Camp complains son's behaviour was "sexually inappropri

Page 2 of 3 [ 48 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

EmileMulder
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 14 Dec 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 293

01 Jul 2014, 9:19 am

momsparky wrote:

you do need to look at his behavior from the other point of view: it probably doesn't matter to the girl what his reason is, if she doesn't want her hair to be touched, it shouldn't be touched

This is an important point moving forward because there will be other situations where touching other people in ways that they perceive to be inappropriate can have more severe consequences. In a sense, you're lucky that this is happening at this age, in this low-stakes context, because it gives you a chance to work on setting appropriate boundaries (regarding personal space) for him before he gets to an age where something like this can get him into real trouble.

WelcomeToHolland
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Jan 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 583

01 Jul 2014, 9:39 am

Thanks for your replies.

I talked to the mother when I picked up my son because she was there. Based on her accent, I guess she's Jamaican, not African. She was a lot more understanding than the camp was- she has an autistic son at the camp too and seemed to understand what I meant about the beads so I don't think she was the one driving the camp's reaction.
But either way, I agree 110% that her daughter has the right to not have her hair touched. Autistic or not, there are some behaviours that must be stopped, and violating other people's personal space for whatever reason, is one of them.

It's Canada day so I get a day to think about this before he goes back. I don't think he has the cognitive ability to understand that he can't touch her hair and even if he did, he wouldn't have the impulse-control. He has several negative behaviours that we have been telling him to stop since forever but he still does them (bolting and eating non-edible things). I think this us similar and while I have talked to him about it, I don't expect it'll make any difference. They need to supervise and prevent it. I hate to take the responsibility off of him since it's his behaviour, but I just don't think it's going to happen if they're expecting him to regulate on his own. His language skills are poor (both expressive and receptive , we think anyway). He mostly communicates via PECS. I am going to make a social story too because he likes those.

It's not a Christian or religious camp. Maybe the director is though. I was surprised by that word too. My friend recommended this camp to me but maybe it goes better if you send your autistic child with an NT sibling to fend for them... My friend sent her son with his NT sister, who is incredibly bossy, so I can totally see her regulating his behaviour better than the aide :lol: .

Edit: I forgot to add, the aide is provided by the camp, not me.

Tawaki
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,439
Location: occupied 313

01 Jul 2014, 10:29 am

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:

"Heathenish." "Sexual harassment?" Really? It does not sound like they have a good handle on autism. I agree that it is inappropriate behavior, but I think that the aide is the one who is primarily at fault for this happening repeatedly. I agree with your idea of sending him with a string of beads. Hopefully that and keeping the 2 kids separate will fix the problem.

It is considered sexual harassment because it was an unwanted physical contact, at least at the school I work at. Just be grateful the girl's parents don't want your son gone.

I want to know where the hell was his aide that your son could do this more than once?

At my school...

Hugs, tickles, tackles, holding down someone on the ground, and wrestling, stroking a limb or head can be sexual harassment if it is reoccurring. We say, "no hugging, no tugging, no pulling, no touching!", when the kids get grabby while playing

Also it is not up to YOU to decide if the action is sexual harassment. It is the person who the action the occurred to decide. You have no clue what might have happened in that girl's life, and maybe SHE has issues with her head and hair being touched. Ask anyone who has had foster kids. The most benign touch/action can set off a whole lot of trauma.

Anyway, this one is the aide's fault, and really hammer home the idea "hands to yourself" with your son.

League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,280
Location: Pacific Northwest

01 Jul 2014, 10:53 am

HisMom wrote:

First of all, I did not know that 12-yr-olds could be "sexual" and indulge in "heathen" behaviour.

Any age indulges in sexual behavior. A toddler can grab their penis when they discover it gets hard, even an infant can grab at their penis because they discover that body part. When I was a year and a half I started to masturbate, when I was ten I started to finger myself when I discovered white stuff coming out of there, I also played with my pubic hair in six grade and played with my boobs. All normal stuff rather it's meant to be sexual or not. It's all normal behavior. I remember masturbating because it always gave me this excited feeling inside. I was a small child then. Sex is human nature. I have even heard of two small children touching each other wrong and I always wonder if that is natural behavior or were either of them sexually abused or how else would they know it so well. I didn't even do that at that young age because I knew nothing about it. It was just a story my ex boyfriend told what his five year old cousin and him did and she lead him through it and it was a disturbing story. Instead of two adults, it was two five year olds and I said "was she sexually abused or what?"

But hair touching? I am so glad I never got in trouble for touching anyone's hair except being told to stop or there is a consequence. Back in my childhood, kids were just removed from the situation or sat out from the group if they were being inappropriate. That has been my experience in special ed and in mainstream. I remember being sent home in 6th grade though after sitting on a wet bench and making a joke about wetting my pants and needing diapers. I guess that was considered sexual since I have read online some people like to wet their pants and it's a fetish and so are diapers. I remember doing diaper jokes in high school whenever we had a lock down and kids would complain about needing to use the bathroom. But no consequence and a teacher said she will bring in the Depends joining in on my humor.

_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.

League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,280
Location: Pacific Northwest

01 Jul 2014, 10:55 am

CWA wrote:

This is sexual discrimination. If he were a girl he would have just been asked to stop repeatedly. Since hes a boy it becomes something else, but solely in the minds of the people working there. I doubt he was thinking much of anything other than "hair... beads... nice...." Or whatever these kids think about when in sensory mode. You would THINK with it being a camp of mixed ability that they would have gotten this by now because honestly... you really think this is the first time a boy got fascinated by a girls hair there?

Wow, no wonder I didn't get in trouble then. I wonder what would have happened if I were a boy.

_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.

Dadenstein
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

Joined: 6 Mar 2014
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Posts: 61

01 Jul 2014, 11:08 am

momsparky wrote:

I'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate here. Keep in mind that I do agree that the camp's reaction was inappropriate and should be addressed: if they are a camp specializing in mixed-needs kids, they need to be better prepared to handle situations of this nature.

First of all, from what I understand from my African-American girlfriends, touching hair is a very serious affront. It can have implications far beyond the intent of the person doing so, because in this country we have a history of treating African-American women as non-persons who don't have the right to bodily autonomy. It may be that the girl or the girl's family applied the sexual label to the incident because the girl or her family took it that way - and its important to remember harassment gets defined by the recipient. (if the tables were turned, wouldn't you want your son to be able to define the behavior that upset him?)

Second, it's not beyond reason to correlate hair touching with a sexual advance - it's a gesture that is rarely made between males and females outside of that context. The book "A Five Is Against The Law," a book I recommend you purchase and go over with your son, mentions hair touching explicitly; it's written for kids that are more towards the classic side of the spectrum (although I got it for my son, who's in the AS range.)

Now, all of that said, I understand completely that this was an innocent gesture by your son, who was interested in this girl's hair completely outside the context of the situation - but you do need to look at his behavior from the other point of view: it probably doesn't matter to the girl what his reason is, if she doesn't want her hair to be touched, it shouldn't be touched, and the camp is probably not prepared to police this type of behavior, which speaks a lot to their expectations of special needs kids maybe being too high.

I'd ask for a meeting with the camp director and explain what was causing your son's behavior (sparkly beads,) your side of the situation, your concerns that the aide was not being attentive enough to stop this behavior, and ask them if they have experience with kids with classic autism. Let them know that you chose this camp because you expected them to be able to redirect your son's hyperfocus when it lands on something inappropriate, and you're concerned about the way this was handled and framed. A behavior like this should not happen "repeatedly," as you would expect the camp to do something about it the moment it became a problem. You should also say that since the camp framed this as a sexual issue, you're now concerned about your son being bullied by other kids, and you'd like to know what their plan is to manage that.

I agree with mom here about the touching of hair in relation to afam community...I was sort of hoping that wasn't coming into play...

YippySkippy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,986

01 Jul 2014, 11:11 am

So....the camp director called your son a heathen? Do the other parents of special needs children at that camp know that the director views their children that way? I think they should know what kind of person is running that show.

CWA
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Age: 46
Gender: Female
Posts: 669

01 Jul 2014, 11:45 am

League_Girl wrote:

CWA wrote:

Wow, no wonder I didn't get in trouble then. I wonder what would have happened if I were a boy.

No kidding. My daughter does stuff like this too. She likes to touch really long straight hair because it's smooth and shirts that are made of silk or any velour type material. We went to a birthday party in the winter where she would not stop rubbing the hostesses (adult employee of the princess palace the party was held at) shirt anywhere she could no matter what I said to her. That was a rough party.

ASDMommyASDKid
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,666

01 Jul 2014, 11:57 am

Tawaki wrote:

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:

Are you directing this at me? I am not the original poster. I am just saying I understand her predicament. I am well aware of how schools treat this stuff. A camp that welcomes SPED children (especially one that knows enough to assign the child an aide) should be more aware of a better way of how to handle this. I am not saying the girl is not entitled to her personal space. Of course she is. What I am saying is they should not be treating the OP's child as some kind of sexual deviant b/c he was attracted by beads.

HisMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,271

01 Jul 2014, 1:12 pm

WelcomeToHolland wrote:

It's Canada day so I get a day to think about this before he goes back. I don't think he has the cognitive ability to understand that he can't touch her hair and even if he did, he wouldn't have the impulse-control. He has several negative behaviours that we have been telling him to stop since forever but he still does them (bolting and eating non-edible things). I think this us similar and while I have talked to him about it, I don't expect it'll make any difference. They need to supervise and prevent it. I hate to take the responsibility off of him since it's his behaviour, but I just don't think it's going to happen if they're expecting him to regulate on his own. His language skills are poor (both expressive and receptive , we think anyway). He mostly communicates via PECS. I am going to make a social story too because he likes those.

It's not a Christian or religious camp. Maybe the director is though. I was surprised by that word too. My friend recommended this camp to me but maybe it goes better if you send your autistic child with an NT sibling to fend for them... My friend sent her son with his NT sister, who is incredibly bossy, so I can totally see her regulating his behaviour better than the aide :lol:

.

Edit: I forgot to add, the aide is provided by the camp, not me.

She (that director) doth protest too much. She is covering up the fact that her inefficient employee was not doing HER job by shifting the entire blame on a child who has neither the social awareness to understand that what he was doing was inappropriate nor the language to explain himself if he was asked for any explanation of his behaviour. Aren't these the reasons WHY he has an aide, in the first place ?

I stick by what I said in my post above.

Write them a note of explanation (not an apology but a simple note of explanation) of what you think happened. In that same note, point out that the camp is a secular camp and that it is for children of mixed abilities. Also note that the camp had provided an aide whose SOLE JOB was to help him navigate the camp and to supervise him at all times, so that these mishaps would not occur.

Ask what actions the aide took after the first time he touched the girl's hair and what actions were taken when it was deemed that it was difficult to redirect him from the behaviour ? Put THEM on the defensive and make them furnish a written explanation back to you. Finally, object to the use of the word "heathen" and ask if the camp is a religious camp (this should do the Director in) ? CC Director's boss in the letter.

Until they respond and the response is satisfactory to me, and they provided him with another aide (you know, one who would actually do her job), I wouldn't be sending my boy back there.

I do think that it was a good idea to talk to the girl's mother (and to apologize to her and her daughter on your son's behalf) but I wouldn't apologize to that nutjob running the camp.

_________________
O villain, villain, smiling, damnèd villain!
My tables—meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain.
At least I'm sure it may be so in "Denmark".

-- Hamlet, 1.5.113-116

Last edited by HisMom on 01 Jul 2014, 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WelcomeToHolland
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Jan 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 583

01 Jul 2014, 1:51 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

Not exactly. She said she couldn't have children behaving like heathens at her camp. It is a slight difference. Also I think she was using the term kind of like how people say "that's so gay"- not meaning what it actually means- in this case meaning "being sexually inappropriate" as she worded it. Not that that makes it okay, but I didn't feel religiously threatened (we are atheists so it could have been intended that way, but I don't think so).

I'm not the type of person who makes a fuss, so realistically I'm just looking to get through the week with nobody hurt in any way and then not send him back there again.

It is comforting to know that other people like to touch hair and it's not just my son. Thanks for that.

HisMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,271

01 Jul 2014, 2:08 pm

WelcomeToHolland wrote:

YippySkippy wrote:

Sometimes, though, you *have* to make a fuss, Holland. Regardless of how you took it, saying "behaving like a heathen" is still unacceptable. I would think "that is so gay" is just as bad as "that is so ret*d". But maybe it is just me.

Even if you ignore her ill-chosen words, the fact still remains that the aide did not do her job and that your son is being blamed for something that may not have become a problem had he been successfully redirected the first time he indulged in it.

I am not trying to stir trouble, but I have a problem with how the camp handled this. I really would not apologize to them. Since they messed up, they get themselves hurt. This is a situation where that aide needs to face the repercussions of not doing her job and the Director deserves the flak because she compounded her employee's inefficiency with her own stupidity.

JMHO.

momsparky
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,772

01 Jul 2014, 2:43 pm

I'd agree that if the parent of the child wasn't upset, then there is definitely an issue with the camp that needs to be addressed. I know you don't want to make a fuss - can you send an email to the camp director? If not, you might want to write a letter.

You could pull your son from the camp - and you might still want to pull your son from the camp - but I urge you on behalf of the next kid who gets this treatment to put something in writing that the camp can't ignore. Explain your son's behavior in terms of his disability and that you expected the camp to have the staff and expertise to handle this situation. Let them know that you take exception to the way the behavior was framed, and that, because of the way the incident was spoken about (and use the EXACT words that were said to you, in quotes) you are worried your child will be singled out for bullying either by staff or by other students.

You should make them aware that you do take the issue seriously, but it is THEIR responsibility to ensure the safety and well-being of participants in their camp, not yours.

Seriously, would this person have accused a blind person of "behaving like a heathen" for bumping into someone?

ASDMommyASDKid
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,666

01 Jul 2014, 3:05 pm

"Behaving like heathens" is still an odd turn of phrase. Do people who are not religiously judgmental types even use it? I agree with Momsparky about it being really odd to use for someone this person knows is disabled.

I don't have any advice b/c I don't know what I would do. I do want you to know I think they were way out of line.

HisMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,271

01 Jul 2014, 4:20 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:

Odd turn of phrase indeed. I actually spent the last 30 minutes of my time racking my brain for any evidence that this could be used in any context other than religious, and I drew a blank. That tells me that the Director - at the very least - has at least one intolerant bone in her body. There is no rhyme or reason why a religious nut cannot get a job running a secular camp. Maybe she is a covert missionary, who knows ?

My "qualifications" for drawing the conclusion that she is an intolerant POW ? Well, I no longer subscribe to any organized religion, although I do believe that a Higher Power had a hand in creating the Universe (aside from pressure inside an atom, of course). BUT I was raised by religious right-wingers. AND, weirdly enough, even though we were not Catholic (we were not even any denomination of Christianity), I got sent to a Catholic school run by nuns. Two and half decades of life with my parents and the nuns mean that I can spot a fanatic when I run into one.

THIS ONE IS A FANATIC. And such types usually aren't tolerant of differences - including differences in ability. That alone explains the "heathen" comment. Now, Holland is cool and not religiously offended, but I am. I am sure these types would consider me an atheist and maybe take it out on my kids because who knows when / if one of these whack jobs would either teach in my son's classroom or lead one of my daughter's camps !

The heathen comment needs to be addressed. If this were me, I would write a polite letter (preferably vetted & edited by someone who isn't as pissed off I am) and in that letter bring up that comment, presumably seeking an explanation and pretending that MAYBE I misunderstood the fact that camp was secular when it was really not ? I would cc that hag's boss on it and sit back and wait for the fireworks. She (the director) REALLY screwed up using that phrase - she probably should be at a parochial camp somewhere leading Bible study, not running a secular camp where GOD FORBID there are actually kids with special needs !

I better stop now as my blood pressure is starting to climb, but if it were me, she dun messed up now. And I am like a dog with a bone with things like "religion".

Last edited by HisMom on 01 Jul 2014, 5:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

YippySkippy
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 44
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,986

01 Jul 2014, 4:39 pm

A quote I recently mentioned in another thread seems to apply here.
"I'm sorry you're stupid."
That's the only apology that camp deserves. :lol:

Page 2 of 3 [ 48 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Jump to:

Camp complains son's behaviour was "sexually inappropri Post Reply New Topic

Camp complains son's behaviour was "sexually inappropri