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werbert
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17 Sep 2006, 12:21 am

I'm beginning to suspect that I am not a visual thinker. I'm just lazy.



TheMachine1
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17 Sep 2006, 12:23 am

werbert wrote:
After reading the wikipedia article, I am no more enlightened than I was ten minutes ago.


Ah not sure what the wikipedia said. This lady has some interesting ideas:

http://www.borntoexplore.org/addexp~1.htm



werbert
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17 Sep 2006, 12:31 am

TheMachine1 wrote:
werbert wrote:
After reading the wikipedia article, I am no more enlightened than I was ten minutes ago.


Ah not sure what the wikipedia said. This lady has some interesting ideas:

http://www.borntoexplore.org/addexp~1.htm


I don't think I am any of those things.



TheMachine1
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17 Sep 2006, 12:41 am

werbert wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:
werbert wrote:
After reading the wikipedia article, I am no more enlightened than I was ten minutes ago.


Ah not sure what the wikipedia said. This lady has some interesting ideas:

http://www.borntoexplore.org/addexp~1.htm


I don't think I am any of those things.


Well thats good! Having ADHD or strong visual thinking in the right situation is
very good thing. But largely its not put to use in todays world.(well in a highly productive ways). So its a double edge thing. We still love you anyway.



violet_yoshi
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17 Sep 2006, 12:43 am

TheMachine1 wrote:
werbert wrote:
I once took a math lab course in which each student worked at his or her own pace and failed it miserably. I am too undisciplined to take a class without someone standing at the front of the room jibber-jabbering away, and with me taking notes. There's just no other way for me to learn about anything I'm not interested in.


Well what I have in mind is software (which likely does not exsist) that would do the
work of the teacher. Keeping you learning at all times. Forexample if it detected
you could not factor a certain polynomial type it would avoid that in other examples and
then go back to it at a better time. It would keep you working at a driven like a motor
pace. When it sence you were tire (via a eeg brainwaves) it would tell you get up drink
250 ml of Tang then jog in place for 5 minutes and take 5 minut bathroom break. Then It might switch subjects to English.


I think they have that, it's called kids' educational software. Sorry for sounding sarcastic, if I came across that way. It's just that I grew up learning from kids' educational games, and really they are like learning but fun. Also some of them, it seems more now, have a parent timer that's secured with a password. So you can set the amount of time the child can play the game, and then it'll say "You've got to quit now" or something when time's up.


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werbert
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17 Sep 2006, 12:49 am

TheMachine1 wrote:
We still love you anyway.

Somehow, I always knew.

I also don't think I have ADD/ADHD either, contrary to what some doctor told my parents when I was in second grade. I think he was just eager to sell some ritalin.

On the Born to Explore site, I found a list of traits associated with visual thinkers. The only ones that fit me were poor handwriting/uncoordination and creativity (I like to daydream), and perhaps being bad with details.



TheMachine1
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17 Sep 2006, 12:58 am

violet_yoshi wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:
werbert wrote:
I once took a math lab course in which each student worked at his or her own pace and failed it miserably. I am too undisciplined to take a class without someone standing at the front of the room jibber-jabbering away, and with me taking notes. There's just no other way for me to learn about anything I'm not interested in.


Well what I have in mind is software (which likely does not exsist) that would do the
work of the teacher. Keeping you learning at all times. Forexample if it detected
you could not factor a certain polynomial type it would avoid that in other examples and
then go back to it at a better time. It would keep you working at a driven like a motor
pace. When it sence you were tire (via a eeg brainwaves) it would tell you get up drink
250 ml of Tang then jog in place for 5 minutes and take 5 minut bathroom break. Then It might switch subjects to English.


I think they have that, it's called kids' educational software. Sorry for sounding sarcastic, if I came across that way. It's just that I grew up learning from kids' educational games, and really they are like learning but fun. Also some of them, it seems more now, have a parent timer that's secured with a password. So you can set the amount of time the child can play the game, and then it'll say "You've got to quit now" or something when time's up.


Yeah I downloaded alot of math shareware programs when I was brainstorming
my college alegbra software idea. And what I saw was totalily useless. One guy in
some European country even used different colors in text like program and called it
visual learning. What useless crap. I mean strong graphics engine using a 3-d render
like say povray that would make 3-D image of models for math problems. I would
relate all math operations to a physical 3-D problem. The volume of a box as ratio
to its surface area (division of polynomial) . The computer would show how if the volume of the boxes goes up its realtive surface area gets smaller. By visually showing
that in various ways. It could show how that concept relate to the size of biological
cells (why they are a certain size). It could do problems related to cell sizes.



werbert
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17 Sep 2006, 1:09 am

I have started a thread on visual thinking in the general autism forum. Why? Because I feel like it!

I am curious to know, TM1, do you own an abacus? Or have you ever found the use of one to be helpful in learning math?



KimJ
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17 Sep 2006, 1:13 am

Again, we're talking different strokes. Computer learning games can be helpful only if they teach within a particular context. One game my son has features "healthy foods" and it's set in a video game structure-he learns nothing from it at all. But another game features academic concepts and skills in order to play a video game later and he learns the information well. The problem is the repetition.

3-D software sounds alright for older people. But kids can easily learn from real world 3D objects. Coins, beans, and pictures are all very easy for children to handle and understand.



TheMachine1
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17 Sep 2006, 1:22 am

KimJ wrote:
Again, we're talking different strokes. Computer learning games can be helpful only if they teach within a particular context. One game my son has features "healthy foods" and it's set in a video game structure-he learns nothing from it at all. But another game features academic concepts and skills in order to play a video game later and he learns the information well. The problem is the repetition.

3-D software sounds alright for older people. But kids can easily learn from real world 3D objects. Coins, beans, and pictures are all very easy for children to handle and understand.


Yeah I'm thinking college algebra only and for teens and older.



werbert
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17 Sep 2006, 1:24 am

TheMachine1 wrote:
Yeah I'm thinking college algebra only and for teens and older.


I am taking college algebra right now.



TheMachine1
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17 Sep 2006, 4:13 am

werbert wrote:
TheMachine1 wrote:
Yeah I'm thinking college algebra only and for teens and older.


I am taking college algebra right now.


Yeah I know that would be the sweet spot in the Math software market!

I'm not a math expert but I did take Calculus III in college (required for chemistry
majors) My sister has a master degree in math so I though I would get her help
to. Its super important to master college algebra before you move on to higher math
otherwise you will be wasting time on review when you need to be learning new concepts.

Most advance students take cal I as their first college math class. I was out of school 6 years so I took college algebra and trig.

I would guess most simply only take college algebra. Oh I have ADHD and by the time I finish typing this I will move on to another idea so do not ask me for the software in the future! :)



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17 Sep 2006, 12:15 pm

I'm of two minds on the topic, really.

If they never have homework, how will they cope with the sudden influx of papers, studying, and so forth they'll have to do later, in college?

At the same time, how much of what we have children do is really for their benefit? It has always seemed to me that most children's activities have one central goal... to keep the child quietly slaving away, rather than running the risk the child might bother the adults in the vicinity. Surely there should be more important goals with the rearing of children than just keeping them out of your face as much as possible for 18 years?



KimJ
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18 Sep 2006, 6:46 pm

Compulsory education is a double-edge sword, brought on by two different movements (at least). Before school was required, sweat-shops employed children and forced them to work ungodly hours for little pay. sometimes the family was paid as a single employee and so the whole family had to work as a unit to increase production/$$. When child labor laws came about, something had to be done with children. Working moms couldn't stop working, children couldn't be allowed to run around.
On the other hand, there had been a movement to make education required so that the gov't could fund it better and so all children had a better chance to be educated.
Homework right now at my son's school is seen as a tangible way to force parents/custodians to sit with their kids and do something productive. There are other gauges schools use to measure parents' performance at home.
To say that early grades have homework to get kids ready for higher education isn't logical. You don't teach kids dating etiquette when they're 7, why prep them for term papers? College "homework" is altogether different anyways-it's project-oriented and students study subjects they're interested in.



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18 Sep 2006, 7:20 pm

TheMachine1 wrote:
I will make a bet that home school kids learn better and spend a hell of a lot less time
doing it. Thats not a slam of public education it a slam of the concept of a classroom
education. Lets be honest schools are baby sitters.


If the people doing the homeschooling are competent and patient, I'm sure that is true. In cases where it is true, I think it's because homeschools are indeed "schools," i.e. they focus strictly on learning. Regular schools seem to want to have their hands in just about everything but learning. THat was a common clash I had with the schools I went to, they were sticking their nose in my business. I think if it doesn't concern reading, writing, and arithmetic, it's none of the school's business.


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Hazelwudi
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19 Sep 2006, 1:10 am

KimJ wrote:
Compulsory education is a double-edge sword, brought on by two different movements (at least). Before school was required, sweat-shops employed children and forced them to work ungodly hours for little pay. sometimes the family was paid as a single employee and so the whole family had to work as a unit to increase production/$$. When child labor laws came about, something had to be done with children. Working moms couldn't stop working, children couldn't be allowed to run around.
On the other hand, there had been a movement to make education required so that the gov't could fund it better and so all children had a better chance to be educated.
Homework right now at my son's school is seen as a tangible way to force parents/custodians to sit with their kids and do something productive. There are other gauges schools use to measure parents' performance at home.
To say that early grades have homework to get kids ready for higher education isn't logical. You don't teach kids dating etiquette when they're 7, why prep them for term papers? College "homework" is altogether different anyways-it's project-oriented and students study subjects they're interested in.


I had a few more projects a year than in high school, but only a few. And ah, if only I could have studied subjects I was interested in... I hated the more "general ed" requirements with a passion. Things were better as an undergrad during my junior and senior years, once I'd gotten the lion's share of the general requirement bs out of the way.