what happens when I go against better judgement

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my son gets rewards like hugs, kisses, extra snuggles, treats that he likes (donuts, cupcakes, etc...), other specials many others... but he doesnt beg for those or wake up asking and begging for a donut or extra kisses.

I was specifically talking about bending a rule once in a while when he asks to watch the iPad or play video games in the am. THAT is his gold!! ! THAT is what he begs and pleasd for...lol and whenever I give in, it blows up in my face. I just have to remember that no matter how much I want to give it on occasion to make him happy in that moment, I just cannot. He woke up begging for it today, the usual!! !

When you can handle the debate (Your frame of mind is important, too) I would tell him why so he can start to see the relationship between his actions and the consequences. I would be careful, though, to include something like, "I know you think you can control yourself, but you love it so much, it is too hard for you right now, because you need more self-control." That will help him connect cause and effect and maybe forestall some of the debate.

That's the thing though. By giving in every once in a while in a blue moon, it interrupts the consistency and structure that AS kids do well to be bound by. So by giving in, the electronic device no longer becomes a reward, but an expected. But it should be a kept a reward to have its status to him remain to be a reward. Even if you slip up one too many times and hand it to him in the morning, it'll be stuck in his mind to be an expected. I hope this makes sense? To regain its status as a "reward" it needs to be regarded as a reward, to where you just plainly don't budge on it and hold your ground on it.

He's saying "all the right things" because he wants it, he's hooked. If a kid who knows how to manipulate a parent says 'all the right things' to get a chocolate ice cream cone every time they'll do it regardless as to the secondary later consequences they are unable to think of at the time (obesity, etc).

It really depends on how you explain "why". If you raise your voice, consider "why" to turn into a bomb range as those of us with asperger's cannot process anything worth a jack when sensory issues get involved. If you explain it in a way that he might potentially discern to be demeaning, then that's another trigger too. If you get flustered, he will too. Which I know sounds odd in the context of us not being good at detecting nonverbal cues, but I can detect pretty good when someone is upset with me and absorb their upset energy onto my behavior. Because when I'm stuck to something like that, I'm absorbed in the activity (key word being absorbed). So the first thing I do instinctively when I look up and notice the presence of someone standing there telling me "time's up, do this, now, blah blah blah" is to absorb the essence of it emotionally without knowing/detecting/infering or knowing how to detect/infer why at first. And too, if it's a highly involving game, someone startling me like that might make me do something weird in the game because I'm not really good at multitasking in my processing of information either (game + what's being said to me-- usually I have to tell someone "hold on!" and pause the game to hear what they're telling me). And when weird things happen in the game, that's when panic sets in of "I am either losing" or "I need to make plans of when I'm going to save to put up" (especially if it's an rpg type of game where save points aren't always plentiful/accessible in all areas or there's a lot of story involvement going on at the time that if interrupted I would have a hard time processing what it meant if I picked back up in the middle of it). And too, when that happens, for some reason my mother would infer that I was directly mad at her for telling me so, and that's not so much true as much as I would sound more mad to her but I was more overwhelmed by being communicated to while I was playing the game or being directly absorbed into an activity. And that's another thing. The act of planning in the AS brain is more difficult than it is for an NT brain, because you have to remember all of the points you want to remember the sequence of what you need to get done before saving, choosing a place to save, etc, all while you're still going in the game and being told it's time to put up at the same time. I think our difficulty to plan, that's directly tied to our problems with executive function. And too, if panic sets in, and the parent picks up on it, they take on that energy and potentially start getting upset or anxious themselves. Then everything implodes between the two (the parent and the child).

I hope this makes sense?

This works too. My mom used to reward me randomly sometimes by taking me to art stores, or going to a nearby park for a picnic (and take a frisbee), or something along those lines. To this day, I still enjoy these things (even though I still stink at frisbee but that's beside the point because I enjoy it anyway). And if anything, they'd give him good experiences to have outside of everything being hinged on playing games or the ipad. It's not a substitute, but it'll add to the experience.

you're welcome.

Ding. Here is your statement. This particular one is structured in an non-offensive, understanding, logical way that the ASD brain can digest without much difficulty.

Let's break it down, it's an observation based upon his perception, an observation in form of an acknowledgement, another observation, followed by a direction/instruction. Which makes it easier to understand. No brain indigestion included.

I had this problem in childhood, and in fact still struggle with it today.

Through my teens, early 20's, mid 20's even, I would sometimes get completely obsessed with a game. Not simply "it's so fun I don't want to stop." Rather, it had to do with excessive determination to get a certain score that I either just miss or because I do something really stupid costing me a lot of points.

Say I lose my last life at 499,350 points, my highest in two hours and 34 plays, and I spend the next SIX hours trying to get that 500,000. I may get it after those six hours, and think "phew! This *#&$^@ nightmare is OVER!! !" Or at hour 8 I may no longer even be getting to 300,000 ever and finally (very grudgingly) give up, convinced that I'm going to be depressed for life over having missed the 500,000 8 hours prior.

It's gotten better recently, because I'm realizing more that at least if I let something like this go much sooner, I'll be over it by the time I'd otherwise be playing it until should I not achieve that score. Not to mention I'm probably better when I'm not mad over it!! It's still irritating, though, and turning it off or switching to a different game still sometimes feels to me like taking on more pain in the short term.

Could AS kids playing video games be like this?

It would be 1,000 times worse with a game like Mario Kart Wii when played online, because you have a "VS Rating" that goes up when you place high and down when you place low. Especially when you get good (and your rating is higher than all the others' that you're racing against), one bad race can wipe out as many as 20 wins worth of gains! I've lost hours chasing losses in that game... if pulled away from that all of a sudden by a parent thinking I'm getting too frustrated, the frustration could get 1,000,000 times worse before it gets better!! !

Not to mention that if the game is suddenly shut off, it's treated like I got last place so on top of not being able to play the game any more, I just sustained a loss of points that took an hour of winning every single race to gain!! !! !! ! Be aware that some games may be like this...

I do explain to him when we are both calm, but he certainly doesnt get it, as he will always reply that he promises next time to shut it. He was actually watching you tube on iPad, a mario game being played, so he wasnt playing the game, just watching it. I went to pause it casue he wasnt responding to me, and when he swatted my hand instrad of hitting the pause I hit the end button to which he freaked out.

I guess I will continue to talk to him when he is calm, and thank him for understanding and for saying he will shut it and eventually when he is older or more incontrol that we will get to that place!

thanks for all the input everyone, it has been helpful

You know, something similar to that happened to me at this Christmas gift exchange at my group therapy place when I was 6 or 7, only instead of a Little Mermaid toy, it was a A Bug's Life one....only the therapist thought I was just being "bad" and then accused me of having stolen it when I saw her for an individual session...and I DIDN'T steal it...I never saw it again after the gift exchange.

God, she was mean...she seized every opportunity to make me out to be some kind of demon spawn, and to make me FEEL like one, too. She did that with pretty much all of us, actually. I'm so glad I stopped seeing her after I turned 8.

We fight this too, with my son's playing games on our phones, or his Nintendo DS. To some extent his Wii, but mostly the phones.

Thankfully, he isn't so much into the DS, he might play a few times a week for about 10-15 minutes each, but getting him to close the lid sometimes is brutal. He does love the phone, and loves Granny Smith, Labyrinth, Cogs (he LOVES this game- awesome thinker game!! !), Ninja Chicken, Fruit Ninja, Ninja Fishing, Paper Toss...

We actually talked about this in one of our Dad-kid sessions when out in his fort, and we've actually come up with something that has seemed to work about 75% of the time.
We were talking about things that we did that annoyed him, and things that he did that annoyed us. We learned a lot- both of us. One thing was with reference to the games, and he said that when he plays the games, he doesn't really hear anything else. Sometimes he might answer, but he isn't really paying attention, which I do believe. I could tell by his inflection and the depth of conversation that he was being totally truthful with the chat. I mentioned that we had issue with the "one more second" or "just 10 more minutes" stuff, and how it creates stress for us and thus stress for him. I said "you know, when you close the lid, it freezes the game- you start right back up where you were." Which was my tack for a long time on arguing why can't he just close the lid and stop- it saves your spot. That's when I learned that- as was said in the stuffed animal thread that kids have reasons too- he had a reason to not do that. He said "yeah, but when you do that and open the lid again, sometimes it is right where you have to do something, and I'm not ready for it and my guy dies..."

Never thought of that- I don't play them, I just interpreted them.

So, we did this- since we always have that issue at restaurants with ordering food (he likes to play games on my phone and stuff sometimes for his alloted time) and places like that, we made a deal that when we get to the restaurant, as soon as we hit the parking lot, I'll get his attention and say "decisions soon" meaning that he will need to pick what he is eating, etc... and he will stop playing at the next reasonable place in the game, which is usually about 30 seconds to a minute later. Then we see the phone come sliding back to us in the front seat with a "here ya go" or we hear the lid of the DS close, and we skip into the restaurant to eat. (Well, he skips in...) He doesn't get the panic from "close the lid now, please" coming at him 10 times, we don't get stressed, and darned if at least 75% of the time he will close the lid and make his decisions in a good mood. Sometimes he asks if he can keep playing, sometimes he doesn't even continue. But I think it helps him feel as he has a say in his actions which has been huge for him. He hasn't abused the privilege yet, so it sometimes gets him a few extra minutes, but mostly it keeps him in a happy place which all of us love.

We learn a lot in our chats...

It may not even be his game. At 7 my son still relied very heavily on schedules. If one part was altered it threw him. Even if it was altered for a good reason. Withholding that particular treat is actually you giving him a better one. You are preventing the inevitable meltdown. I am actually getting some advice on another thread about my 13 year old and it went against everything I consider rational as a parent. Since the advice came from someone who has lived with AS I really want to take the advice. After a little more conversation with the responder on the subject I realized something. We are trying to raise our kids the same way we would a NT child and at the very same time we are trying to deal with their unique traits. For a NT child you have given a treat to the AS child you just broke the rules and messed up the schedule. So although he wants the game you actually punished him by letting him have it. And I am over here laughing at myself because it is so much easier for me to apply Aspie rule to your kid than to my own. I am so programed in my way of thinking that I expect my poor kid to bend to it when he can't rather than to think outside the box... which would have my AS boyfriend on a rant because you can't think outside the box because you don't think in a box.... where is the box?? (hope you got a chuckle out of that) Thankfully we have access to this site to work it all out

I haven't read the other responses, but I had almost the exact same issue with my daughter the other day. I let her get on the computer before school. Big. Mistake.

It ended up in a major meltdown. I initially said she lost her computer privileges for the day. I did change my mind on that one, though, because the issue was my fault not hers.

But once she calmed down, we did talk about it and we decided no more computer in the morning. Once she is on the computer, it is just too hard for her to stop. I told her that I know that she means it when she says she will turn it off, but that she just can't. Yet. We will try it again when she is 8 (she is 7 now) and maybe by then she will be able to do it.

If he can't handle explanations without melting down, then leave it. Sometimes you have to go with what is expedient at the time.

That said, if he can manage it, I would try to occasionally explain it it to him when he is calm. I think they respect our judgement more when we give them reasons.

I can tell you right now, without a doubt, we do... I hated when my parents just said "because I said so" or something similar. If your rule makes no sense to me, if I can't see that it causes any adverse effects, then there's no reason to follow it. My parents tried to make me stick to a bedtime, even when I was an adult. Their original reason, when I started asking, back in middle or high school, was that I need to be able to get up in time to catch the school bus. Then later it became about the electricity I was using due to the lights being on if I was up late. THEN when I stopped turning on the lights, they ran out of reasons and just told me because they said so... it was ridiculous. They tried to force me into my room at 1am every night, but then I was supposed to have everything turned off. I guess they expected me to just lie there and stare at the ceiling. I wasn't allowed to be anywhere else at 1am either; I had to be AT HOME, IN BED... f*****g nazi ass parents... I wouldn't have hated them so much, and I would have actually respected their rules, if they would have just given me a reason for them(one that made sense and didn't change constantly just to have a reason to BS me with)... But they never did, and it drove me insane. Not only was their reason constantly changing and full of s**t, but also they tried to continue this bedtime BS until I finally moved out about 2 years ago... I was 24.

First of all, I do not know if my children are on the spectrum, but I am. I think they are pretty normal, but whom am I to judge

We have had a lot of issues with brushing teeth and going to bed. Sometimes I just had to make a clean cut and tell them to do it (I prefer to explain). If they complain to much I have just told them that it is my job as the evil mom, that it is something that comes with being a mom (they are very good at irony). A few weeks ago I had a talk with them about the good mom and the evil mom.

We agreed that the good mom would let them skip brushing thir teeth, let them stay up as long as they want, have all the candy they can eat etc. Then we could also agree that this was probably not a good thing, so the my 8 year DS actually agreed that it was better to have an evil mom than a good mom (I really liked that part).

I really hate having to threaten them with anything, I find it to be demeaning to all of us. Sometimes I do threaten them with quite outrageous things, one of the good ones is that I tell them that I will go over to their school and kiss them goodbye in front of the whole class - it sometimes work

The games thing. It must be completely annoying to be told to turn the game off, when in the middle of a game and not being able to save it. Some of their games I have played as well (The Lego games and Pokemon games) and I often know if they can save in the middle of the game or if they have to finish something first. My children will almost always tell me when they can save, but I have never ordered them to turn it off on the spot (and I know if they are lying).