Lying about completed school work and faking health problems

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cubedemon6073
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20 Jan 2013, 1:06 am

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
You know, I could definitely see my son trying to write a hero essay about HIMSELF if he were assigned one. I am running the concept in my head and from an AS perspective this is really hard. I am not AS enough to where I had troubles like that. I faked assignments like this when I needed to. My son though...I could give him the dictionary definition and there is no way he could apply this, correctly. Add into that essays and their open-endedness and the mental and motor skill issues of writing and this is just a hellish assignment especially if you have a homework avoider.

If he likes fantasy or superheroes or anything like that give him examples of "epic" type heroes, and see if he can apply it to real people and pick someone with an "epic" mythology surrounding them. If he does not believe that real people are epic in that way, that is not so bad, because really, they aren't. Real people have failings. Even epic heroes often do. I think, if that is the case for your son, I would attack this as telling him to write about someone (other than himself) that he admires, and have the intro say something about everyday people being "heroic" in their own way or something.


How are you able to fake assignments and not feel guilt about it? I don't understand.



ASDMommyASDKid
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20 Jan 2013, 9:22 am

It took me a while. Here is how I reasoned it: When you get an assignment like "write a two page essay on someone who you think is a hero" the point is not an information transfer. The point is to see how your formulate and write an essay. The topic is mean to focus your attention on a topic, see if you understand it, see how well you organize your thoughts and how well you communicate. As long as you don't pick somebody who most people consider a villain, no one is going to care who you pick. It is not the point of the assignment. So it is not dishonest to get yourself in a mind-space that allows you to do the assignment. You are pretending to be someone who has a hero.

Actors are not dishonest for playing characters unlike themselves. It is their job. I am not dishonest if I play a half-elven chaotic lawful bard on a RPPG. It is part of the game to be someone else.

Writing a school essay is the assignment. It is not a psych test, nor is it their business to give me one by asking me personal questions. It is my job to turn in a literate essay. Now, I would not make a ton of activities up for a college essay because that would be genuine lying. The answer matters in an instance like that. It doesn't for a "hero" essay for English class.



Aspie1
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20 Jan 2013, 12:56 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
It took me a while. Here is how I reasoned it: When you get an assignment like "write a two page essay on someone who you think is a hero" the point is not an information transfer. The point is to see how your formulate and write an essay. The topic is mean to focus your attention on a topic, see if you understand it, see how well you organize your thoughts and how well you communicate. As long as you don't pick somebody who most people consider a villain, no one is going to care who you pick. It is not the point of the assignment. So it is not dishonest to get yourself in a mind-space that allows you to do the assignment. You are pretending to be someone who has a hero.

This may be true now, but I have clear memories of those hero essays in my 6th grade English classes. It was the 1990's, and almost all boys wrote about one of these two heroes: Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson. (Good god, I feel old. :)) Not sure who girls wrote about, since that was before I got interested in them. Not yet knowing about the "NT protocol" and its essay requirements, I wrote about Thomas Edison "because he was smart". I was bullied mercilessly for weeks, although it was mostly by one or two people.

It's 2013, and the thing is, we no longer have "template heroes", that is, someone kids can always write about if they can't come up any idea, whose biography is easy to find, and who was a truly positive role model, albeit with usual human flaws. Neil Armstrong, the drug user? Kobe Bryant, the r@pist? Kim Kardashian, one the most vain women in fashion design? Lindsay Lohan, a multiple DUI convict? Miley Cyrus, the ditz? Justin Bieber, the kid who's... <vomits in disgust>? Exactly! There are no popular, famous people nowadays that aren't just plain horrible!

In the 1990's, aspie kids could at least pretend to like Michael Jordan or Michael Jackson (that is, Michael Jackson of the 90's, not 2000's). Those people had some likable traits. They were positive people who achieved their goals through skills and hard work, much like aspie kids do in school. It's something aspies can relate to. But in 2013, the famous people (like ones above) are very difficult to like, without zombified crowds telling you to like them. After all, they achieved their fame through luck and social connections. And since aspie kids usually don't have those things and don't see the point of following the crowd, we have the OP's post and kids who can't write hero essays.



ASDMommyASDKid
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20 Jan 2013, 1:47 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
This may be true now, but I have clear memories of those hero essays in my 6th grade English classes. It was the 1990's, and almost all boys wrote about one of these two heroes: Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson. (Good god, I feel old. :)) Not sure who girls wrote about, since that was before I got interested in them. Not yet knowing about the "NT protocol" and its essay requirements, I wrote about Thomas Edison "because he was smart". I was bullied mercilessly for weeks, although it was mostly by one or two people.


I agree the social component is a problem. I don't think we had to give oral reports for those things (Just written) and if anyone had asked me who I did my essay on, they would not have been surprised as my special interests were pretty known. That is not to say it would not have made things worse but there was plenty of teasing fodder without it. don't really know that that would have been worse than anything else that I was already having trouble with.

As to your major point of whether it is worse now because of the vapid people that are commonly idolized: I am not 100% sure. In someways "nerd culture" is more acceptable than it was "back in my day" due to the love people have for the technologies that "nerds" produce. So if one's special interests run that way, it may not be as bad as it was.

I can't verify that but I suspect it to be the case. If one were really worried about public reaction one could go with somebody like Steve Jobs because kids love Angry Birds and it might be OK. At any rate, Thomas Edison is Thomas Edison regardless of whether all your peers pick RGIII or if some pick RGIII. Justin Bieber or Kanye. (As examples that may or not be what NT kids would pick.) I think the abuse would be about the same.



Eliasandjonasmom
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20 Jan 2013, 5:06 pm

Thank you for all of your answers. It helps alot to see all of the other angles you guys had to offer, some which apply to us and some dont, but just good to know about. We had another writing assignment this weekend. An essay, any topic, 2 pages typed. So After the hero flop, I thought okay be flexiable let him write anything he likes. What does he pick? The history of mine craft.......... Almost everything in my mind was saying no red flag dont do it. But I want him to be able to write about what he enjoys so maybe his writting skills will grow, and improvment would be wonderful. So I sat down with him maybe 10 min and we talked about possible topics to talk about involving the game that would be appropriate. I go downstairs to change the laundry and when I returned (like literally 2 minute later), my ds has got a page and a half copied and pasted to his report from a website, 90% not his own ideas and at least half the stuff he either didnt get the idea of the sentence or there were words totally not in his vocabulary, when I asked him what they meant or what he meant by that he was at a loss lol... So I tried breaking it down with him a little bit and he got flustered and wanted to change the topic. He changed it to sharks, and did some brainstorming on a seperate sheet of paper and this paper is coming out much better. Hes got a good head start and its not due until friday so a little each night should not be too terrible. I tried talking with him about we can brain storm ideas with mine craft too, but he got so frustserated/uninterested it was a total waste of my breath saying anything about it, so I backed off, since he was putting so much effort into the new paper about sharks, and doing a better job about it. I guess we will just keep plugging away at this one paper at a time. When I try to make any suggestion or help him as calmly and patiently as I can , he gets almost upset and overwhelmed and rushes over everything. I dont want to tell him exactly what to write or how to do it, I try to lay low as possible, but he gets frusterated so fast. Its so hard when he obviously needs some help, and I want to help but he doesnt want me to help. I will talk to the teachers at school some more about it, maybe there is an older student or someone else at the school who could work with ds on it without bugging him so much. One paper at a time whew lol.



momsparky
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20 Jan 2013, 7:06 pm

Somewhere here, I posted about a "script" we use for essays. Essentially I created a very carefully explained worksheet that he could plug stuff in and then if you remove the worksheet part, it's an essay. DS learned language structure - a big stumbling block for him - in this way. Kidspiration is a software that works similarly, if you want to go that route.

Here are a couple ideas - I'd take them and re-work them in language that is friendly to him. Keep in mind - bullet points, not exposition when you rework them.

http://www.regent.edu/admin/stusrv/writ ... ksheet.pdf

http://bitsofwisdomforall.com/2011/06/0 ... h-essay-2/ (see the section entitled "write your sentences worksheet)

There are multiple things that could be happening here, and you have to do some detective work and break them down one by one. For us, the worksheet helped us with my son's inability to see the "forest for the trees." He was so bewildered by the entire project that he couldn't figure out where to begin. He needed a roadmap to see the entire project from beginning to completion, because he had an idea that he would never get to the end.

Making sure the language you're using to direct him is EXTREMELY literal is another thing to look at. You can see that in some of the "Hero" discussion above.

Keeping verbal language out of it as much as possible, and writing things in bulleted lists helps a lot (many aspies make sure that all their work interactions are reinforced with emails for this reason.)

Removing distractions. We don't let my son do work on the computer at home because he will just surf the internet. Sometimes we have to move him away from books, toys and other stuff, too.



ASDMommyASDKid
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20 Jan 2013, 11:24 pm

Kids often have different ways their brains organize information. After reading about it on here, I tried mind mapping (a visual representation) sort of chart where you start with the topic in the center and move outward. I thought that would work because my son is so visual, but it turns out he is too much of a linear thinker and it was not a good fit for him.

Anyway, I would try to get your son to start off organizing his thoughts in different ways to see what suits him best. I know I HATED outlines when I was younger, because it took extra time and I just wanted to get the thing done, but once I figured out how to organize my thoughts, it really does work better for me now then when I was writing something and had to figure out a way to get an essay to stretch another half or whole page or whatever.

If he does an outline (or some other method) he may find he is so much information that he can start prioritizing what to use, and that is an important executive function, too.



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21 Jan 2013, 12:34 am

Eliasandjonasmom wrote:
Thank you for all of your answers. It helps alot to see all of the other angles you guys had to offer, some which apply to us and some dont, but just good to know about. We had another writing assignment this weekend. An essay, any topic, 2 pages typed. So After the hero flop, I thought okay be flexiable let him write anything he likes. What does he pick? The history of mine craft.......... Almost everything in my mind was saying no red flag dont do it. But I want him to be able to write about what he enjoys so maybe his writting skills will grow, and improvment would be wonderful. So I sat down with him maybe 10 min and we talked about possible topics to talk about involving the game that would be appropriate. I go downstairs to change the laundry and when I returned (like literally 2 minute later), my ds has got a page and a half copied and pasted to his report from a website, 90% not his own ideas and at least half the stuff he either didnt get the idea of the sentence or there were words totally not in his vocabulary, when I asked him what they meant or what he meant by that he was at a loss lol... So I tried breaking it down with him a little bit and he got flustered and wanted to change the topic. He changed it to sharks, and did some brainstorming on a seperate sheet of paper and this paper is coming out much better. Hes got a good head start and its not due until friday so a little each night should not be too terrible. I tried talking with him about we can brain storm ideas with mine craft too, but he got so frustserated/uninterested it was a total waste of my breath saying anything about it, so I backed off, since he was putting so much effort into the new paper about sharks, and doing a better job about it. I guess we will just keep plugging away at this one paper at a time. When I try to make any suggestion or help him as calmly and patiently as I can , he gets almost upset and overwhelmed and rushes over everything. I dont want to tell him exactly what to write or how to do it, I try to lay low as possible, but he gets frusterated so fast. Its so hard when he obviously needs some help, and I want to help but he doesnt want me to help. I will talk to the teachers at school some more about it, maybe there is an older student or someone else at the school who could work with ds on it without bugging him so much. One paper at a time whew lol.


Thanks for the update.

It is tough figuring out what is going on with kids like ours, but it is so very much worth investing in the process, staying non-judgmental, and being there for them. When my son was in 6th grade I had to do a lot of brainstorming with him, take a lot of long walks with him to get him thinking out-of-the-box with less frustration (just something that worked for him, who knows why), and basically be on call for his needs every hour of every evening. When he was in 7th grade I still did a lot of that, but less. By the time he was in 8th grade, I was only supporting him through the big special projects he'd get overly ambitious about. Basically, these are tough years, but it is good to hear your son seems to have made some progress for this latest assignment.

There is nothing wrong with supporting him in every way you can think of until his development catches up with the expectations school is putting on him, in my opinion. It is what some kids need.

Best of luck.


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Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).