We need help with discipline for our 18 son!

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This. He's 18. How much actual obeying does he need to do? Most kids also go through a rebellious time around that age or before, when they don't have a lot of respect for parents, or need to be given more freedom and independence. Is he out of school? Has he shown any interest in something he'd like to do for work so he can maybe earn a living and live on his own one day? What are his interests? Maybe something along those lines - I'd encourage him to learn as much as he can about any of his interests that has even the least hope of earning him a living, and give him some independence to pursue that.

Respect (the kind that parents tend to mean they should get from their kids) isn't worth all that much, IMO. As long as he isn't abusive, and seeing as how he's nice to others, he does know how to behave. This sounds to me just like the normal parent loathing that many teens go through.

Maybe he needs some respect, for anything that he's good at. Parents always being on your case can make you feel pretty much worthless.

Oh wow, I just read your second post, that says he has had a job since he was 16. That's great, and he's doing a lot better than I was at that age. I hope he gets praised for that. And whether he's in high school or not, he is 18 and IMO it's time for some freedom and independence. Maybe instead of someone being there to help him stay focused on cleaning his room (my parents didn't require that - we were allowed to keep our private rooms as messy as we wanted, provided we weren't attracting vermin into the house), you could break it down into smaller tasks like dusting it one day, vacuuming the next, changing bedding another day, organizing his books or whatever on another. One thing per day for a few days. I had to learn on my own how to break down big tasks into smaller ones, maybe he needs some hints, or to have the problem areas pointed out.

I also found at that age that I needed a LOT of time to myself to just think things through. It was a stressful age, getting ready to be an independent adult when I really still felt like a little kid in lots of ways. I had to deal with the transition to adulthood with a lot of internal shifts that required solitude, journal writing, thinking, and not being disturbed while I did that. Of course that was just me. From the outside it looked like laziness, but it was an incredibly active period for me internally, and I needed it. I could not explain to anyone how much I needed it.

Since he has a job, is there something he's required to pay for himself - such as that phone?

Like many parents here, mine are still young and I haven't been able to try yet what I am going to suggest. But there are some in my parent group that I go to who have used written contracts. You mentioned that your son uses written communication to communicate his feelings. So his written receptive skills may be able to handle a written contract. Realize, however, that he may take what you write down very literally, so you must be very clear in your expectations of him and his expectations of you. Discuss a draft of it with him before signing it, or provide a comment period (i.e. He may have verbal edits, and/or write you a letter in response to the draft with suggestions). Have a process in advance for either party to amend the contract. Then make an event out of signing it; feathered pens or something.

I hope this helps.

I'd just chime in on the room cleaning thing as this is something that comes up here fairly often. For some Aspies it helps if you are a lot more specific when giving instructions for such a task. It has been described here that when a person with ASD is told to clean a messy room, he or she simply doesn't know where to start so he is literally unable to begin. If you can't begin a task, you certainly can't finish it. You might try helping him break it down more, e.g., start with picking up all the books and putting them on a particular shelf, followed by putting all the clothes in a hamper, etc. I know "clean your room" sounds like a simple task but for some people it truly is not so simple. I like Kivalina's contract idea, I think some others here have used that as well.

Try not to take the apparent abruptness of some comments personally, with the rare exception, the posters here really are taking time to post with nothing but good intentions. This really is a great place to learn a lot from people on the spectrum and parents raising kids who are on the spectrum.

I didn't read the rest of the posts, so I apologize if it is not in line with the rest of the discussion. Possibly he's polite around everyone else because he doesn't have to spend much time with them and when he's with you, he's already worn out. That's my two cents worth.

It sounds like your background/culture is similar to that of my husband's family and even they would not have attempted to discipline an 18 year old man. Perhaps "discipline" was poor word choice on your part, because "discipline" and house rules are not the same. You can have the latter without the former. Landlords even have rules that renters need to follow; But they are rules and not discipline. If you want your son to take on a more adult way of looking at responsibilities, it would probably help (especially for an Aspie) if you used the language of adult responsibility as opposed to the infantalizing notion of "discipline."

That said, I am not yet where you are now, as my son is very young. Also, I do not doubt that your son might be emotionally and life skills-wise younger than his years as others have stated. Yes, that is a dilemma. That said, he is working, and has been for a couple of years. That is not a minor accomplishment for a spectrum person.

Does he pay some form of rent or (as my husband's mother would put it) "pitch in" with bills? (It may not be "market value" for room and board, but is it significant in relation to what he makes?) Does he help with family chores? Is this a pre-determined list, or do you just ask him to do things on the fly, as it were, and expect immediate compliance. Aspies do better with a specific written list of what is expected, with some flexibility in execution, so they can finish things they are in the middle of, even if they are "just" thoughts.

What do you mean by respect? If you are expecting obeisance as opposed to just compliance with basic family rules and courtesy, I think your expectations are not realistic or beneficial. It will make him resentful and he will naturally bristle, and resist. An 18 yr old living at home is still entitled to some self-respect. I am sure at 18, he is not happy that he is living at home, and probably wishes he made enough to move out. Aspies are often rational folk and if you give respect, you tend to get it back in return. This is true even for my seven year old. If your adult son feels like you are infantalizing him, this may be a reason for acting out at home as opposed to elsewhere.

I know that this is not natural for you to view things this way, but if you want him to act more like an adult you have to give him some basic respect. Also. he is 18, and his younger brother should understand that an adult is not treated the same as a child. If not, he should probably learn this. You would not give a 7 year old the same rights and responsibilities of an 18 year old, etc. right?

Your older son's ownership of personal items should be respected. If you provide more detail about what it is that is going on, and what you provide for him (aside from shelter) it would make it easier to give guidance about appropriate and hopefully somewhat natural consequences.

Again, I know this way of looking at family hierarchy is not natural for you. You feel entitled to certain things because he is under your roof, as you say. However, as a practical measure you might want to rethink the nature of this. If you tell him he is an adult now, and you will treat him more like one (both respect-wise and responsibility-wise) because you know he can live up to the challenge, this will give him more confidence, and something to live up to, as opposed to childlike rules to resent and bristle under.

(Edited to add -- I am an Aspie, so my tone may be harsher than intended. I have attempted to adjust it, but I had trouble saying what I felt needed to be said without being somewhat blunt. Also edited to add: You got some really good advice from others about the cleaning his room issue)

I think there might be a few issues here. First of all, I'm not sure punishment for a bad grade is always a good idea unless there is obvious evidence that he hasn't tried. Some people with Aspergers are very strong in some aspects educationally but really struggle in others, especially if there are other learning difficulties. I was in the top classes for all my subjects, bar one. The school accused me of laziness, which made no sense as if I was lazy I would be failing all my classes.

As for tidying up his room, firstly he is a teenager and teenage boys aren't renowned as the most tidy people. It may be an issue with executive function. Some people just don't know where to start, and they find organization difficult. When I first moved out of my parents home (at 16) my Mum used to come round once a week and help me if I found myself in a muddle. Perhaps you could offer to help, or sit down and make a plan together. I get very anxious if people touch certain possessions of mine, so perhaps you should check that out first.

I think it would be better if you wrote out a reasonable list of 'House Rules' with very clear and achievable expectations. Your son is an adult, even if he is a few years behind emotionally and so it might be good to teach him the skills he will need to live with other adults later on. He may need an explanation of exactly why you are asking something - "because I say so" doesn't really work for Aspies.

It might be worth sending him an email with your concerns rather than having a conversation - that gives him some time to think about what you've written and respond and it might remove some of the communications difficulties.

I also think that ASDMommy above gave very good advice.

The OP's son is 18, but going into his senior year in high school (graduating Spring 2013). To me this means "teenage kid" rules apply -- "adult" responsibilties and freedoms don't start until next summer, so we shouldn't be talking about paying rent yet.

Was the F due to not turning in homework? Does he have a 504 plan in place to give him help with tracking what assignments are due, and allowances to turn things in late? Is he expected to be solely responsible for doing homework, or do you oversee it on a daily basis? With ADHD, he is likely lacking the organizational skills expected of a typical high school student, and needs to be taught and assisted in order to pass. Punishments such as taking away a cell phone won't help him "shape up" if he is lacking these skills. (Alternately, is there any chance of an undiscovered learning disability?)



I suspect he needs to be taught how to clean his room. For him, it's NOT a simple task. The book Smart But Scattered has a very good step by step description of how to go about teaching this skill.



When you asked, "Why didn't you do the dishes like I asked you to?" you didn't really want a reason, you wanted him to stop what he is doing and go do the dishes. You may need to change your communication style with him to be more direct like "You forgot to do the dishes. Please do them now". Similarly, he is likely lacking the understanding of social hierarchies, and that instead of saying "I'm tired of your attitude" (which you've no doubt had many occasions to say to him) he should have said something like, "I got distracted," and kept his thought of "I hate being nagged" to himself.

A social skills class for teenagers on the spectrum might be very helpful. Also this book:
Quirky, Yes---Hopeless, No: Practical Tips to Help Your Child with Asperger's Syndrome Be More Socially Accepted [Paperback] by Cynthia La Brie Noral

For the discipline part, you need to pick your battles and decide on 2 or 3 things to work on and let the rest go. Another book I'd recommend is Parenting Children with ADHD by Vincent Monastra. It has a very good chapter on two discipline systems (Behavior Charting and Work for Play) that you can use in conjunction with teaching the missing skills.

Have you considered looking for a behaviorist who specializes in ASD and/or ADHD to help your family?

I'm 26 now, and recognize most of this. I'll try to explain why I rebelled. I was probably a bit worse considering your posts.

You have power, but no authority. For power to become authority, it must be recognized as beneficial. For those on the spectrum, that means it must first of all seem logical; be consistent about the consequences of actions. You may want to discuss what seems like appropriate rules or agreements with your son at a later stage, to offer him insight, but this requires him to see the value of your guidance first.

So logic. He has to understand what you do, so he can predict it. Predictable things are nice. You can avoid them! There also has to be a direct relation, or he will have a very hard time to make the link. I for example, don't see the relation between taking away a phone and a bad grade. Did he spend hours talking to friends on the phone? I doubt it. How is taking away the phone helping him get a better grade? A much better "punishment" would be to let him read a book or article related to the subject. Sure, this probably takes you more time to find then for him to read, but you get more value from the time spent

Now, for a slightly less subtle approach... When I read "as long as he lives under our roof he will have rules and there will be discipline" and "When it comes to him not minding or disobeying" and "We do not tolerate disrespect our household" I feel the urgent need to either hit you in the face or disrespect your religious beliefs until your burst into tears. These statements are full of emotions and offer neither benefit or recognition of your son's situation. If I feel this, it explains why he might say he finds your attitude offensive.

He doesn't understand why you want these things. If you express them in a (for him) emotionally stressful way (that is also anger I'm reading in your post, isn't it?) he will just push back. Until he learns to recognize his own feelings and you start explaining yours (so he can learn to see those) you can make things as logical as you want. He will feel fear and run or isolate himself from it.

Lose distractions (sensory overload from light/sound/touch) and verbally express emotions. He will be able to calm down better. Make him feel safe and explain. Don't use guilt or dogma's, but logic and love.

Exactly. I really don't mean to sound harsh either, but as soon as I read the words "Southern Baptist" in your original post, I wanted to puke. Being a Southerner myself, I understand how religion might be very important to you. But the following isn't an opinion, it's a fact: religion does NOT "mix" very well with most people on the spectrum. I'm only asking you to keep an open mind. As an adult on the spectrum, and having known many others on the spectrum for years, I have come to the conclusion that parents (of any child, autistic or not) should NOT teach their kids religion UNLESS they are informed about other religions, tolerance, etc. This is especially important for autistics though. A lot of us try to be "independent" thinkers about religion, politics, etc but many of us aren't fortunate enough to have good reasoning skills. The point is that many autistics can't think critically about religion, and teaching them religion could lead to some embarrassing situations. For example, your son might start an argument with someone about religion (which most people know is a big no-no) and end up losing a friend or a job. Also, I don't mean to stereotype, but having grown up with Southern religion myself, I think most of Southern culture is anti-intellectual. But most autistics ARE intellectual. Basically the idea of "an autistic Southern Baptist" is an oxymoron. Most autistics who think about religion are either atheists, Buddhists, or Unitarians. Unitarianism is appealing to a lot of autistics because it's a religion with no dogma.

So, WHY did he get an F on his report card? I would hold off on punishment for bad grades until you figure out the reason WHY. If it is related to his disability, why would you want to punish him for that? He may need some additional support from school or home in that area to get through the class. I mean.. if you needed glasses because you couldn't see the chalkboard at school do you think taking away something at home is going to help you see the chalkboard at school?

Cleaning his room: A LOT of teens do not like to clean their rooms especially BOYS!! ! I mean, think about all the references to bacholer pads being messy..... This is a choose your battles thing. For me I have bigger fish to fry, I just don't go into his room. As he is getting older, I find that he keeps it cleaner. Plus if I explain to him that his room needs vacuumed once a week to keep dust mites down, which can cause allergies, etc. he is more likely to at least move things around and make it look nice. Just telling him to clean it because I said so.. just doesn't work well.

Here is another thing.. with my son if I am not specific.. i.e. Do the dishes when you finish listening to 2 songs on youtube. he will just ignore me. I find the more specific I am, the better response I get from him.

I see this in my son as well: "I had to deal with the transition to adulthood with a lot of internal shifts that required solitude, journal writing, thinking, and not being disturbed while I did that. Of course that was just me. From the outside it looked like laziness, but it was an incredibly active period for me internally, and I needed it. I could not explain to anyone how much I needed it."

No that is not how it works, legally 18 is an adult with limits I mean obviously you have to be 21 to buy alcohol. Treating a legal adult as a 'teenage kid' is certainly not a very good approach even if this 'kid' is still in high school. They still need to learn how to you know be in charge of their life instead of just how to obey others.

Do you use the terms not minding or disobeying with him? for instance if you ask him to do something and he doesn't would you say 'you're disobeying me.' or 'why aren't you minding me.' I would say if so maybe using language more appropriate for an adult would be better. I mean he shouldn't help out around the house to obey you.......he should help out because he lives there two and should share some responsibility so maybe try and change up the wording. I mean compromise is kind of needed you cant expect him to just do as you say because, anymore than he could expect you to just let him do whatever he wants in the house even if it involves trashing it for instance.

I don't agree with taking his phone for getting an F, I mean what if he couldn't get something higher? I just never saw the logic in punishing someone for failing a test or whatever I mean one already typically feels bad enough they failed it without coming home to parents to rub it in their face as if they knowingly committed some offense by not getting a high grade. But that's just me......if you are the one paying for the phone you have the right to take it away if you want to I just think punishments should fit the crime. I mean why did he get the f? and does it really justify taking his phone away. And what is it he never once followed through with that you asked of him?

However you said he has a job, so if it's his phone he is paying for himself then there are certainly some issues with taking it away. And legally well I hate to say it but he could report it as stolen, not that he would but if one is over 18 and someone takes their property then that is technically stealing. If you're paying for it and you feel taking it away for an F is the right thing to do then it us up to you.

To the parent who started this thread: as soon as I finished high school, it seemed like my parents started treating me like I was getting younger instead of older. Perhaps because of my disability they were frustrated and confused. But their handling of my future led to me having severe depression which continues to this day. I never really had behavior problems or trouble keeping a job, so I never really understood why they treated me like an "out of control" immature teenager... right as I started to grow up.

I honestly hope he does that, and not just to the phone carrier, but to the police as well. The notion of disciplining an 18-year-old dude is just plain laughable. If a good talking-to from a police officer and/or legal action is what it'll take to drive the point home to those parents, I'm all for it.

To the OP: what do you envision for your son after high school is over? Do you think he will continue to live at home? Will he be going to college, community college, or trade school, getting more hours at his current job, or looking for a new job? What help does he need to get from where he is now to being as independent as possible?