Meltdown, over a potholder, really?!?!

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When it concerned their sib, my NT (more or less) eldest 2 had meltdowns over less than that.

We just recently switched his doctor. I was told, by his previous doc that the Risperdol was simply a mood stabilizer. I was told there would be no issues/conflicts. One of the first things his new doc did was change his dosing schedule. He now takes the Strattera at night, instead of in the morning, so missing his meds couldn't be the issue.
Which med are you referring to as a "very strong" med?

Why would the advice confuse him? What ideas would it give him?

Risperdol is not a mood stabilizer, it's an atypical antipsychotic.
From PubMed:
"Risperidone is used to treat the symptoms of schizophrenia (a mental illness that causes disturbed or unusual thinking, loss of interest in life, and strong or inappropriate emotions) in adults and teenagers 13 years of age and older. It is also used to treat episodes of mania (frenzied, abnormally excited, or irritated mood) or mixed episodes (symptoms of mania and depression that happen together) in adults and in teenagers and children 10 years of age and older with bipolar disorder (manic depressive disorder; a disease that causes episodes of depression, episodes of mania, and other abnormal moods). Risperidone is also used to treat behavior problems such as aggression, self-injury, and sudden mood changes in teenagers and children 5-16 years of age who have autism (a condition that causes repetitive behavior, difficulty interacting with others, and problems with communication). Risperidone is in a class of medications called atypical antipsychotics. It works by changing the activity of certain natural substances in the brain."

If he needs it for these reasons, fine, but it is a serious med. I can see where a doctor might prescribe it for serious aggression or self-injury. You might want to check it out.

His previous doctor prescribed it because he was having meltdowns/tantrums regularly. He would get frustrated at school over the smallest things. When the teacher tried to talk to him about the issue, he would lose it. He would cry, break crayons & insist he couldn't do what was being asked of him. At times, he would even yell at the teacher. He did shove his desk a few times, if really pushed. At home, he would have breakdowns over things that seemed rather petty. For instance, cleaning his room (which I recently found a way to get it finished without a tear), was guaranteed to induce a meltdown. He would claim it was too much/too hard and he would literally cry until he fell asleep. Within the past two weeks, he's had meltdowns for a variety of reasons, but they aren't as frequent, as we've taken a different approach on dealing with him. He had one the other day because his sister touched his sandwich. He was in tears, crying about how he couldn't eat it because she had touched it, but his father was trying to insist it was no big deal. I finally interrupted and told him that he could make another and his sister could eat the one she touched (which she had no problem with). After that, he was fine.

I've never had issues with him being violent toward me or his father. He's never tried to hurt a teacher or even another child without being provoked. He will refuse to do things and when someone tries to force him, he will lose self-control. He's thrown things, hit walls, kicked walls, broken toys, etc. He will retaliate if he is hit/shoved by another child, but I've never know him to actually start a fight for no reason.

I'm going to have to talk to his doctor about the meds. She said that we may be switching them at his next appointment, but we shall see.

My dd has done all that and then some, although never violent. It's better now at home. School is still problematic but she's not quite in the right environment. No way is she bipolar. There is no way in you know what I'd let them give her risperdal unless she was trying her best to bash kids with chairs or chew her arm off. Risperdal isn't quite as bad as the older antipsychotics but over time it still can cause tardive dyskinesia which is a movement disorder that can be permanent. Even for bipolar disorder, that wouldn't be a frontline med, only maybe during a serious manic episode. I mean kid thinking he can fly and trying to jump off the roof. I can sure see why you'd want the tantrums to stop.

If he is AS, which he very well could be, you might want to try figuring out if there are sensory triggers or maybe communication issues that are really truly making it difficult for him. Going that route has really cut down the meltdowns around here while actually improving discipline.

His teacher is pretty good at working with us. I've explained the way he is & the things that I KNOW frustrate him. She really does seem to try and help. Hopefully, this doctor can get things figured out.

Medicating your child is a touchy subject and I am not trying to make you feel bad. I had to give my oldest medication and I wish that they had diagnosed him earlier and maybe he would still be with us today. He had Bi Polar disorder which is a mental illness. Doctors recently have been handing out Risperdol like candy to kids with Autism which is not a mental illness and it is an anti psychotic as was mentioned. I know that your son's diagnosis is Bi Polar right now but the way you describe him he does sound Aspie to me however I am not a doctor and you can not go by what anyone on a web site tells you.
I can tell you that the behaviors that you mentioned, the meltdowns, ect. are very normal of an autistic child when they have either sensory overload or anxiety. My daughter who has classic Autism gets very upset when she has to learn something new. She does not like to be "wrong" it is very upsetting to her and she will have a meltdown the first few times but once she learns then she is happy and proud of herself. She just needs to go through this cycle.
It makes me angry that doctors give a serious medication like Risperdol to a little boy and then lie to the parents about what it really is. They put my 19 year old daughter (who has Aspergers) on it for awhile because she cut her wrist and was having severe anxiety attacks. She has been having issues for some time that included hallucinations and paranoid thoughts. She would also get into these stupors where you could not carry on a conversation with her. We thought she was developing Bi Polar disorder or Schizophrenia. She also had other odd symptoms such as passing out when she stood up and having seizure like movements if she passed out. She developed severe migraine headaches and such pain in her stomach that she could not walk. She can hardly eat and the Risperdol did help with that, it is a side effect. Also if she stands too long her legs and feet turn purple.
The doc found that she had high blood pressure when standing and normal when she sat and it was low when she laid down. She was diagnosed with Orthostatic hypertension, severe anxiety, depression, thoughts of suicide, hallucinations, possible ulcers (which have been ruled out). They send her to a cardiologist who gave her an EKG and told me she was fine, when I asked why her legs and feet turned purple he said it was because her jeans were too tight.
One day I came across a chronic disease called POTS (Postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome) and if you look this up you will see that it describes all my daughters symptoms aside from her Asperger's issues, that just complicated diagnosis. The reason her legs turn purple when she stands and her stomach hurts so bad is because all the blood drains into her legs, feet and digestive tract. Its very dangerous as she could rupture a vein or artery in her digestive tract so she can not stand up very much. This is also why she has what is known as "brain fog" and why she has odd thoughts as the lack of blood in her brain is affecting her thought processes. If you have ever talked to someone with POTS they tend to have a hard time speaking and gathering their thoughts.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out that our kids are really tricky sometimes and what you think may be related to autism could be a medical condition.

Rissa0204 as I mentioned my oldest son was Bi Polar and he was not properly diagnosed until age 12 and by age 13 he was actively using drugs and became a heavy drug addict. He was clean from heroin for two years and he used and overdosed. He died on August 14th.
The things my son did sound nothing like what you describe. My son had severe mania. He literally never was still, even in his sleep and its why he was initially diagnosed ADHD. However ADHD kids dont hallucinate or (funny it was mentioned) think they can fly and jump off of the roof or out of trees. I cant tell you how many times I was in the ER with that boy. He did not sleep and I had to nail his window shut and lock his door from the outside. I worried because he had a tendency to start fires so I was always looking for matches and knives....he was obsessed with knives...sticking them in the wall, throwing them, threatening other people with them. He never was "violent" but he did like to have power over other people and frighten his sisters.
When he was not having an episode he was like a normal child. He rarely had any depression episodes but when he did he would sleep for upwards or 15 to 20 hours and when he was 8 he tried to strangle himself with his sheets because he didnt want to go to school. He also once left school at age 8 and walked down a highway to try to come home. Fortunately they caught him because he would have had to cross four lanes of traffic to get to our house. His teacher at the time did not like him and refused to help him even though we gave her some good ideas. We told her to put him at the front of the class, she put him in the back.....I finally took him out of school.
He would also fly into rages if I someone would tell him the dreaded word "NO".....I sometimes would have to hold or sit on him for hours until he could calm down. He stopped crying at age 5 and seemed to lack the ability to laugh but I would get him to smile and laugh but it was not like it was when he was younger.
He was extremely impulsive and would steal things all the time without thinking of consequenses. He would tell his sisters that he was going to kill them but later would feel badly and tell them he loved them, this was how I knew he did have a conscious in there somewhere.
He was very difficult and exhausting. Your little one sounds much more like my 9 year old and my now 19 year old Aspie and even my 6 year old autie.

He might have been angry because he saw his sister use it without asking you beforehand.

Just to make you feel better or worse if you like. I had a meltdown over the wrong order of pizza. I was kind of mad hungry. And I ordered this thing like a bajillion times. I freaked. lol.

Sometimes you'll find everyone has a meltdown over the most ridiculous things in the world.

sometimes its not even about rules, its just about whether something feels "right". for your son, sounds like you dont use potholders for the microwave. his sister did something that was so totally wrong to his mind, he couldnt handle it.

i dont like macaroni noodles with marinara sauce. its just not right. doesnt even taste right. last night thats what my SO made for dinner, but at least he knew enough to smother them with tons of cheese macaroni with cheese, right. macaroni with marinara, wrong. macaroni with tons of cheese and a little marinara, tastes really good =) but its still not right!

Did you tell him that metal might explode or cause a fire? Did you use the phrase "microwave-safe" in reference to the things that CAN be used in the microwave?

Aspies don't generalize rules well on a good day. This is frustrating for everyone, including the Aspie. It sounds pretty cut-and-dried to me: 1. His sister possibly endangered the entire household 2. When you told him about it, you acted like it was no big deal. 3. When he put something (metal) in the microwave, somebody implied non "microwave-safe" things endanger the household.

He's missing several pieces of information: 1. It doesn't matter what goes in the microwave when the door is open (so you can stir with a metal spoon.) 2. Potholders are microwave-safe. 3. Sometimes other people have more information than you do, so it may appear that they're breaking the rules when they are not.

Can you see where this is incredibly frustrating for him? If you boil it down, from his perspective, when HE puts something different in the microwave, the house might burn down, but when his SISTER does it, it's no big deal: not only no punishment, but no risk of fire.

If you are missing all the inferred information, it makes it seem like YOU are the reason things catch fire in the microwave and only YOU will be punished for it.

Sounds like like some incidents that I've had with my kids--7 year old with high functioning classic autism and 4 year old with OCD and AS.

It seems to be worse when they are stressed, sick, sleepy, or hungry.

My older one will sometimes punch the little one for not doing something "right" and try to make him do whatever it is "right." The younger one will just cry and have a fit is something is done wrong.

They are both on 25 mg/day of Prozac, so that generally do not progress into full meltdown mode much anymore. They also take Clonidine at night for sleep and anxiety, and I had to give my older son some this morning because he was flipping out over everything his brother did wrong. I couldn't leave the room to go to the bathroom, get dressed, or anything without my older son flipping out over my younger son "cheating" at some game they were both playing incorrectly, not using his toys correctly, etc.

My older son has a cold, and I did give him cold medicine this morning, which sometimes affects him poorly.

I can see why he'd think a rule had been broken. 1) He thought potholders were for taking hot things out of the oven, not the microwave. 2) He didn't think you needed anything to take things out of the microwave (often cups etc. aren't too hot). Both 1) and 2) mean something was being used for a purpose other than the "right" one. And 3) Pots don't go in microwaves but potholders do. That's nuts. Also, children go through phases of policing other family members, as part of their learning of social and behavioral rules.

I find my dd is much calmer if I acknowledge that her thinking was logical. I often say, "Hmmm... This doesn't seem to make much sense, does it?" And then explain. Sometimes I apologize for not giving her all the information. "I'm sorry, I guess I've never said that you can use potholders to move hot things in the microwave, on the counter, or to hold them when you're serving." You could also ask your son if he can think of anything else they would be useful for.

I know it's hard to understand why people get upset about particular things. I'm sure my family doesn't understand why certain kitchen towels are supposed to be used to wipe hands and others to dry dishes.

J.

Apparently he thought she was doing something bad that she wasn't supposed to do. I would simply explain to him that the pot holder isn't just for taking things out of the oven, and that it's actually for handling hot objects in general so people don't burn themselves.