Low Frustration Tolerance & Rigidity of Thinking

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Tufted Titmouse
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26 Jan 2013, 7:47 pm

Mama_to_Grace wrote:
momsparky wrote:
I think "the warm sun was like the orange fluffy cat" is an awesome metaphor, myself!


I agree! Some of the other ones were:

The scarf was as red as _______________ (She put the sun)
The hill was as slippery as _____________(she put an iceskate)
I slid down the hill like a ____________(she put a wet water balloon :lol: )
The fire in the fireplace was like__________(she put an uncontrollable tiger)
The snow was like ___________(she put a pillow filled with feathers)

I think these are actually very creative!


You are a better human being than me, I would have already been at the school trustees office if that came home.

F that dumb@$$ teacher!

Tell your daughter the teacher is a moron, she will learn soon enough that many teachers are idiots.

As for helping your daughter to do things. It is my experience that saying things like 'its easy' or 'you won't fail' are counter productive.

Try telling her 'XXX IS hard and you will fail at it until you don't' or 'it is hard now but that is why we practice' or even 'you will almost certainly fail, but try and fail as failure rocks' I often say 'well try it this time and if it doesn't work I will help'

You need to get rid of the FEAR OF FAILURE this is not an easy thing to do, you are going to deal with meltdowns and discomfort for everyone involved but long term it should help.

Good luck!



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26 Jan 2013, 8:31 pm

It's a losing battle. This year especially I have really noticed the curriculum is stacked against the aspie mind. In a book report they had to answer such questions as
How do you relate to the main character?
How does the story make you feel?
It was several days of confusion for my daughter as I tried and tried to explain to her what they were looking for in these questions. Her mind does not work this way...she does not generalize well so these were quite difficult for her to answer.
This year seems to be the beginning of this type of learning, which has started all of her doubting. She doesn't understand how these types of questions are so easy for her peers. She is fact based-give her some fact to memorize and she does very, very well. But when you have a teacher that doesn't accept " I do not relate to this character at all." as an answer or the fact that the sun is indeed actually RED you're left with trying explain to your child what the teacher is looking for in an answer and not actually what the question really says. Ugggh.



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26 Jan 2013, 8:46 pm

I will take this opportunity to recommend my favorite program yet another time:

http://www.socialthinking.com/books-pro ... age-detail

This works well for both of my kids (7 and 11).


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momsparky
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26 Jan 2013, 8:47 pm

Can you give her a script to follow? When DS was in 1st or 2nd grade (I forget which) he was in the lowest reading "group" in his class, and forced to read books that had just a sentence on each page (he was reading much more complex stuff at home) largely because the teacher wasn't convinced he comprehended what he was reading.

I finally found a set of questions and "translated" them for him: "When they say how do you relate to the main character, they mean they want an example of anything in your life that is similar to the main character. For instance, if the character was angry, you could compare that to a time when you were angry." and then I walked him through how to do that specific to the book. Eventually he figured out what they wanted and was able to spit it out for them.

Really, you might tell her they are asking for exactly the same sort of thing that she did with the metaphors - a comparison between one thing and another, just in this case comparing herself to the main character.

How does the story make you feel is another one you can learn by rote: explain that the teacher usually expects her to share the feelings of the main character as they are at the end of the book, or even that she follows the feelings through the book "At the beginning of the book, I felt sad and scared when the main character was lost, but when she found her parents, I was happy."

If you try to give her literal scripts to follow for even very general, subjective questions, she might well be able to follow them. Once DS figured out how to do this, he went from the lowest reading group to the highest within a couple of weeks (meaning, of course, he was comprehending just fine - he just didn't know how to express what he learned.

Another tool I used for him, when they ask what the book was about "Say the same thing as the book does, but use fewer than 10 words." or however many words they want. ("Use your own words" didn't help - but he understood how to restate the ideas as long as I found a roundabout way to prevent him from using a direct quote. I used to have this problem, too - to me the author always said it exactly as it should be said; why would I say it any other way?)



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26 Jan 2013, 9:29 pm

Mama_to_Grace wrote:
It's a losing battle. This year especially I have really noticed the curriculum is stacked against the aspie mind. In a book report they had to answer such questions as
How do you relate to the main character?
How does the story make you feel?


We are having this same issue, too. Fiction is just so hard for my son to relate to. Even if he were comfortable with the notion of wanting to know how someone (a character in a story or a person in real life) felt there is absolutely no way he would have the same feelings about things as the NTs. So basically he is going to have to learn about psychology by figuring how to game these questions while the NT kids have the easier route of using real life experiences to understand the reading.



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27 Jan 2013, 9:33 am

momsparky wrote:
Can you give her a script to follow? When DS was in 1st or 2nd grade (I forget which) he was in the lowest reading "group" in his class, and forced to read books that had just a sentence on each page (he was reading much more complex stuff at home) largely because the teacher wasn't convinced he comprehended what he was reading.

I finally found a set of questions and "translated" them for him: "When they say how do you relate to the main character, they mean they want an example of anything in your life that is similar to the main character. For instance, if the character was angry, you could compare that to a time when you were angry." and then I walked him through how to do that specific to the book. Eventually he figured out what they wanted and was able to spit it out for them.

Really, you might tell her they are asking for exactly the same sort of thing that she did with the metaphors - a comparison between one thing and another, just in this case comparing herself to the main character.

How does the story make you feel is another one you can learn by rote: explain that the teacher usually expects her to share the feelings of the main character as they are at the end of the book, or even that she follows the feelings through the book "At the beginning of the book, I felt sad and scared when the main character was lost, but when she found her parents, I was happy."

If you try to give her literal scripts to follow for even very general, subjective questions, she might well be able to follow them. Once DS figured out how to do this, he went from the lowest reading group to the highest within a couple of weeks (meaning, of course, he was comprehending just fine - he just didn't know how to express what he learned.

Another tool I used for him, when they ask what the book was about "Say the same thing as the book does, but use fewer than 10 words." or however many words they want. ("Use your own words" didn't help - but he understood how to restate the ideas as long as I found a roundabout way to prevent him from using a direct quote. I used to have this problem, too - to me the author always said it exactly as it should be said; why would I say it any other way?)


She is very resisitant to doing anything "just because". So if I tell her what to say she says I am wrong, that I don't understand what the teacher told her, and then she learns the hard way. She just did a project yesterday where I know there are a lot of issues that the teacher is going to pick apart. My daughter is happy with the project so I am internally struggling with whether to let her get the grade on the work she did or try to guide her on some corrections (which she would take as massive criticism and would be very upset).

My mother thinks I should let her fail on her own and stay out of it and I ususally try to do the opposite of what my mother says because she gives horrible advice HA! :lol:



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27 Jan 2013, 2:27 pm

LOL, yup, we had this too - I think I only succeeded because DS was so sick of being required to read such stupid books. It was a while ago, so I don't really remember exactly how I got around or through that particular obstacle, I only know that I did.

Will the teacher or someone else at the school work with you? I recognize that this teacher may not be ideal, but she may be willing to work with your daughter if you give her a framework that works. If not, does she have any kind of support person at school (speech therapist, social worker) who could step in and do it? It's really tough when the school isn't on board.

Maybe if you come up with scripts you think will work, and give them to the teacher/social worker to work with her on, she will figure it out.



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27 Jan 2013, 4:00 pm

That's tough... the upside of having a child who did not work very well independently until this year was that she expected me to help, doing a pretty substantial amount of the work. I went from dictating sentences to beginning the sentences and asking her to add a word or two and then finally to scribing for her. Sometimes she does the whole thing now, but just as often she avoids doing any of it: guess that's our next step!
Here's one of the pages from a good website I found:
Readers with Autism
I have to say that identifying hyperlexia / low reading comprehension was one of my key discoveries, and has helped a lot.
J.



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27 Jan 2013, 4:17 pm

This may be a weird piece of advice, but on the off chance it helps...

My son's reading comprehension used to stink. We would read a passage and when I'd ask him about it, he'd only remember an insignificant tid-bit of information ("A dog crossed the street" when the story was not about dogs, or crossing the street). One day I let him chew gum when reading. Not only could he recount what happened, he remembered entire passages verbatim. He now likes to read--even fiction--but will still usually chew gum when doing so.


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27 Jan 2013, 4:26 pm

momsparky wrote:
LOL, yup, we had this too - I think I only succeeded because DS was so sick of being required to read such stupid books. It was a while ago, so I don't really remember exactly how I got around or through that particular obstacle, I only know that I did.

Will the teacher or someone else at the school work with you? I recognize that this teacher may not be ideal, but she may be willing to work with your daughter if you give her a framework that works. If not, does she have any kind of support person at school (speech therapist, social worker) who could step in and do it? It's really tough when the school isn't on board.

Maybe if you come up with scripts you think will work, and give them to the teacher/social worker to work with her on, she will figure it out.


This teacher is willing to work with my dd and she does quite a bit...the problem is the teacher does does not get the theory of mind issues at all. My dd is different from your son, at least for the reading, she wants the very low level books with one sentence per page (and pictures because she is very visual and gets a lot of her data from the pictures). I am starting to wonder if perhaps there is something else going on to cause her reading difficulties. If she sees a word, even a very difficult word she can focus and decode the word accurately. But when you string several words together she cannot attend to the decoding quickly enough to fluently read for more than a paragraph. And her errors increase the longer she reads. She also doesn't retain the storyline as she is reading, because I think she is too busy attending to the decoding process. She is not a multi-tasker and reading takes a great amount of multi-tasking it seems.

I'm pretty sure this teacher has not encountered a student with the profile of my daughter before---and while she knows she is smart (she likes to answer questions in class verbally), it just doesn't manifest in good written work (by NT standards :roll: ). We have always been focusing on my daughter's anxiety levels, so explaining to a teacher TOM issues is new to me.

She does best with non-fiction books on nature or space with a lot of large pictures. If she has a picture that represents the written words she can incorporate the written data into information easier. It has to do with her being extremely visual I think-so I need to figure out how to convert words into images in her head as she reads-as you can imagine this is much more difficult with a fiction book about something which she has not seen or experienced in some way before.



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27 Jan 2013, 4:30 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
This may be a weird piece of advice, but on the off chance it helps...

My son's reading comprehension used to stink. We would read a passage and when I'd ask him about it, he'd only remember an insignificant tid-bit of information ("A dog crossed the street" when the story was not about dogs, or crossing the street). One day I let him chew gum when reading. Not only could he recount what happened, he remembered entire passages verbatim. He now likes to read--even fiction--but will still usually chew gum when doing so.


I will try this! It has also been suggested to me that this could be "ADHD" issues (which I just don't understand as this is a child that can do a puzzle for a long time/study maps for long periods/etc etc) and I've thought about giver her a coke or some tea with Caffeine to she if she performs better. Don't know if this is a reasonable experiment to attempt????



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27 Jan 2013, 4:38 pm

My son has pretty severe ADD, but his ability to hyperfocus is really quite remarkable. I find this to be true of myself, too, and is the main reason I never realized I had ADD--I can focus VERY well. I just can't seem to control what I focus on. So if something adequately engages me, I can focus on it to the point that other things get missed. But sometimes really important things don't get done because I cannot make myself stay focused on it long enough.

I have a friend who's son is "more autistic" than mine (IOW my son seems mostly ADD with a touch of ASD and her's seems mostly ASD with a touch of ADD) and she uses small doses of caffeine with success. I don't see the harm in trying it.


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27 Jan 2013, 5:50 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
she uses small doses of caffeine with success. I don't see the harm in trying it.


In the same vein, we've been allowing DS a cup of coffee in the morning - which, for him, amounts to about 1/4 cup of actual coffee what with the huge amount of milk and the sugar cube he adds. I can't really tell if it makes a difference or not, but it doesn't seem to hurt.



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27 Jan 2013, 10:16 pm

Has she been assessed for dyslexia?



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28 Jan 2013, 10:24 am

Bombaloo wrote:
Has she been assessed for dyslexia?


No, she has never been assessed for dyslexia. She does do/say things that sound dyslexic like says when she sees a page of print it just looks jumbled to her (but this could be a visual processing issue) also she transposes letters when reading, but not consistently. She does not transpose letters when writing-she is a very good at spelling.

Who tests for dyslexia?



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28 Jan 2013, 12:45 pm

Mama_to_Grace wrote:
momsparky wrote:
I think "the warm sun was like the orange fluffy cat" is an awesome metaphor, myself!


I agree! Some of the other ones were:

The scarf was as red as _______________ (She put the sun)
The hill was as slippery as _____________(she put an iceskate)
I slid down the hill like a ____________(she put a wet water balloon :lol: )
The fire in the fireplace was like__________(she put an uncontrollable tiger)
The snow was like ___________(she put a pillow filled with feathers)

I think these are actually very creative!


I can't believe the teacher wrote "I don't understand any of these", especially as I want to work with children with SEN, specialising in ASD. (I have suspected AS myself, and am going through the diagnosis process).

If I was her teacher, my comments would be:
The warm sun was like the orange fluffy cat... Well done, you saw that the sun was orange! The sun however is warm, so can you think of something that's warm to compare it to?
(I'm not sure of her age; I'm from the UK, so I mght phrase it differently depending on age, but there's nothing wrong with writing a compliment and then the answer you actually want her to get).

The scarf was as red as _______________ (She put the sun) Very good attempt! Can you think of anything else that's more red than the sun? E.g. Tomato etc.
I slid down the hill like a ____________(she put a wet water balloon :lol:). Very clever! (I don't think that there's anything wrong with this).

The fire in the fireplace was like__________(she put an uncontrollable tiger). Brilliant idea!
(I think she thought of the colour AND the way that one would behaviour. Nothing wrong with this at all!)

The snow was like ___________(she put a pillow filled with feathers). Yes! The snow is very soft. Can you think of something that's white like snow?

Now of course I'm not qualified to comment yet, so my ideas may be a load of rubbish, but I definitely wouldn't have written what her teacher did.

Moreover, your daughter should be praised for her answers! Yes, on the first sentence she didn't quite get the idea that the teacher wanted her to notice the fact that the sun is warm instead of its colour, but she still thought about her answer! Also, the rest of the answers are very good!

Teachers like this make me very angry!