Son with possible Aspergers

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MMJ I like the spin you put on it!
Yes......its not quantity, but quality!! !!
My son get very upset when he needs to stop something or move gears! ALWAYS wants to be in control because of the anxiety! Never wants to be alone and gets board easily and this can trigger meltdowns!
I think be carefull for selfdiagnosis, rather let a neurologist evaluate him.....its about functioning....things isnt a problem until its so obvious and debillitating that it decreases his every day quality of life and functioning.....

Someone told me the average age for dx of Asperger's is 9. That doesn't mean there aren't early signs of being different, it just means that problems aren't bad enough to require help until about 8 or 9. It is also very confusing. A friend of mine has two aspie sons and they are so very different!

Both of my kids had diagnosable problems that I detected early, but didn't get official dxs until there was a reason for it. My daughter showed signs of ADD when she was 2 1/2. We could tell my son was "different" as a baby but wasn't dxd until 9. Then it took while to accept the aspie label b/c he was so inconsistent. How could he be in such control in some situations and not in others? I didn't think something was organically wrong with him. I was so confused at the time.

If I was on the fence, in denial, or just didnt know better...my 6 yo son would still be undiagnosed. In preschool, I had 2 seperate psychologist observe him, both stated he was the most well adjusted kid in the class. I went to the parent group weekly run by a social worker, she saw my son. He used to hang on me and play with my hands becasue I was talking to other parents, he could NOT be separated from me. With all the issues I brought her, she came up with anxiety. YES he had and has anxiety, but that is only part of the big picture.

I just knew in my gut something was off with him. I went from Dr to therapist to neurologist...I got all sorts of things, like anxiety, like I need to be a tougher parent, like he is very smart and well adjusted...the thing is, in small structured, low stimulation settings, without the real world stressors and anxieties, my son is the perfect kid. He is too smart for his own good. He knows all the rules and the whys behind them,he can give brilliant, well thought out solutions to problems. SO when he is tested, when he is in a therapist office, when he was in preschool (small very structured class) he is able to do great. Take him out in the real world, and you will see the real Jayden. He CANNOT generalize his super intelligent brain into the regular world. And he gets rigid, and he gets defiant, and he gets argumentative, has tantrums, and he wants to do waht HE wants to do....But none of the psychologists saw that stuff, so they didnt agree with me that something was going on.

I didnt give up, I kept going till someone would listen. finally went with my son to a new therapist. She HEARD all that I was telling her. She was PAST the pleasent boy sitting across from her. She asked him not "what woudl you do if" but what DID you do when...and he would say, "I bit my freind casue he touched my piano" he would say, "I was screaming and crying casue I had to listen to my baby sisters music in the car when it was her turn"...etc, etc..she then presented the laundry list of issues to a psychiatrist, who suggested Aspergers. I was all NO NO NO, he isnt monotone, he can have converstaions, he is caring, he makes eye contact...all stereotypical things that I had no idea about.
I then went to the psychiatrist with my son, after all his testing and several visits, he did get Aspergers diagnosis.

When my son was in pre school, that diagnosis would have never happened. Some of his behaviors were not that far off for a 2,3,4 yo...but as he was getting older and you would expect a kid to stop tantruming, to get more agreeable, to follow the rules more, to lose some of the separation anxiety, etc...it was clear that wasnt happening.

The moral to my son's story is, if your GUT tells you something is off, keep going until you get answers. Just casue someone has a title or initials after their name dosent mean they know it all, and they CAN be wrong.

What I learned is that all those people dont LIVE with my child. To live with him, to see him in every setting, isto know him.

good luck!

Thank you for everyone's responses. In response to the question about what Jay does when he's redirected, he's fine. If he is playing with switches, buttons, remotes, etc. I can suggest we do something else, maybe make cookies, watch a movie, go outside, go on a ride on the four wheeler, etc and he eagerly accepts. He's never had a problem transitioning in Preschool. His class is about 20 kids strong, so it's not small group by any means.

I think something hard with AS is diagnosing early for all the aforementioned reasons unless it is just BLATANTLY obvious. Our district diagnostician said the same thing. she said they could do a full panel evaluation, but some of the AS symptoms can also be symtpoms of regular young children behavior. I don't think it's always as obvious as, "Well, can your kid do this...can your kid do that.....etc." I think it varies from child to child.

On another note, I am starting to think that maybe Jay is just NT with gifted traits because all the "pain and suffering" that some of you talk about, I don't see with my son. He knows what to do when he goes to parties, school, play groups, etc. I don't see him having control issues during play with his peers......little brother, yes, with his friends, no.

He gets on very well, recognizes where he is, isn't overly bothered by sounds, etc. He doesn't have any major sensory issues. So i guess only time will tell. I'm still of the opinion that until I really see that he's not able to cope or get along well, and since he's not in pain or suffering at this point, (and we, his parents aren't either), then I'm just going to leave it alone.

My SIL was the one that said something. Honestly, had she not said anything, I would've never even started researching it. My SIL only sees him once in a blue moon. He was 3 at the time. So there you go with that.

Thank you to those of you that were very welcoming and accomdating to me. I may just log off of WP for awhile, because obviously, me trying to be positive and upbeat about AS and ASD's was not taken well by some and maybe I'll be back in a few years if my child has a lot of pain and suffering.

Sorry to seem flip, but some of the statements made weren't in the slightest bit helpful.

(After checking what I wrote in this thread to see if it could be taken as unhelpful, because I'm enough on the spectrum that I often don't know.)

One of the things I value most here is that many of the posters are on the Autism spectrum. I've learned more about myself (presumably AS) and my son (diagnosed) here than I have from thousands of dollars worth of professionals. In part, that is because people with AS are direct to the point of being abrupt, and they speak out of their own experiences and from their own perspective, unadulterated by the collective unconscious or any perception of what other people think of them. It is a gift, but it's more than a little like Cassandra's gift: most people have a hard time appreciating it.

It can take a thick skin to read and post here, but if you need to figure out a kid on the spectrum, it's worth it to develop one. If you have any worries that your son might be on the spectrum, please be patient with our posters, remember they (we?) have a perspective that's important if indelicate, and keep coming back.

Thanks momsparky. I keep forgetting that about some of the parents also being AS and being blunt. I guess that's a sign that I'm a true NT. I always take others thoughts and feelings and possible perspectives on things before I say them, unless I mean to be flip, and then I'll just say what's on my mind regardless of the consequences. I'm a notorious people pleaser and door mat, but I will get mad to a point that I'll just say, "F*** it" and out it pours.

Again, I'm still thinking it's hard to say for sure about a kid at four unless it's truly obvious, like the tantrums, meltdowns, etc. Jay doesn't do that. I mean, he will whine and argue, and sure, he gets upset over things and may cry, but he's easily consoled. He'll also tell you when he gets his feelings hurt or when someone is being mean to him or how something makes him feel. He's never had trouble telling me those kinds of things or telling me how others are feeling based on just pure facial expressions. When I first was posed with the question of Jay being AS, we were driving home from school and it was just me and the boys and I was just driving, not really saying much and I just sighed, like a really big sigh, because I was pondering everything and was really sad. And Jay said from the backseat, "Mommy? Why are you so sad?" And I just started crying because he knew I was sad. He's always been that way with people. He reads them very well. He can tell when people get upset with him and everything. I thought people with AS didn't easily recognize those things, like facial expressions, moods, feelings, etc. Is that a hint of some kind that he is probably NT?

And as you mentioned I have to have a thick skin, you have to understand when an NT like me gets miffed, too. I guess it's part of our differences, no?

I can only speek for myself.....so far as I know I am NT....ok with some anxiety exct......but I did get my furr ruffled a bit when I read your post....not sure why......Me to came here with hundreds of questions to figure out my son and dx at first and I got a very understanding and welcoming acceptance.......For me it was a bit annoying that you kept on going on about how very intelligent you, hubby and kiddo is.....plenty of us also have that......ok we dont qualify for Mensa.....
In your last post you tell us about all the wonderfull things your son does, his abiilities and that he doesnt meet the creteria that we describe as ASD or AS.....Then if he doesnt have any of these traids....I dont understand why you suspected AS in the first place?
Just enjoy your kids....yes maybe you are right that something isnt all ok with your son.....and you will know when to take action....the day where you and hubby look at each other and say: It cant carry on like this, we need help.....then you will know!
But I can see that you are a loving and caring mommy and your children is blessed to have some one like you....looking out for them!

I think the reason I was talking about me possibly being Mensa, and the history of my husband and myself was to give our history as to possible reasons why our son is the way he is. I realize that many of you are also super bright and intelligent; the reason that genetics component plays a huge role in passing down ASD genes.

Sorry I offended.

Like I said, there are times where I can see where my son has some Aspie traits, like the specific interests but then doesn't exhibit the social issues that many Aspies face. It's like he has the good stuff without the bad stuff......does that make sense? I don't know if the bad stuff will present more as he gets older.......I think that's what i mean about the wait and see thing. Or maybe I'm just in denial and I want to believe that he isn't on the spectrum. I don't know. I'm super confused.

Okay, I went back and re-read all of my posts. I can completely understand where I can seem overbearing, annoying, snarky, etc. Maybe I'm just still in SUCH a defensive position. Here are the Aspie traits of my 4 year old:

Obsessive interests: (loves anything remotely mechanical - lights, fans, switches, machines, gears, robotics, etc.

Sensory Issues: Hates the Happy Birthday song, but now tolerates it.

Play Issues: plays well, but doesn't always like to share his toys, especially with baby brother, but does okay with his friends as far as the sharing goes. Can be bossy.

Social Issues: Can be shy with meeting strangers. Can be a little hesitant at first with a new group.

Other traits:
He did wring his hands or jump up and down when he was younger if he was scared about something he had to do that scared him, like jumping off the side of the pool when learning to swim. He had an eye tic that lasted for a few months, it happened after we'd gone on a five day vacation and left the boys with grandma and nana. It disappeared without intervention after a few months. He does ask a lot of the same questions about things he already knows. Like today we are having severe weather. Our house was hit by lightning in July and caught on fire. He asked me this morning if our house would catch on fire again. I told him it wouldn't, he was fine about it. Still scared of putting his head under water when swimming. Kind of hard headed about things, like if he's convinced he won't like something, it's pretty hard to convince him otherwise. He also doesn't like being by himself. He is getting better as he gets older, but still has the imagination that a monster or something scary will get him. He doesn't like to be in a room alone for too long. He usually comes looking for me, his dad or his brother.

Behavior: Pretty easy going. He definitely has his routines, but not overly rigid. Like, they change. Bedtime routine is pretty much the same, but if one night we say prayers, but the next we don't, he doesn't have a problem. He doesn't get too ruffled if things are out of order. He always does well with other caregivers, doesn't express anxiety when we go on a date and leave him with a sitter, even if it's a new person. He's never really had tantrums or meltdowns. At least not anything major. Even as a young toddler, he was easily consoled when he got upset. He understands discipline and consequences really well. We use something called Love and Logic where we diffuse arguing really easily and have consequences like taking away privelages, time out, etc. and he responds well to that. He also has chores that he completes regularly and earns his privelages that way. If i tell him that he can't go messing with other peoples' things at their houses, like checking out their bathrooms, or their rooms, he's really good about not doing it. He seems to be accepting social rules as he gets older.

So see, there's the thing. He has some quirky patterns, and if he does have AS, it seems to be very mild or very high functioning, and that's why I don't know if he is just gifted, like the parental history (again, not trying to be snarky or anything), or if there is something there. I guess we won't really know until he gets a bit older, gets some more maturity and is really put to the test when he goes to school where the demands get greater.

I am so very, heart felt when I apologize for other posts where I came across like I did. I think I'm just scared, you know? I want to believe with all my heart that he is just like me. As I mentioned in a previous post, my early childhood teachers thought I might have been HFA. It turned out I wasn't. So hopefully, this makes a little more sense as to what my little guy shows and what he doesn't.

I think I understand your dilemma. My DS11 is gifted as well. He comes from a family of individuals who are also smart and promote intelligent thinking (as do many other families on WP). When my DS was in kindergarten, the teacher recommended him for GT testing and stated something like "He is the first kid I have met who is has all the GT traits they talk about in school." He was a "quirky" kid. However, he was a little behind the other children socially. In first grade, they called it asynchronous development. His brain could imagine situations that he could not emotionally process. He would correct the other children on rules, become frustrated about things he could imagine, but could not produce, and would have long periods of crying and becoming upset over seemingly tiny slights. He could and did play well with the other children in kindergarten and first grade, mostly. He has good eye contact. His speech is full of emotional tones (not flat). He is silly and liked to entertain the other children by doing pratfalls. No one suspected AS. By third grade, he was complaining of having no friends. The social gap was widening, and asynchronous development may be a factor, but it did not explain it all. To make a long story short, he likely has a visual brain, poor verbal skills, very poor processing speed, great memory, gifted, asynchronous development AND Aspergers.

The answers don't come so easily, and sometimes as parents we have a gut feeling that something is going on and we want to give it a name and a solution. Oftentimes our lovely children just don't fit well into all the boxes we make. As for how to help your child now, I listed a couple of articles that explain asynchronous development, and a couple of books that helped me help my "quirky" kid.

Asynchronous Development, Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis of Gifted Chilren
http://www.sengifted.org/articles_couns ... ildren.pdf

Coping with Asynchronous Development
http://archive.austinisd.org/academics/ ... ous_De.pdf

Raising your spirited child book
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Your-Spir ... 0060923288

Quirky Kids
http://www.amazon.com/Quirky-Kids-Under ... 685&sr=1-2

I think we're back to it probably being too early to be sure, and if there aren't any pressing issues cropping up at school or elsewhere, you are probably fine sitting the concept on the back burner and seeing how he matures (although the books above sound interesting). That is what I would be doing in your shoes: waiting to see how things play out over the next few, key years, and just enjoying my unique and quirky child without labels or questions.

Just be aware of a couple of things:

1) If he encounters issues, if can go downhill fast, and there will be a large lag between realizing it is time to assess, and actually having that assessment in hand. You'll find that the school can NOT be very flexible until they have the word on a piece of paper, so you may find you have to take on a lot of things at home without assistance. Just be ready for that possibility; don't get so locked into a job or a lifestyle or some insane mortgage that your choices are more limited than they need to be. Wise advice to all parents, in my opinion, but especially if there could be ASD in a family.

2) We define ASD much more broadly today than 20 years ago, so just because you didn't meet that definition as a child, does not mean you wouldn't meet it if you were a child today. Since you are grown up and doing fine it is pretty meaningless for you, so that isn't what my point is about: it's the comparison, the deciding where your son is on the spectrum by comparing to yourself that I want you to realize is an imperfect process.

Meantime, best of luck to all of you. Enjoy life; they don't stay little for long!

Both of those posts were very helpful!! Thank you for the links as well!!

Snekane....I agree...you have to wait it out.....he is a bit young.
Reading your last post, I do get the impression that you try and tick the more "stereotypical" boxes of AS....remember.....wanting routine doesnt always mean he will have a blowup if you dont pray.....its more suttle than that.....you might find him always wanting the same food presented in the same order....for example only! Or always going to the same restaurant with plenty of questions if it changes......
Remember a big part of AS is usually....not always....the increased anxiety and sometimes OCD traids....that causes the rigidity in thaughts and behaviour.......Also......be on the look out for mood dysregulation stuff.......Around 7-9 yrs you can start seeing literal thinking and mind blindness and also pick up that your sone doesnt get more abstract concepts like poems.....jokes......sarcasm. He is to young now.....he wount get it anyway! Like the other day I told my mom she can see this and this is not true....while I spoke on the phone with her.....my son stopped and said to me: Duh.....she cant see you, its over the phone! Also ask him feedback what he understands!! !! Because my son is clever and very verball I never realized how little he understood!! !!
For me the most significant part is his general functioning and happiness.....if he starts complaining about kids being nasty to him.....he might be misinterpreting their behaviour and language....but remember its not a problem if he tells you this now and again.....its when it becomes a PATTERN! Look for PATTERNS in things you pick up, dont tick a box if it happens now and again......AND this pattern must cause significant distress for him and or the family.......

Time will tell! A lot of the behaviors you wrote sounds like how my son was. At 2,3and 4he didnt tantrum as much as he does at 6. He seemed to understand and follow rules better when he was younger. BUt I think that we just have different expectations for a 4yo then a 6yo. A year or so makes a HUGE difference! My son is also relentless with questioning, especially when he knows tha answer already! Drives me crazy!
My son could care less about order. He is the most disorganized person I met...lol. He dosent line things up, never has.
Do some reading, and wait. It sounds like your little guy is a great kid. Just be informed and ready for when or if he starts having issues that interfere with his or your lives.

Finding out the diagnosis of Aspergers didnt change my son one bit..it just changed how I view his behaviors, how I respond to him, etc...but he is still the same wonderful, gifted, sweet loving boy he always was.

good luck!

Thanks everyone again!! I'm just going to sit back and enjoy my boy. He is great!! Yeah, he does the heavy questioning as well, even when he knows the answers. It's like he just wants to tell me what he already knows, but it's actually gotten better as he has gotten older. I think I DO read a lot into things, and like I said before, had my SIL not ever mentioned it, I don't think I would've researched it. I know time will tell for sure whether I am just dealing with a GT kiddo or an kid with AS. Thanks for all the input!! I appreciate it!!

We actually had our son tested by counselors, not a psychologist, at age 2 1/2 (for spinning and headbanging and not talking to kids his age) and they said he was quirky, but not on the spectrum. He did have obvious social skills deficits (not able to carry on a two way conversation very well, not able to sit in circle, head banging, preoccupation with movies he seemed to be playing over in his head) but his pre-K teacher was amazed by his uniqueness and creativity and his good differences from the other children. When he went to Kindergarten, the downside to Aspergers became more obvious as more demands had been placed on him. (The preschool teacher could not force him to participate in activities where he refused, but the Kindergarten teacher demanded graded work from him.) Also, the preschool room was huge and he could easily find a place to escape (from social and sensory issues); the kindergarten room was small, loud, and kids scurried from different learning centers (there was lots of input, more than he could process) and he had to participate (no escape). First grade is going much better, mostly due to intervention (lots of speech, ABA therapy, training to read facial emotions was a huge help, etc) but also because the school has been wonderful in addressing things specifically for him (matching him to a great teacher, room with natural lighting, schedules on his desk) and somewhat due to normal first grade differences (kids are able to sit at their own desk and keep hands and feet to themself). His biggest problem with school now is handwriting and hating worksheets (and we had no idea until recently how big of a problem this was because we have to watch and listen carefully since he never tells us what is wrong, even when asked).

I think you are right on top of things. While I wish we had pressed for further testing at 2 1/2, I still think they might not have been able to diagnose him. I think it is wonderful that you are such a good parent, and keeping a watchful eye on your son. Just keep watching him and see how he reacts as more demands are placed on him. Even if he does not fit the Aspergers diagnosis, if there are things you feel need to be changed because they are interfering with his ability to make friends or learn, ABA therapists treat the issues (as every kid is different and does not display all the characteristic symptoms all the time) not the diagnosis. The important thing about pursuing a diagnosis is protection in school. Some insurance companies will not cover ABA therapy, even with a diagnosis.