Circumcision

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Our ped told us at 4 it should be loose and this was true with older son. There was never any forcing involved, just following advice given by our ped. The irritation was from not being able to clean it properly. I don't think I'll be taking any medical advice from wikipedia any time in the near future.

Here is another one if you like http://www.kidshealth.org.nz/index.php/ ... /pi_id/266. You can look anywhere and find the same information and your Ped would not be the first to do this. In the US the foreskin is considered dirty but in actuality it is there to protect the penis, you DONT need to clean it. I just wanted to tell you in case you have another son and to let other people be aware. I understand you were just following your doctors advice but like I said some in the US are uneducated in this area. I had a nurse try to force back my sons foreskin and I stopped her and Im sorry but if your sons foreskin was retracted at that young of an age it was most likely forced! It could have been slowly forced by cleaning but still. Also your doctor is wrong in saying that the foreskin should be retractable at age 4, that is very rare. I followed ignorant advice too and circumcised my first son who is now 24. You dont need to get angry about it, Im just giving you and others who read this current information.
In France circumcision is considered mutilation.

Just to add to this... the tightness of the foreskin in young boys has been compared to the hymen in girls. When hormone levels begin to increase in prepuberty is about the time that the foreskin loosens and retracts on its own. There is a wide variety of 'normal' - much younger and older - but around 10-12 is considered quite normal. Many young boys are diagnosed with phimosis (a tightening of the foreskin) and the remedy is forceable retraction and/or circumcision. Forceable retraction by an uneducated nurse or physician could cause adhesions, scarring and discomfort not to mention alot of pain. (again, compare this with the tearing of the hymen - it would be considered the counterpart) Phimosis is an ADULT dx for an abnormality long after puberty - not a childs dx. The inner surface of the foreskin in considered a mucus membrane and protects the sensitive internal organ much the same as secretions of the vagina protect a girl's internal anatomy. The foreskin has many functions and purposes - it is not 'extra skin'.

Liloleme is quite correct - too many doctors in the US know very little about this subject and are taught shockingly little about this highly functional part of the male anatomy other than how to amputate it. Thankfully, people are beginning to question this practice and doctors are slowly but surely starting to take note and, most importantly, LEARN.

I've been avoiding this thread because I don't see what it has to do with autism and think it was a bit of a trollish thing to post (I never looked at the OP's link).... Nevertheless ... my son is not circumcised mostly for some of the reasons already stated and because his father and my ex have both expressed deep resentment at having it done to them. In regard to the cleaning issue, I never put any extra effort into cleaning that area and my son has never had any irritation there in spite of being one of those kids who messes his diaper and doesn't tell anyone and having sensitive skin.... I would also think using anything but the mildest of soaps there could cause irritation.

Once a family member watched my son for a few hours and changed his diaper ... they confided with much concern afterward that they thought my son's penis was deformed and that I should tell the pediatrician.... That family member had never seen an uncircumcised baby boy and didn't realize that's what they're really supposed to look like!

That actually just made me think of something that does relate this to autism, my son will likely not be potty trained when he starts school, what are the chances that whomever changes his diaper in school will ignorantly try to pull his foreskin back to clean him?

You can play it safe and let them know because so many boys are clipped in the US and let them know that the foreskin is not to be pushed back under any circumstances (hehe, circumstances....circumcised, Ok Im easlily amused)!

EXACTLY

There are diaper stickers available for this. 'I'm intact, DON'T RETRACT!"

WOW, what a way to put it!

Yeah I just assume people wont be tempted to randomly mess around with my sons willy for no apparent reason

Too many horror stories of US doctors and nurses just automatically retracting baby boys on routine visits... then wondering why he's crying hysterically... In the US, better safe than sorry.

I don't know if I could make myself bring it up, or I might forget when the time comes ... I've already decided to delay school - secretly I hope to have him potty trained and talking by then, I like the sticker idea though!

Do you think some doctors/caregivers who support circumcision retract the foreskin prematurely on purpose to create irritation just to make parents feel like they made the wrong choice in not circumcising?

I'm not quite that jaded yet! I don't think anyone wants to intentionally harm a boy by retracting - I simply think they are uninformed and ignorant of how to care for an uncut boy. Really, it is so much easier than they imagine. Do they rinse out a girls vagina every time they change her diaper? Of course not. Basically, it's the same care for a boy. Clean what you can see and leave the rest alone. It is a self managing system. Sometimes just that little bit of explanation is all new information for a babysitter, family member, daycare or even a nurse or a doctor.

The act of circumcising is another matter all together. Doctors who peform them are in some sort of denial. It is an excruciating procedure for babies. They basically cry themselves into shock - yet the doctor's convice themselves they have just 'quieted down'. They can only use very limited anestethic on an infant if they use it at all. That old belief that babies don't feel pain or feel less pain has been unwequivocally proven to be false. Infants actually feel more pain. And then there is the beleif that 'well, they don't remember it anyway...' New studies are proving that the trauma of circumcision changes the brain chewmistry and structure of an infant for life.

Doctors oath says 'first, do not harm'. It never rang truer than it does on this issue.

I guess I am that jaded. You're right about the doctor's oath,

I don't even want to tell you what those morons did with ME! When I was a little kid! I had a hernia operation, and they cut my URETHRA! ON PURPOSE! When I woke up, and asked the nurse WHY, she said the doctor did it to make it easier for me to go to the restroom!

1. I NEVER said I had a problem!
2. It had NO chance of making anything easier!
3. It made it PAINFUL, because the cut was OPEN, and urine didn't make it feel better!
4. It added scar tissue so the stream that was once predictable no longer really is.
5. I wasn't even operated on in that area!

LUCKILY, nobody would have to know, even looking closely, you would have trouble telling. Outside of urinating, there is no functional difference.

But I will always wonder WHY they did it!

So SERIOUSLY, DON'T assume hospitals are logical AT ALL!

And WHY do they circumcise kids? I have heard several stories, TRUE STORIES, about males having their penises DESTROYED! SOME go through life with STUMPS, and some are given stealth "sex change" operations! They DO have gadgets that make it ALMOST foolproof, but tere are enough fools out there to figure out a way to defeat it.

BTW at least one boy, that was "changed" to a girl got a "sex change" operation to change back to a male. The good stuff they STOLE from him would make him almost normal, but it is GONE! It was thrown away LITERALLY as so much garbage! IRONIC! So they stole the experience of youth as a male, the hormones, the chance to have his own kid, his ability to be masculine without getting shots, and/or spending a fortune, and time/money to recover only the APPEARANCE of that! And WHY? Because they committed MALPRACTICE by destroying his penis. And WHY? CIRCUMCISION! And WHY? WHY? WHY!?!?!?!?

BTW just to clarify. I was circumcised when I was still a baby. Apparently all went well. I like the look, but it WOULD have been nice to have more skin there. When I was very young, it was almost like a turtleneck, and WAS better. ALSO, if the crown gets sensitive, it can rub against fabric, and keep one excited, if they are circumcised. And the cut to my urethra was maybe 1/4", about 7mm, and INSIDE the penis. It didn't really affect the crown. I noticed it the moment I woke up.

Last edited by 2ukenkerl on 02 Aug 2011, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It is truer in case of lobotomy and shock thereapy. In case of circumcision at least harm is just a side effect. But for lobotomy and shock therapy harm is the ultimate goal of the treatment.