how do you make them understand?

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I don't think either of you will be teaching your kids what you hope to teach them if you do this exact thing. I already addressed it in my post above - but to recap, you don't seem to understand how our issues with focus work. This is the equivalent of sticking a candy in a kid's mouth, long enough to let them taste how good it is - then jerking it out. No matter who - or what - jerks it out, the implicit lesson is that the world is irrational and sadistic and the "reward" is no more than a trick. After all, he's just going to be starting to get into it.

Positive sensory input, unlike an activity, could be a real reward, and on top of that, it would actively help him destress and settle down to what he absolutely must endure.

I appreciate your feedback, but I think you need to remember that each child and each person is unique. What works for one person on the spectrum might not for another and vice versa.

This works for my son. I am also on the spectrum and a modified version works for me as an adult. My son and I did come up with our way of handling things together, but when he was younger, I just tried stuff until something worked - you kind of have to when your child doesn't communicate well.

That being said, I would make sure that if you used any kind of a game, it has a clear beginning, middle and end that work within your time frame.

I do agree with you that every person is unique. And I don't doubt this works - but I wonder if you've ever paid attention to the implicit lessons buried beneath that layer.

I could be entirely wrong - I'm not saying that's never happened before. But this occurred to me because I'm finally dealing with the implications of so many things that have lain buried for years, even decades. To use an analogy of what I'm trying to say, DDT worked, but no one noticed the harmful side effects. And - at least in my case - I learned to go through motions, and in that sense, certain things did work, but the negative side effects were pretty toxic.

I understand if you're desperate and you're trying to come up with something that works, it can be tempting to snatch at the first choice you find that does work. I was, at least in the case of the OP (I have no idea if this applies to you or your son) specifically pointing out her own observation that he gets upset when the game is taken away. This makes sense to me, because it's an issue of focus. He's just starting to get into the game, and what he craves is a nice, uninterrupted session to enjoy, to get lost in. At least, that's how I interpret it. I've found - no matter how badly I want to play (and there are computer games I'm addicted to) - that the overall effect if I play for a short time is frustration. Which, even if it works as a bribe, will make everything else harder. And, as I mentioned, will also reinforce the idea the world is an irrational, cruel place. Not explicitly - that's not what he's being told. It's what he's absorbing, by experience. Even if he learns not to get outwardly upset when the game is taken away, that may not mean it isn't having this effect. I learned, with many things, to suppress my misery, because it did no good to show it. But I still felt it, inside. In fact, suppressing it made me feel it even more strongly.

If I'm wrong, and this is fine for your son, then by all means, ignore me. It isn't as if I have any power to make you do anything else, anyway. But I do urge you to at least think about what I've said. Many things that work have unintended consequences - and, at least in the case of the OP, I suspect those will be both short and long term. (The short term being a higher level of frustration in general, the long term being the implicit lesson I mentioned.)

Thanks for all the ideas and input, its greatly apreciated!

I'm first going to say that I feel for you, because I do know what it is like to live with an extremely oppositional child. I have three boys. The oldest is almost 13, the middle is 15 months younger--he'll be 12 in June, and the youngest is 7 years younger than that--he'll be 5 in June. The oldest is HFA, the middle is ADHD and ODD, not sure on the little one yet.

I get a little from both of them from what you are describing. My oldest has had serious issues with school based activities, maintaining basic hygiene (we had to re-teach him how to use shampoo six months ago), He has serious fine motor issues and any kind of writing (which for him means any form of using a writing implement to form letters or numbers) was considered torture by him up until recently. Since almost every assignment in school involves some form of using a pencil or crayon, we have spent years with very, very little to physically show for our homeschooling efforts. I understand how disheartening it can be to see how well and easily all the other kids in the co-op (or just any kids you know) do their work. It can be very embarrassing to be asked by friends, family, even your spouse, "How's school going?" when you know that you have nothing to physically show them. I know some states are very picky and in your business when you are homeschooling. I don't know if you are in one of those states. If you are, then I strongly suggest you get an IEP worked out that takes into account his current state. It is nearly unthinkable, but it may be required for you to back off of school output for now. He is 7 1/2, taking the developmental delay that is inherent in an ASD into account, you are forcing a child with the maturity of something like a 4-5 year old into trying to have the output expected of a second grader. You don't mention if he also has any physical delays like my son, but if he does that will definitely be contributing to his hatred of school work.

We went through several years with the oldest of him being completely unmotivatable (I know, made up word). Taking things away didn't work, offering rewards didn't work. There was just nothing that he wanted so badly or missed so badly that would make him want to work on things he found too hard. He has finally become more willing to cooperate even when it is something he doesn't like that well. I don't believe it was ever anything I really did that brought this change. It had a lot more to do with him hitting a development spurt. His mind is just much more logical now than it was a couple of years ago. He is capable of understanding the abstract idea now that everyone even grown-ups have to do things they don't always like, but we can often manage them in a way that we find less distasteful. By that I mean that finally at 12 he is able to participate actively in a conversation about how to make things more tolerable for him with school work. He still isn't at the stage that he really owns the concept, and he still isn't able to internally motivate yet. Even last year at 11 a conversation with him centered on how to help him do more school work was basically a "I don't know."

Things we have done while writing wasn't much of an option: Documentaries. For years these were about the only TV we watched (we haven't had live TV since 2006. We've had Netflix, no commercials and a lot of control of what and when you watch), and the kids have learned a lot of science and history from these (mostly animal stuff as they like that better than history). I have read a lot of books out loud, and there have been a lot of audiobooks. This one is more for the middle kid as he's been a very slow reader. We did all of our spelling activities orally. We went on a lot of field trips. We spent a lot of time working on social skills and life skills. I did keep trying to get some written work (so he at least wouldn't forget how to make the letters and sign his name), but it often consisted of drawing a picture of what they learned, which was less objectionable than writing and then labeling it with the least number of words possible. I also designed several worksheets like "History's Characters" where they were supposed to fill in several blanks about a historical figure. It amounted to the same info contained in a short report, but only required a very tiny amount of writing. I have taken a lot of dictation from him, also. When it comes to expected outputs, this kid is just physically SLOW. If I think something should take him 15 minutes to get it done--he's going to take an hour. This means that at the seventh grade level he just isn't capable of getting through a normal amount of school work. For equal effort he ends up with less than 20% results. We've worked a bit on typing to help, but that hasn't helped much as it is still hard for him physically to type. When he was diagnosed, the speech pathologist suggested getting him a speech to text system.

When I say we worked a lot on life skills, he doesn't pick them up in a standard way. He was much more open to learning things like how to load and run the washing machine and dryer than he is still to this day to picking his clothes up immediately. It has been much easier for him to learn how to cook some things than it has been to get him to take his dirty dishes to the sink after eating. He is now starting to see the benefit of picking up his clothes instead of leaving them lying around as they are more likely to get into the washer that way. The same thing with his dishes (none of our dishes match, and we all have particular spoons and forks, bowls and plates, that are "ours"). He's figured out on his own that if he pulls the covers over his sheets that the cats can't track dirt onto his sheets after they roll in dust outside. If he puts his things away, then his baby brother can't scatter them out and they don't get broken. No amount of me telling him these made any difference. He'd just come up to me one day and announce his amazing discovery, and I'd try to hold in any "Haven't I been telling you this for YEARS!?" comments to myself. Those are for their dad's ears only when he gets home from work and I need to get it out. It is incredibly annoying sometimes to be reminded that I really can't influence him to much in some things, though I am always proud of him when he figures one of them out.

That was my kid on the ASD spectrum that has given me fits over some of these things, but he has never been actively oppositional. His non-compliance issues have all pretty much been traceable directly to his ASD traits and I don't consider that oppositional. It's more of a puzzle that needs solving, and while that lack of evidence of learning can be pretty hard to take, it's nothing compared to having a kid screaming in your face that you are not the boss, that he is the only one that matters anywhere, that he wants the baby gone because he doesn't deserve the cruelty of having to share his mom, that nothing that exists anywhere is ever, ever, ever fair to him, ever, and he should never have to do anything that he doesn't explicitly want to do at that particular moment.

That would be my middle child, and yeah, unless you have lived with a kid like that it's just about impossible to understand what dealing with them is like. At 7 we did see some signs of improvement over how he behaved at age 3 when he was at his worst, so we did have some glimmer of hope. I definitely can't say that I have handled every situation with him the best way possible. I am not even sure it is possible to live with that kind of opposition day in and day out with no respite whatsoever, because you're homeschooling and don't even get the state mandated warehousing for 8 hours a day, and to still handle every second of every day the best way possible. Especially not with other children who also need a lot from you.

Some things we have done that helped (remember this kid isn't on the ASD spectrum, so some of this might not work at all with an ASD child).

1) This kid LOVES stickers and any other reward system, but only if they are ONLY used for positive reinforcement. There can be no loss of anything on the system for bad behavior, or he'll never engage with that system again. You'd think we'd learn, but the temptation to take one of his stickers/marbles/etc when he is being SO BAD (especially if he had just earned one right before the badness) has been too tempting several times, and we've basically shot ourselves in the foot multiple times by doing that.

2) If there is something that is causing nothing but hysterics, then it is better to completely do away with it than to have it sitting there with me denying it to him. Even if this causes pain to the rest of us, in the long run the lack of hysterics is beneficial. I once cut the cord on his game controller (which he is still capable of working up a gripe over if reminded of it six years later) due to his total lack of cooperation with limits on it. I didn't replace the controller for three years. He didn't get to play games. He was reminded that it was his behavior that resulted in the total loss of games. When I thought he could handle limits better I replaced his controller. I know this sounds cruel, and yes there were short term tantrums, but long run amount of time playing games was one less thing to fight over.

3) This kid is severely ADHD. Physical activity in great quantities is required. We used an elliptical indoors with him combined with many hours outdoors. He is sensory seeking, so anything physical that also resulted in good solid sensory input helped calm him down (sitting on an exercise ball instead of a chair, a weight vest, being tickled). Coffee helps calm him down and so does his favorite hot tea. Not requiring him to sit still for any activity that--well for any activity helped. Not being required to be at the table during listening activities helped. He'd listen while playing with Legos, using his brother's therapy putty, laying in the floor and kicking his legs over his head--anything he wanted so long as he was quiet. He used to be asked to work for five minutes on things that took concentration and then got 15 minutes of time to run. To work up to five minutes we started at 15 seconds. Yes. Really. We started with 15 seconds of work and worked up to five minutes over a couple of months. We never really made it over five minutes. Trying just resulted in tantrums.

4) Expect behavior that is appropriate for a much younger child, even if the kid has no intellectual/verbal/social delays. When I was able to keep in mind that he has an issue that means that his ability to control his impulses is severely delayed, things go much more smoothly. And he is developing. It is agonizingly slow at times, but he is better able to control himself at almost 12 than he was at 7. His current ability might only be appropriate for an NT child of 8 on an average day or on a bad day, a child of 4, but he is growing, and his really bad days are happening less often.

5) Logic based thinking is a foreign language to him, or was at age 7. The average child enters a stage of thinking at about age 6 where they think in cause and effect. Neither of my kids hit that before age 9, on bad days the ability to use that type of thinking goes right out the window. He can't be reasoned with when he isn't capable of thinking in terms that a reasonable person can understand. Think about how much good it does to try to use logic to convince a two year to change their mind about something. Some days this kid even at almost 12 can't be reasoned with at any higher level than a two year old. I've tried (even when I should have known better). It only results in escalation and bad feelings all around.

6) Choices within a framework. I've heard this advice for dealing with toddlers before. Presenting them with an entire closet full of clothes to choose from is overwhelming and will often result in them making (to us) outrageous choices like wanting to wear a bikini bathing suit top, snow pants, and socks as an ensemble when you have to take them into public and a screaming meltdown when you deny them the choice they made. Not giving them a choice at all results in a meltdown when they feel like they aren't getting to control their lives enough. Choices within a framework works pretty well here. Pick out two bottoms and two tops that are mix and match and let the toddler pick her outfit from the items in front of her. She had a real choice, you get her into public matching. Things go best with my oppositional child when I am able to give him choices within a framework. He can work on either math or geography. He can do a chore or homework. He can eat the supper I cooked or a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Often, just getting a say in the situation will avert his being oppositional.

7) Some days are just no good, rotten, horrible, bad days. Some days, he gets up and I recognize all the signs that he is going to have a day where he processes things more on the level of a 4 year old than a 12 year. For everyone's sanity, if it is humanly possible, I don't ask a lot of him. If it can be rescheduled, put off, or handled myself that day, I do it. All that's going to happen from trying school and chores that day is triggering a week or more of similar behavior that ends up with having to take a month off to get him back to functioning at his normal level.

8 ) Pick my battles. If you've never lived with a very oppositional child, then you have no idea how quickly a tiny issue can go from nothing to a full scale tantrum where the kid has his heels dug in determined to never ever cooperate with you ever again. Sometimes, I want my kid to do whatever it is now, but I have learned to recognize situations where pushing him right then is going to get me nothing but opposition, and if it isn't a safety issue, I can wait a little while and come back to it. Often utilizing his distractibility from his ADHD to get his mind on something else gives him the space from the defiance to forget about it or to be able to back off from it without seeming like he has lost. Phrasing things as requests or favors, even when he knows he has to do them works well with him for the same reason. As he is now able to express without yelling, "I just really hate being told what to do." He is getting to the point where he can actively work on this through logical thinking also, but only on good days.

9) I don't think this one applies so much to an ASD child, at least not all of them, but an average child will not starve themselves to death. I am pretty lenient, as I have terrible memories of being forced repeatedly to choke down fresh tomatoes, and I still can't even think about eating them without gagging even though I really like tomatoes eaten in every other way. My step mom is not very lenient in this. She won't force them to eat food they hate (they'd always have some options, just not candy), but she has set meal times, and if you don't eat at that meal then you don't get snacks. I've never seen a kid skip eating a decent meal more than twice before they are ready to eat at the table at meal time. I do believe there are some special needs kids who would refuse until they starved though, so your willingness to be strict in this is up to knowing your child. All of mine have at some point or other decided they were not going to eat at meal times while staying over there (and the two oldest have had some feeding issues at times when they were in preschool, enough that I worried over them), and they never refused to eat a third meal. It wasn't easy to watch, but they ate a lot better in general afterward.

Well, take any of it that makes sense to you, and hold on for the tough years ahead, delayed development does still equal development even it's painfully slow.

LOL, OMG yes - and this is SOOO much harder (in my experience) for parents to learn than it would be for kids! We tried all kinds of different stuff, tokens, stickers, etc (and we suck at administrating) and we finally figured out that the minute we take anything away, we were done.

This happens at school, too - he loves his teachers - until the day he really ticks one off and she gets (appropriately) angry and stern. From that point on, the teacher is evil and any work he did willingly before is now grudgingly meted out. Fortunately, in middle school they have so many teachers and the teachers see so many kids that there isn't really enough contact for this sort of thing to happen.

MiahClone, your post is so good! You really made several very sound points.

I would just like to add that meal time sitting at the table is a difficult area for some ASD people. I'm not even sure what all the reasons are (bright lights, loud kitchen noises, hard chairs?) but eating at the table is like a least favorite thing or sometimes dreaded thing. Think about trying to eat while different people are talking at the same time, and there are weird smells, and you are sitting somewhere uncomfortable. As an adult I have adapted and can survive the experience, but my preference to this day is to make food, and take it into the living room so I can sit in my favorite rocking recliner, which is very soft and encompassing and rocks quietly. Also the lighting is dim and it is (for me anyway) meant to be a solitary activity. The sounds of other people eating can be very agravating and unappetizing. @_@

MMJMOM, I want to say from so many of your posts that my daughter is very much like your son. I will say this gets GRADUALLY better with time (my daughter is almost 10) but is a VERY slow process. My daughter still has days where she'll refuse to do anything, but then some days she is finally doing things on her own. For me, I really used positive reinforcement alot. We have a sticker chart and the stickers add up to benefits she likes (eat at her favorite restaurant, go to the science museum or get ice cream). So she works towards something. Now, at the end of the day she'll ask "Did I get my sticker?" and we have set criteria posted for how to earn a sticker. If she hasn't earned it I'll say-did you do everything on the chart today? And she'll admit when she hasn't (surprisingly). This hasn't led to a meltdown yet and has worked pretty well so far. She is SLOWLY starting to put together pride in accomplishment that results from getting those stickers! And then some days I'll admit she tells me she doesn't care about the sticker anyway and will go back to defiance. Lol. It's a process. And I had to dial back on giving her things she likes just because-because that made getting these little perks sweeter when we do without most of the time.

what wonderful thought out replies! Just a few answers:

My son could care less about getting a sticker, unless that sticker translated into vidoe game time. Which we have done in the past, his compliance reulted in stickers or coins that he got to trade in for video game time. Short lived. He lost the novelty of that quick.

My son isnt force fed. I dont expect him to clean his plate. I dont expect him to eat a huge 5 course meal. BUT if he takes ONE bite of food, and then says he is full, but wants snack, that gets to me. And here is a direct quote from my son, "I want snack now, but the snack cant be a fruit or a vegetable, it cant be a soup, it cant be anything you have to cook or get from the fridge." Basically he wants to eat saltines for dinner. I dont know many Drs that would condone my son eating crackers for dinned each night.

Here is another issue with my son. If I give him a choice of 2 things, he will chose a third that wasnt an option. ALWAYS. I say to him, "Do you want to start with math or spelling?" he will say ELA. He will say SCIENCE. That is the type of kid he is. If the directions in the book say circle the correct answer, he will underline it. If it says put a check in the box, he will put an X in the box. My son is oppositional to workbooks too...lol.

My son was much easier at 3 then he is now. He was more easygoing, more easy to redirect and had more interests. I can understand the comments about treating him like a child several years younger. But that would bring me to my 3yo who is capable and compliant beyond measure that my son is now. SO, when I think of that, I think, even a 3yo can do this, why cant he? Do I reduce him to a 15 month old? I dont get it???

my son gets overstimulated by too much physical activity, and once he is gone its so hard to reign him in. He loves it, loves to run, jump, wrestle, play tag, chase, etc...but it gets him extremely overstimulated. I have to try to keep him at an even level or we have even more issues. So, we do those things but I have to be really in tune to know when he is crossing that line. Once overstimulated he is then more prone to complete meltdowns.

He is homeschooled, I dont care if he is moving around while doiing schoolwork. Most days he is up, down, twirling, moving, etc..I dont care as long as the work is done.

UGH its hard there are no easy answers. Some days are just terrible for all, and it gets me so down. I just want to help him, for him to lead a productive life, for him to be happy.

Aside from the fact I'm guessing, just from the list he rejects, a lot of this is a texture issue - given what you've said, isn't the answer obvious? As long as you forbid him to have saltines, he's going to be obsessed with them. But if you tell him you're giving in, that's what you're getting for him to eat from now on, how long until he demands something other than what he's "supposed" to eat? See what he demands. If it is even halfway workable, just let him have that - but reluctantly enough to let him think he won. If it isn't, then rinse and repeat what you did with the saltines...

And I really don't think eating only saltines for a short while is that harmful.

In fact, when my mother had similar problems with me, the pediatrician finally told her to let me eat what I wanted - that it was better than nothing at all. That was when I actually started learning to eat a few things... It was when I wasn't pressed to eat any particular type of food that I at least settled on stuff I could have.

The food thing is tough. We have just recently gotten our son to eat a wider array of food. We still have a ton of issues with it, but it is better.

With spectrum kids once they get used to things it is really hard to overcome. I would try healthier versions of things he already eats, if you have not tried it before. For the saltines, try to find whole wheat crackers and mix them in with the saltines. Maybe he will try it. Then maybe ttry whole wheat bread...

Nagging tends to be counterproductive. I would try gentle encouragement. If he likes any shows like Yo Gabba Gabba or Daniel Tiger they have little songs you can sing about trying new foods. "There's a Party in My Tummy--So Yummy, So Yummy" or "Try a new food. It might Taste Goood..." and they have cute little segments on trying new foods. I have also just left small amounts of foods out for him to touch so he could get used to the texture, where I would not make him eat it. I just encouraged him to smell and touch it. (That is good for things that are sensory issues)

It is frustrating to have to move slow, but I have not figured out a way to rush things. It takes time.

I just found a great new resource on feeding kids http://thefeedingdoctor.com/ She specializes in adopted kids whose backgrounds in their birth homes may have exacerbated feeding issues, but I think a lot of what she writes can apply to kids on the spectrum, too.

This 4-part series was particularly helpful for me to read, it explains a lot: http://thefeedingdoctor.com/the-worry-c ... ion-month/

My own son has the if-you-give-me-choice-a-and-choice-b-I-will-come-up-with-c I don't have a good answer, other than that I stuck to my guns and just kept calmly saying "that's not an option - would it be easier if I chose for you?" DS would freak out, but eventually he grew out of it. I wish I could say that it was parenting on my part but I think really it was developmental - so my advice is to hang in there. (Here's a parenting article that basically says the same thing http://moms.popsugar.com/How-Give-Kids- ... n-27333074 )

I think the point of treating him like a smaller child is to think of him as a younger NT child, not as himself. So, developmentally, it is normal for an NT child to be oppositional at two or three (that's why they call it the "terrible twos" right?) DS was also an angel at around two years old - I thought I had this parenting thing all knocked out and done (HA!) I didn't realize at the time that him behaving better than other two-year-olds was actually a sign of a delay.

Take a look at this and see if it looks familiar: http://www.zerotothree.org/child-develo ... iance.html

For my own daughter, I have to be VERY consistent. If I let her eat saltines just ONE time, she will think that is always an option. It is practically impossible to undo something once it gets into her mind. I don't fight with her over food-we have WAY too many other things that are more important. The Dr who diagnosed her told me to tackle issues 1 at a time and I have always tried to stay true to this. My daughter will sometimes go a day without eating anything much at all (and I think a dr would really criticize that!) but the next day she eats. I don't make special stuff for her-she can eat what's available or not-her choice. And she NEVER gets to eat later (her thing used to be to try to delay bedtime by saying she's STARVING). It's harsh, yes at first, but then she realizes she better eat when it's available (or make something herself).

Also, what Miahclone said about getting rid of things that cause upset-so, so true! And that post was amazingly well written! I have literally thrown away things that cause upset. Let me tell you-that meltdown after throwing it away is 100% WORTH her believing me when I tell her, if you don't use this appropriately-it goes away. A little follow through goes a long way and creates "rules" in their minds!

And if your son doesn't care about a sticker but does care about a video game-then structure stickers = video game time. It will be a difficult transition that he doesn't just get video games by waking up in the morning-that he has to earn them-but once that is tackled, you'll have some currency for negotiations.

My daughter also has days where she is exceedingly oppositional like you describe with your son. While I might give her a little emotional leeway on those days I NEVER, EVER let her cross the line of decency (yelling, saying angry words) without repercussion. Whether it's due to ASD or not, I have to stay consistent---I JUST HAVE TO because if she "gets away with it" just once it will create a precendent in her mind and we go backwards.

And if he insists on underlining a word instead of what the directions say-then he should get the problem wrong (following the instructions is very important in life!). Which I don't know what results happen with poor marks in homeschooling but my daughter absolutely freaks out on bad grades and is very motivated to be "right".

that is my son to a T. If I give in or change teh rules ONE TIME, he will insist that is a chioce or option and never let it go. I dont mind if he doesnt eat a lot in a day. I DO mind if he doesnt eat and asks for snacks all day. If you are full, I am not going to force you to eat more. But dont take one bite of dinner, and then say I want a snack. Not working for me at all.

Also, I agree that disrespect isnt an option. Diagnosis or not. And that is a huge issue. He ignores people who speak to him, he yells and back talks.

Sounds like our kids are very similar. I am glad to hear as time went on she is getting slightly better!

^This!

We were very lucky in that for family health history reasons we started our son on healthy foods to begin with, or we would be having an even harder time of it than we are. We started him on whole grains and he loves fruits. He hated his rice cereal so he was more than happy to eat those foods at the time. After he hit three or maybe a little earlier he stopped eating meats and veggies, but we have made the slow climb on meats and are working on veggies. (Veggies are really hard for us) It takes work, unfortunately. He does have white flour grains, but it is only with pastas (which we are trying to get him to tolerate the texture of), pizza and fast food ventures away from home.

Luckily (kind of) he hates to leave home, so he would rather eat whole grains and what we serve (which is not what we eat, but is at least better than fast food) than venture out to get drive thru. We know this can change so we are trying to stop his current Pavlovian expectation that every time we go somewhere he can have fast food, for that reason. I wish we had not gotten him into that habit, because it is hard to break and now he limits what he will eat if he knows we are going somewhere so he will conveniently be hungry while we are out and about.

For the ignoring people (as long as it isn't family or teacher)-I see that as a part of AS-at least for my daughter. It is due to social anxiety and therefore I do not punish her for that. I feel that is out of her control (my daughter has SERIOUS social anxiety issues).

For the yelling and talking back-those are punishible offenses-she would lose her iPad for the rest of the day and for the entire next day. (Her iPad is her #1 prized possesion).