NT wife wanting to learn aspergese....
I posted this in the love and dating section yesterday and somebody suggested I post it here. I may be talking about my husband not son (although his son is definitely AS as well) but since communication issues are, I would assume, universal, I thought I'd take the advice. Hope that's ok?
So, here goes:
In response to a previous topic I posted someone said the following:
For some reason, NTs statements use to be very 'flexible'. They're full of excuses, small lies, exagerations, inaccuracies, self-deceptions, manipulative distorsions, half-truths, emotional statements, and so. The outcome is when a NT listens to something, he/she filters and reconstructs it trying to recreate the most likely reality behind those words, according to the NT's experience.
This was interesting as it closely echoes somethngn my husband often says to me as our very different ways of using language can cause serous problems. He can translate a lot of the time but we are going through a pretty bad patch at the moment and says he needs me to do more of the translation.
So, any advice any of you can give as to how I might bring my use of language (and my listening skills, come to that) closer to his, would be much appreciated.
I have this issue with my Non- AS wife. I tell her that what i say and what she hears are two different things….she does hear what she wants to hear and constructs her version of what i have just said rather than what i have just said.
So i say " what colour bins have to put out this week"?
and she says " bin collection isn't until tomorrow night"
And i say " yes that would be the right answer if i asked what night is bin collection night"?
and then she gets annoyed with me.
Don't infer, interpret or misinterpret the question, don't add or construct your " spin" to the question just answer the question as it is spoken and pretend you have read the dialogue rather than heard it.
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a great civilisation cannot be conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within- W. Durant
I posted this in the love and dating section yesterday and somebody suggested I post it here. I may be talking about my husband not son (although his son is definitely AS as well) but since communication issues are, I would assume, universal, I thought I'd take the advice. Hope that's ok?
So, here goes:
In response to a previous topic I posted someone said the following:
For some reason, NTs statements use to be very 'flexible'. They're full of excuses, small lies, exagerations, inaccuracies, self-deceptions, manipulative distorsions, half-truths, emotional statements, and so. The outcome is when a NT listens to something, he/she filters and reconstructs it trying to recreate the most likely reality behind those words, according to the NT's experience.
This was interesting as it closely echoes somethngn my husband often says to me as our very different ways of using language can cause serous problems. He can translate a lot of the time but we are going through a pretty bad patch at the moment and says he needs me to do more of the translation.
So, any advice any of you can give as to how I might bring my use of language (and my listening skills, come to that) closer to his, would be much appreciated.
I have this issue with my Non- AS wife. I tell her that what i say and what she hears are two different things….she does hear what she wants to hear and constructs her version of what i have just said rather than what i have just said.
So i say " what colour bins have to put out this week"?
and she says " bin collection isn't until tomorrow night"
And i say " yes that would be the right answer if i asked what night is bin collection night"?
and then she gets annoyed with me.
Don't infer, interpret or misinterpret the question, don't add or construct your " spin" to the question just answer the question as it is spoken and pretend you have read the dialogue rather than heard it.
Hi Donkey,
That pretty much describes the conversations he and I have! Someone has just pointed me to Women are from Venus and men are from Mars which I have in fact just read - it's flawed in that its perception of gender is resolutely binary but what it says about male/female language can be extrapolated to AS/NT. I think it will help me down the line, maybe it would help your wife?
I think it is really hard for NTs to do this. Their filter works automatically and they can't stop it. I think it takes as much thought for them not to read into things as it does for aspies to try to find the nuance. I think when we can predict this will happen it does not hurt to add something like "I am only asking x. I am not asking y." when possible, as a prompt to remind them to take the statement literally.
Like in the garbage bin example, If I knew in advance what was likely to be inferred, I would say, "I know we don't need to put the bins out, yet, but what colors need to be put out this week?"
Like in the garbage bin example, If I knew in advance what was likely to be inferred, I would say, "I know we don't need to put the bins out, yet, but what colors need to be put out this week?"
I don't get it thought. What was inferred? How would one know what was likely to be inferred? This is what happens between me and my wife as well a lot. It is frustrating as hell.
Sometimes when you know someone for awhile you can predict what misunderstandings are going to happen, just because they happen over and over again, there is a pattern, and it is predictable after awhile. This only works for me for things that have happened (more than once) or things that are very close to things that are a pattern. Sometimes I can see the patterns.
For example, my husband is a very helpful person. So if I ask him the status of something ("Have you taken out the garbage, yet?") if it is not yet done, he may do it now b/c he has inferred that my question means I would like the garbage taken out.
Knowing this, if for some reason I do not want the garbage taken out, I might phrase it like this, "Honey, if you have not taken the garbage out, please't take it out, yet, b/c I am about to make chicken and I want to throw the package out, first, so it can go out with the rest of the garbage."
If I do not do this, he might answer, "no." I might think to myself, "Good, I have time to get the chicken package in there before he takes it out." He would not know this, and he might assume I was hinting I wanted the garbage taken out, and go ahead and do it. So, it is easier if I give him any relevant information ahead of time.
In the previous case with the bins, the wife could not imagine why the husband would care about the color of bin, if it did not need to be taken out, right away. She incorrectly inferred that he must think it needs to go out that night, and so she "corrected" him. These kinds of things happen a lot in a marriage, even with NTs, I think. These inferences happen automatically and it is hard to shut them off.
A tip for the listening side, and it may sound very simplistic, but it helps me immensely with my son.
I frequently remind myself that he is not being deliberately obtuse, that he is not trying to annoy me, and for as frustrated as I feel, he probably feels even more frustrated. It helps me focus on being a patient listener instead of a judgmental one.
If he says something "wrong," I don't directly point out that it was wrong. I clarify and then proceed with the conversation. I am thinking of the "draining boards" vs "worksurface" example. I would never say to my son "but you said worksurface, not draining boards" because pointing that out would serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever, unless he specifically asked me why I cleared the worksurface. I don't ask questions when I already know the answer; I make statements. I don't ask rhetorical questions at all (except now when we are practicing) because he thinks all questions require answers.
If I say something "wrong," I do not make justifications. I simply clarify and proceed with the conversation.
If something sounds...just off...or out of character for my son, I stop and make sure I understand what he is saying, because often times he is doing the best he can to explain something but does not have the right words. His most successful teachers are the ones who do this the best. If he seems like he is being rude, they slow down to understand what he really means, because he is not a rude kid by nature.
And a tip that I can give you from myself: Sometimes I ask an inordinate number of questions. It sounds like I am questioning the authority of the other person, or their intentions, or their goodwill, or their "whatever." Usually, my question is simply a question. I am trying to understand what the person is talking about and my questions have little to nothing to do with the person I am asking them to. People very often think I am questioning them instead of questioning the topic. Often, I have not even thought of them yet, although when they become what seems to me to be overly defensive, suddenly I do start to question them because I wonder why they are getting so upset over a few questions. What helps is that I have learned to say "I am not questioning you at all. I am only trying to make sure I fully understand the information. Please bear with me."
Good luck.
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Mom to 2 exceptional atypical kids
Long BAP lineage
I frequently remind myself that he is not being deliberately obtuse, that he is not trying to annoy me, and for as frustrated as I feel, he probably feels even more frustrated. It helps me focus on being a patient listener instead of a judgmental one.
If he says something "wrong," I don't directly point out that it was wrong. I clarify and then proceed with the conversation. I am thinking of the "draining boards" vs "worksurface" example. I would never say to my son "but you said worksurface, not draining boards" because pointing that out would serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever, unless he specifically asked me why I cleared the worksurface. I don't ask questions when I already know the answer; I make statements. I don't ask rhetorical questions at all (except now when we are practicing) because he thinks all questions require answers.
If I say something "wrong," I do not make justifications. I simply clarify and proceed with the conversation.
If something sounds...just off...or out of character for my son, I stop and make sure I understand what he is saying, because often times he is doing the best he can to explain something but does not have the right words. His most successful teachers are the ones who do this the best. If he seems like he is being rude, they slow down to understand what he really means, because he is not a rude kid by nature.
And a tip that I can give you from myself: Sometimes I ask an inordinate number of questions. It sounds like I am questioning the authority of the other person, or their intentions, or their goodwill, or their "whatever." Usually, my question is simply a question. I am trying to understand what the person is talking about and my questions have little to nothing to do with the person I am asking them to. People very often think I am questioning them instead of questioning the topic. Often, I have not even thought of them yet, although when they become what seems to me to be overly defensive, suddenly I do start to question them because I wonder why they are getting so upset over a few questions. What helps is that I have learned to say "I am not questioning you at all. I am only trying to make sure I fully understand the information. Please bear with me."
Good luck.
You're in good company because I ask an inordinate number of questions as well. Your purpose for asking them is my purpose as well. I'm simply trying to make sure I understand where they're coming from. If they say something to me or give me directions that make no sense to me I am the type to question as well. This annoys my wife immensely. She'll say that I am interrogating her. My mother interrogates as well. So, I get that from her.
Have you ever run into an issue in which you ask someone an inordinate amount of questions, thought you had all of the facts, along the way you realize you didn't and have to ask more questions? I have looked up CAPD as well and based upon the symptoms and certain incidents in my life I believe I may have a severe case of it. I believe this CAPD is a partial cause of my misunderstanding of things.
In the English language some words sound alike. Have you ever misunderstood what someone said because a letter got transposed from your ears to your brain. For example, I remember in 4th grade I remember I forgot to get my lunch ticket for the week and I asked my 4th grade teacher if I could get it. He said "no" but I thought he said "go." I went to go get it assuming he gave me permission and when I got back he asked me why I left the classroom and where I went. I told him "I was getting my ticket." He said "I told you not to." I said to him that he said I could get my ticket. We got into a mini-argument over this. He finally got a bit impatient and just told me to take my seat and I did. I did not get into trouble for this and the matter was dropped and never brought up again. Has stuff like this happened to you when you went to school and your adult life as well.
Cubedemon, I have never noticed that you ask a lot of questions ! Insofar as this bothers your wife, I have found that sometimes I simply need to stop myself unless it is a matter of high importance. It bothers my boss, too. So now we have come to an agreement. If I feel like I can't do my job without asking questions, I ask them and she answers them without getting annoyed or rushing me. If I am just curious or want to further my understanding, I drop it if she does not want to answer a bunch of questions. I think this is all related to the way I learn new information. I can do two things: create a new "neural construct" for a new concept, or reconfigure an existing "neural construct" to fit the new information. The first option requires a great deal of learning as it really is as though I am working from a blank slate. I usually do this through independent study, at least until the framework of the construct has been created. Lots of reading and research. The second still takes a great deal of time because I have to test various aspects of the new concept to see how it is similar to, and different from, the concept I already "own." That allows me to lay the new information over the skeleton of the existing information to create a new "neural construct."
I actually have a diagnosis (I guess) of CAPD. My husband said I was losing my hearing, and insisted I go to an audiologist. I went and had very extensive hearing tests. He said that my hearing was actually better than would be expected for someone my age and as soon as he said that, my brain kinda started going yada yada yada because all I wanted to do was shut my husband up. But I do remember him telling me that my difficulties were related to the way my brain processes sounds. I do not recall him saying CAPD specifically, but I do remember him saying "central" and "processing," so I don't know what else it could be. For me, I have a hard time hearing in noisy environments. And sometimes speech is garbled. Like Charlie Brown's teacher or listening to a radio that is cutting in and out. I do not think I have ever confused similar sounds or misunderstood "sound alike" words like you do, but my understanding is that CAPD can effect different people differently.
These things may be of interest to the OP because while I am not autistic, I do share a number of traits, and I have always found hearing adult autists explaining their perceptions and realities to be beneficial to me as I try to understand where my children are coming from.
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Mom to 2 exceptional atypical kids
Long BAP lineage
One thing to remember in addition to all the advice so far - Aspies tend to be true or false thinkers.
I've noticed (with friends, family, and romantic partners) that I am often accused of not making enough "overtures" as in, I don't reach out enough to "secure the connection" or "reinforce the bond", etc. And that NTs find this "lack of effort" to be a sign that the friendship/connection is weakening. And they become upset about it. And either start drawing away, or pushing away... distancing themselves. Possibly to protect against the pain of loss they "sense" is coming.
I, once a bond or connection is established, consider that bond to be fixed until further, explicit, notice.
I'm talking from my own perspective here, and maybe I'm wrong to generalize, but...
True or False thinking... Yes or No...
To an Aspie, a bond is a yes or no thing, without much in the way of degrees. So approach every conversation with your husband knowing that you are his Wife. Without any degree or shading.
It is an established fact in his head that you are his Wife, and all the things that that title/role means to him.
It also means that he is your Husband, and all the things that that title means to him.
I've seen this sort of thing described as a male problem too. In a lot of couple's research, for example there is a common finding that men show more relationship satisfaction than their partners. The common explanation is that many men may be operating more on this "set it and forget it" principle. Their partners, on the other hand are frequently checking in with the relationship and have more of a nuanced and up-to-date understanding of how things are going.
I think the fact that there is an overlap here is important; as an NT wife, you may be tempted to see a lack of continued courtship as dumb-man behavior and not ASD. Indeed both may be occurring. The important thing to remember is that if you need something more than what is being given (in terms of affection, dating, etc.) you may need to ask for it explicitly.
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