are more benign than synthetic phramaceuticals and I think people do not give the phramaceutical industry credit due for all of the good their medications have done.

But concerning AS, you are correct in that it generally is not appropriate to medicate, and parents do it because they don't know how to handle their children, or can't actually cope with the fact that their children are different, or perceive these differences as horrible for the child.



Kailuamom
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24 Mar 2011, 6:42 pm

natterjack wrote:
Today i came on here looking for help, only to be horrified by the sheer amount of people who seem to use medication on thier children, does anybody know the future effects these strong meds can have on our future adults, antipsychotics, amphetamines, antidepressants.


When you enter a room and notice that many people in the room are doing something you are HORRIFIED by, do you typically announce how HORRIFIED you are to the room? Do you think the people in the room will all say, wow, thanks, never thought of that???

So, I think they were pretty strong words, and not particularly sensitive. That said, it is your experience and I don't have an issue with anyone sharing their experience. I don't agree with you, and likely never will.

I was actually more concerned with the overall concept that it is acceptable for anyone here to judge who meds are and are not appropriate for.

I think we all come here for support, with our own baggage. We should try to lighten the load while knowing that we really don't know what's in each other's bags.

And Chronos, what if the cat had to keep living with the dogs and there was no changing that? That very fact could end up making the cat crazy.



ediself
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24 Mar 2011, 7:15 pm

Kailuamom wrote:
And Chronos, what if the cat had to keep living with the dogs and there was no changing that? That very fact could end up making the cat crazy.


A lot of people still have faith in the fact that if you educate the dogs in the fact that this cat is not a defective dog but a cat in perfect working order, they might get it and stop demanding it barks.



Kailuamom
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24 Mar 2011, 7:29 pm

ediself wrote:
Kailuamom wrote:
And Chronos, what if the cat had to keep living with the dogs and there was no changing that? That very fact could end up making the cat crazy.


A lot of people still have faith in the fact that if you educate the dogs in the fact that this cat is not a defective dog but a cat in perfect working order, they might get it and stop demanding it barks.


Even if the dogs stop demanding that the cat doesnt bark, the cat still thinks the dogs are stupid and annoying and loud and clumsy. The cat is still all alone and sick of being with the stupid dogs.

Actually in my son's case, he just wants to be a dog. No matter how much I tell him that we are a cat family - he is terribly upset that the unrelated kid dogs don't like him.



ediself
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24 Mar 2011, 8:02 pm

Kailuamom wrote:
he is terribly upset that the unrelated kid dogs don't like him.

Do you mean, puppies? :lol: I love this metaphore... He's not the only cat in the dog pen though :wink: sometimes it helps to remember it! Look for the kitten hiding in the bushes building rockets or reading books :D



missykrissy
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24 Mar 2011, 9:52 pm

natterjack wrote:
......Oh and antipsychotics WTF!! !! !! ! at five, do you want him locked up by 18, probably the drugs dont help, try homeopathy, placebo pills any thing but, we are all aware how much medical bodies make from the drug companies, Why does half of America have the children on drugs, what kind of future is being created, it was never needed before, its not needed now, i wish people would open thier eyes, children need lots of time, love and a large dose of nature, sorry to go of on a tangent, thats one thing that makes me sooo sad. My son is 13 and has asperger, it has been a long hard ride, and will continue to be, he was so angry this mornin he was going to "slit my throat" but these are just words,


i found this comment you made on my thread increadibly offensive. i read it then went back to the 'parents discussion' board and found this thread which is obviously based on the comment you left on my thread and aimed at me and others in similar possitions.
so, you have a kid on the spectrum that doesn't need medication. good for you. i also have 2 other kids on the spectrum, in fact i suspect all my kids are on the spectrum. only one is on medication. i have been asked to put the other two on medication which i refused to do because it isn't necessary. my 12yo says things like what your son said to you and she doesn't need medication. i am not trying to get my 5yo in jail when he's older. i'm trying to keep him from being institutionalized now. not that it's any of your buisness. i just wanted to show that while you say you aren't pointing out anyone specific you sure did in this post. i tried everything i knew of before going for the medication. we also started him on a dose so low we had to get an emulsion made at a special pharmacy to give him because they don't make doses that low. we worked him up to an amount that made him improved enough that we thought we can deal with the rest and that he wasn't harming himself anymore. the doctors recommended twice now that we up his dose and i've refused because i don't think it's necessary. the violent streak is mostly under control and the rest we will work on other ways. while i understand the type of problems you are dealing with you clearly have no idea what some of us have/are going through.



aurea
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24 Mar 2011, 9:57 pm

I love this metaphor too :D

Let your son know that dogs can be trained to get along with cats. Even the most seemingly vicious dog can be trained, it's all about the motivation.

What can help is arming your kid with the latest coolest trend. What has helped my kitten get along with the pups in the playground is his love of console games and his growing understanding of his own personal differences and limitations.


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Kailuamom
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24 Mar 2011, 10:04 pm

FYI - In our real world, my 90# dog thinks she the cat's momma. They cuddle and snuggle.

My poor kitten (now in metaphor again) has all of the coolest stuff and now says that his only two friends only hang with him for his stuff. He's pretty smart (and incredibly good at LittleBigPlanet.)



Chronos
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24 Mar 2011, 11:04 pm

Kailuamom wrote:
ediself wrote:
Kailuamom wrote:
And Chronos, what if the cat had to keep living with the dogs and there was no changing that? That very fact could end up making the cat crazy.


A lot of people still have faith in the fact that if you educate the dogs in the fact that this cat is not a defective dog but a cat in perfect working order, they might get it and stop demanding it barks.


Even if the dogs stop demanding that the cat doesnt bark, the cat still thinks the dogs are stupid and annoying and loud and clumsy. The cat is still all alone and sick of being with the stupid dogs.

Actually in my son's case, he just wants to be a dog. No matter how much I tell him that we are a cat family - he is terribly upset that the unrelated kid dogs don't like him.


Dogs are generally easy to fool. After all, they fall for that ball throwing trick over and over again. A cat certainly can never be a dog but as far as being accepted by dogs, it just needs to be taught some basics on how to act like a dog.



Kailuamom
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25 Mar 2011, 11:47 am

To take it to the next step, my pup is always complaining that the only puppies that like him are those he has fooled into thinking that he is a really cool pup with all of the best puppy toys. He wants the pups to like him as a cat, who secretely wishes he was a dog. He is not satisfied that he has tricked the dogs to think he's a dog and then in a weak moment he acts catlike and the pups either go in for the kill or scatter.

By the way, our cat doesn't like other cats.

It's complicated and hard and one "cat's" experience cannot be generalized to all "cats".

Last night I found out that my precious kitten was cutting himself. To get back to the original post here, I have to say straight up - if there was a pill that would take away my baby's suffering, I would have him take it in a minute. I think anyone who could say otherwise is heartless.