4th Grade 'No Excuses" List

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update: I spoke with my daughter's special ed teacher and she read into my concerns pretty clearly. She assured me what type of teacher this new teacher is and we arranged a meeting to address everything. Classroom expectations, the lack of a teachers aid in the class (or in any 4th grade class!) and we are going to have what will be almost a mini IEP meeting first thing next week. The BEST news - the school councelor that has been such a nightmare IS GONE! There is someone new in her position and I couldn't be more thrilled!

Now, if I can only keep it together in the meeting we'll be good to go.

It's fine that "there are no aids in 4th grade classrooms," but the school is still obligated to meet your child's educational needs! It is important, during the "mini IEP" meeting, that you bring up any concerns you have about how your child's needs for supports that were previously met by an aid will now be met. They can't just act like your daughter has to "pick up the slack" if she still needs IEP supports - they still have to provide specialized instruction and accommodations. Don't tell them they have to have an aid - ask them how they are going to provide her with the supports she continues to need because of her documented disability.

If you have a friend or family member (particularly one who is supportive and/or knows your daughter well), who can come with you to the meeting, it could be very helpful - both to help take notes, and to be an extra set of eyes and ears. That person could also help keep you on track, if necessary. But most of all, you'd have the moral support of having someone there with you, on your side.

Good luck at the meeting, have a fabulous weekend, and congrats on the "disappearance" of the nightmare counselor!

My daughter has never needed an individual aide - what she needs is extra support for prompting and writing support to help support her executive function functions and her writing disability. up until 2nd grade she was in a room with an aide - generalized teacher support. We didn't realize, until last year when she didn't have one, how crucial that extra support had been. At the end of this last school year, her OT did a complete reevaluation and identified her issues specifically and wrote a sensory diet program into her IEP. She recommended additional classroom support to see this program through. The fourth grade classes have 30+ kids. There is simply no way a single teacher can provide the extra individual support my daughter needs no matter how good she may be.

This is a meeting that will include her teacher, her special ed teacher, the new school councelor, her OT and the principle. That's an IEP meeting to me! I was just trying ot meet her new teacher to get on the same page. They come back with this. I suppose my questioning the classroom support prompted it. So, my daughter does not need an aide to hover over her specifically. She just needs some extra help and prompting which a general classroom aide could provide while the teacher is doing her job and teaching. Considering that I have a fair idea of how many kids in her grade also have ADHD and other issues and could also benefit from this sort of help, I'm surprised more people aren't requesting it. It may be a fight. I'm just going to see what everyone has to say.

It will be just me and the hubby going to the meeting. Unfortunately, he and I don't see eye to eye on many things. I also have a significant problem with 'authority' figures. So, most of the time it is just me. No other family or friends to lean on. Hence why I bounce this sort of thing off of well meaning strangers. I don't have other options. And strangers tend to be a bit more objective which I greatly appreciate. I will spend the next few days getting my ducks in a row. Reread all the pertinent documents, rehearse my position, try to prepare responses for all possible arguements. Talk them out loud while driving in the car. I have a boatload of coping mechanisms I count on. The emotional part of it still eludes my control some of the time - especially when its confrontational. I do not expect this to be so.

I was grinning ear to ear and broke out in song yesterday - 'ding dong the witch is dead, the witch is dead - the wicked witch is dead..." Just for the record, I do not condone abusing witches but this one had to go! It will be a good weekend! Thank you!

Wow, that type of nitpicking would have made my sons grade 4 lives miserable. I'm glad you're addressing this.

And our school never takes "movement breaks" (meaning recess) away from kids who need them. That is just counter productive.

It's a real problem for so many kids - they don't need a 1-1, but they need more than a harried teacher with 30+ kids in a classroom can provide, and the school acts like each child is the only one and they can't put an aide or special ed teacher in the room for just the one child who doesn't need a 1-1 anyway! It's crazy. Happily, I'm mostly past the stage when I'm fighting these battles (my last child still in school is in a great placement!), but I used to use lots of plural language - "what are we going to do?" "We need to be sure that ..." "We all want to make sure that ..." "When we see that [child] is struggling with x, we want to ..." I tried to avoid any use of "I" or "you" language whenever I could. Even when I thought they were about to do something insane, I would say something like, "so, when [child] does y, would the plan be for us to do z? I'm afraid if we did z, [child] might ..." - as if I were part of the school plan, even though I might be thinking "there is no way in the world I would do z!"

Generally, I've found that when schools want to do things that you know will be terrible for your child, it's best if you can pull out an example of when another teacher tried that methodology with your child, and it was a disaster. If you did it, or someone else who wasn't a teacher did, it just doesn't have the same "authority."

It's hard when you and your husband don't agree. Does he think you're "coddling" your daughter? Has he spent time learning about her needs, and how, if she gets the supports she needs now, she is more likely to be independent and successful later? Obviously, he won't listen to you, but maybe he would "listen" to another website or book? or, if there is a professional (outside the school district) who works with your daughter? Getting on the same page with your husband can be really hard ... and really helpful.

Take some time to relax and enjoy yourself this weekend!

Great suggestion about using plural language - I'll start incorporating that thinking right now!

I actually have great faith in her educational team - it's only the 'money' issues that meet with resistance and, that used to be the domain of the old councelor so I'm trying to go in with an open mind. The OT being there will be the support we need since it is her changes that suggest the need.

And, indeed, the hubby thinks I coddle. It is fairly clear that he has a very basic (and slightly mistaken idea) about what Asperger's means. We just qualified for home services - not alot, only 3 hrs per week, but a part of that is going to be for 'parental education'. I know hearing some of these things from an 'authority' will sink in with him.

So, on to a beautful holiday weekend. Thanks again!

dupe - deleted

Last edited by draelynn on 02 Sep 2011, 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

This is way too extreme. How is that going to help a child with a disability? All I know is it will add stress and may not improve the issue at all. You can't punish away a disability. But how can someone not answer a question in a complete sentence?

I think it's extreme for any child, disability or not.

Just to be fair - this was sent to the entire class. And, as it was explained to me, it was intended to drive the point home with the kids. Unfortunately, it came home with my literal minded daughter - to her literal minded mom although, without knowing the teacher personally, there really are not many ways to interpret this thing. The teacher apparently isn't a heavy handed discipliner. I'll know more after meeting her next week.

I still think it's on the stern side too... intentions aside.

The letter the teacher sent home was not directed at your daughter specifically. It was directed at the students as a whole and the US is slipping behind other countries academically, to the point that it is starting to put as at a big disadvantage, because parents feel their children should be eased up on and take offence at the suggestion their child does not perform to grade, rather than feel they should work to bring their children up to speed. I am not speaking about you specifically. There are exceptions. I have apraxia and certain learning weaknesses myself, but even in light of those, you have to understand that disability or not, some of those skilles stressed in that take home note are skills your daughter will need to master in life eventually, especially putting her name on her paper.

When I was in mainstream classes in Jr. High I was an assistant for the science teacher. One of my jobs was to grade papers. If the person didn't put their name on the paper I couldn't grade it obviously because I didn't know who it belonged to. It happened to about three students that they received credit for absolutely none of their work and failed the course because they never put their name on their paper. This was Jr. High. An F didn't mean much of anything except upset parents. But imagine if it were high school, it could have impacted their ability to get into college. Imagine if it were a job application and they were qualified except for the fact that the application didn't have a name on it and HR didn't know who sent it.

You should speak with the teacher about your daughter's issues and see if she would be willing to work with your daughter to help her master these skills rather than get mad at the fact that she expects children to master them and has tried to give them incentive to do so.

And of kids in general, I do not feel it was heavy handed at all. Most children should have had these skills by 4th grade and if they don't it's usually just because they haven't been stressed by previous teachers.

Schools now teach to PSSA performance, almost exclusively. Math was the focus in 3rd grade - that was the only homework they assigned. Nothing but math. no spelling, no reading, no social studies no science. Just math. Because last year was a Math PSSA year. They do trial tests and cram sessions the week before where ALL they teach is math. This isn't college. This is grade school. And this approach is not making kids smarter or teaching any more effectively. And she doesn't need to put her name on the top of her test because its preprinted there. They spent a whole day teaching kids how to fill in the little boxes properly. And how to erase properly. And all these other test taking skills that serve no other purpose in real life. And this is why that letter may have been necessary in the first place. The teaching system is incredibly broken, so broken that a teacher needs to resort to threats.

I think maybe I didn't put the emphasis where it needed to be in all of this. I have no problem with the goals. And I agree, these basics do need to be standard by, at least 4th grade. I'm not questioning the work, I'm questioning the tone and approach of this letter. It is obvious to me that my daughter will struggle with the consistency they are looking for here but she has an IEP that addresses those issues specifically. If she is to be 'punished' for some sort of willful disregard for these rules (which she will not - she is entirely rules oriented) taking recess away from a child with a social disability and attention deficit issues is unacceptable. My daughter will make these goals - just maybe not at the same pace as her peers. And I would be remiss as her mother and her advocate to not make sure she is in the best possible environment to learn.

This teacher has not provided 'incentive' to her students with this letter. She has provided a threat. Threatening consequences for poor skill performance is antiqued and outdated because it is damaging. Especially if an individuals natural ability to perform the skill is somehow impaired. Setting up a fear mindset is not conducive to learning. Sending this letter home is also incredibly assumptive. It assumes this incoming class is somehow incompetent or lacking in these skills before she even learns their names. It is just baffling in many ways.