I feel like I've become conditioned

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I think this one really depends on the person asking. I would assume that, if you're present while a person is preparing to go out, you have a pretty close relationship. In that case, I think it's fine to say that you don't like certain articles of clothing. Just don't say you dislike everything, and leave them feeling they've nothing decent to wear.

Yes - this was where I found myself during the "screw the cool kids" phase although I never liked to lie, either and have always been really bad at it. The way I deal with that is this: I don't lie, but I am also under no obligation to tell the whole truth, or even part of the truth. Therefore, my answer to "how do I look" if I don't like a person's looks, is to say something truthful like "That hairstyle looks great on you, " or "I really like that shirt," or if I'm really stuck "you have such a unique sense of style." All true, all socially acceptable.

Here's where you need to take in some social information from the NTs that is a valid thing: they are not always using words to express themselves, and you have to look beyond the words to find the question they are ACTUALLY asking. Some of the prior responses show how to do this: to check whether the question is actually a request for validation.

(so, "Do I look OK" might actually translate to "Is there anything about my looks that will make this situation worse for me, e.g. a thread on my coat or toilet paper attached to my shoe, etc." or it might translate to "Do people react to me negatively solely based on my looks?" which sometimes means a response of "you're fine" and sometimes might mean you tactfully need to say something like "you know, if you are unsure about it, they have a great makeover place in the mall" or "I know you like cologne, but people's noses are just so much more sensitive these days, maybe you should skip that")

It is an NT characteristic to expect you to look beyond their words to find out the question they are asking. Doing that is not "social conditioning," it's learning to communicate with someone different from you, just as you would do if you were learning a foreign language or a new computer language. It is very hard to do if you are on the spectrum, but like any language, with practice, you get better at it.

This does not mean your way of being to the point, literal, and completely truthful is wrong - and you can explain to NTs close to you how you would prefer them to talk this way to you. Communication is a two-way street; you are right that we are a minority and thus the burden is placed on us both to learn the majority language and to advocate for ourselves to get what we need - but we do have a right to ask for support.

Don't be like my parents and frame this as the right/wrong way to communicate; communication is a surprisingly flexible thing. As I said before, there are real and serious consequences to that, just as there would be if you moved to a country where no one spoke English and you refused to learn.

Often true, but not always. Not all people have the same taste, and if someone bought something to wear, they probably like it, and may want to wear it regardless of the other person's opinion. Sharing an opinion even when close to someone is not always the best option.

Some people are more receptive to that kind of thing than others, so YMMV, like for most things.

These areas are incredibly difficult to learn because there is so much nuance involved that doesn't appear to be logical or consistent. Even NTs can struggle with it at times, so it is good for everyone to try to have a little patience and try to sort out the intent before reacting.

My general rule is that you can be truthful when it is productive ("let me straighten your bow" or "have you tried your gold necklace with that outfit? It might give it just the right touch") but bite your tongue when it is not ("too bad you have such an unfortunate nose on your face" or, when there is only one dress to choose from, "that dress doesn't fit you well.")

I congratulate you on keeping the negative thought to yourself and caring enough to sort out what that means to who you are. I agree with MomSparky's input that this isn't so much about conditioning as simply learning how to communicate effectively and interact positively with people to maximize benefit for all. Few of us want to ever hurt other people, and knowing how to suppress some truthful thoughts is very much a part of avoiding hurting people. On that, MomSparky gave good advice, too; failing to say something isn't lying if the withhold is done for positive reasons.

I love this way of describing the journey.

In the end, everyone has something positive to contribute, and nothing is right or wrong all the time in all situations. Life and people are very fluid, which admittedly is highly challenging for those with ASD, but also is necessary for ideas, concepts and people to thrive and evolve. If you can look at the chaos as a messy way of eventually getting to something good, it becomes easier to tolerate. Everything has it's time and place, and that includes NT v. ASD ways of viewing the world.

^^^^^

My rule of thumb is, basically, as follows: Unless something TRULY IMPORTANT (like life, limb, health, a relationship, or a really big door) is at stake, say the flattering thing.

To my cousin, wearing a dress that looks like a fitted gauze lampshade, stops about two inches below her labia, and doesn't leave much of what it covers to the imagination: "You're a vision of loveliness, dear. No, it doesn't look slu*ty at all. It flatters your legs well."

To my husband, who carries 305 pounds, and most of it in the belly, and who just bought a brand-new $75 small-plaid button-down shirt: "It's delightful! You look very professional! You know I love you in that shade of red!!" If he doesn't remember all the comments and jokes we've both made about small-plaid making our 350-pound friend look like a picnic blanket, well, too late to remind him now.

To my NT BFF, who paid $600 (a whole month's pay) to have some friends of her mother's paint her entire house electric turquoise with high-gloss bright-white trim?? "It's LOVELY!! It just absolutely screams 'YOU'. It's a bright spot on a dingy street. Looks like springtime!! That super-gloss oil-based enamel will really wash well, too. It will look good for years to come!"

Why?? Do I WANT him to humiliate himself?? Do I secretly smirk about the fact that an entire small town jokes about the Easter Egg my friend lives in?? No-- but it really doesn't matter. Everyone is too polite to say anything to their face. Everyone makes nasty judgmental comments about everyone else behind their back-- it's something I have learned to do too, no matter how distasteful I find it, because people think you're plotting something or something if you don't do it.

Now, if Hubby asks me if he's fat and ugly, I'll answer: "You're not ugly. You have a beautiful smile, and nice eyes, and a great ass (fill in other compliments here). Yes, you are fat. But I don't care, except that I'm afraid I'm going to lose you." Because-- it does matter. He's carrying 100 extra pounds, mostly in the belly, and it's going to give him diabetes, arteriosclerosis, and a heart attack. It's a wonder he's not diabetic already.

I think this idea that everybody gossips and that people are going to get humiliated anyway is sad. And goes too far. You don't have to say something looks great when it doesn't. When you are circumspect, you at least give people a chance to rethink it on their own, and wonder why you were less enthusiastic; in that process they may make a better choice.

The golden rule really is to treat others as you would like to be treated. I don't want to be lied to, but I also don't want my feelings hurt over something I no longer do anything about.

So the turquoise house? I would probably say, "that was a bold choice, and I know how happy that color makes you." The plaid shirt, if it hasn't been worn yet, "I'm curious why you picked a small plaid, given some of the comments you've made about others in the past." My family has commented on some of my clothing purchases, before I take the tags off, with a simple, "it isn't my favorite." Then I decide if *I* love it enough not to care what others think, or if eventually realizing that people don't love it on me will bother me.

Weight issues are really tricky, but my husband has done well. His talk centers on having the whole family eat healthy and stay active, even though he and my kids are naturally thin. That keeps it from ever being personal. It's about all of us and our health, not how we look.

And if people are gossiping behinds people's backs all the time, I usually try to turn the conversation: "it wouldn't have been my choice, but it makes her happy, and we should all live our lives in the ways that suit us best without worrying about other people's taste. By the way, how is XXXXX going?"

Thread derailer alert:

Ha ha! I LOOOOVE people who paint their houses outrageous colours.

My aunt did that. Whenever I met people from her town I used to say "I bet you know where my aunt lives" They'd say why would I? and I'd say "the blue house". And they'd know exactly which house. (Of course that made resale after her divorce quite awkward.)

There's someone on my street who done it - with green - it's obviously the husband behind it because the wife is quite embarassed, but I really like it.

Maybe not enough to do it myself, but I'm glad there are people who do that.

As YippySkippy has pointed out if you have really good friends and you're getting ready with them they want your honest input, but it still needs to be within the context of supportiveness.

I'm glad I hang with rugby girls now though - it's largely free of all this stuff. Someone might tell me I look slu*ty before a night out and then wink and wish me good luck.

I find the golden rule rarely works for me because my thoughts do not tend to align well with those of others. People who think like most other people don't have to exercise their Theory of Mind skills as much as those who don't. That tends to work to aspies' disadvantage b/c it is common for aspies to have issues in both departments. Our thoughts tend not to conform, in addition to having ToM issues.

I think the turquoise house sounds awesome. I used to live in Ireland, and they have the most beautiful house colors there. Purple with yellow trim, coral with blue trim, you name it. And it almost always looks fabulous, especially with some window boxes full of flowers.

I think this applies on a more visceral level: you don't want to be hurt, humiliated, or angered. I agree that ToM and different ways of thinking make it harder to figure out how you get there, but the principle is the same. Thus, learning communication skills that help you compensate for those differences.

I think it is difficult for everyone to judge when or how to give criticism. "Do I look fat?" is a notorious question that irritates men, presumably of the NT variety. It's difficult because it depends on a variety of things, including the type of person it is, what your relationship with them is, and the situation, and you have judge all three things correctly, all before even figuring out how to word it!

I think your overall goal should be to bring them up, rather than down. If you have a suggestion for an outfit or something, you don't tell them to make them feel bad about their own choice, you tell them to make them feel good knowing someone else agrees with you that it looks good. With someone who is overweight, it's probably better to go with concern for their health, rather than how they look- as telling them they're fat isn't going to be "news" to them, so the only possible change will be them feeling worse. In that case, your best bet is, as someone already said, encourage healthy lifestyle choices for the whole family.

I run into this too-- I think it's why the "polite lie" thing trips most of us on the spectrum up. When I ask, it's because I don't trust my own assessment of the situation, and I want to know. If the outfit makes me look like a muffin sitting on top of a bubble, I want to KNOW. If the colors don't work, I want to KNOW. If the furniture arrangement is stupid, I want to KNOW. If dinner bit the big one, I want to KNOW (and also how, and why, and if something can be done to improve the dish or if I should just never ever make it ever ever again).

Which is why I've made the rule I have. Unless it MATTERS, just validate the choice. Because the relationship, and the feelings of the person, matter more than the outfit, or the paint job, or whatever (although people really should look at my 5-year-old sneakers, my yoga pants, my muffin top, and my 15-year-old T-shirt and figure that asking my advice on fashion is an exercise in futility).

Hey, he likes the shirt. *mental note not to make any more picnic blanket cracks, even though it reassures him to hear me crack on the guy*

Hey, she feels like a soap opera star in the dress. *shrug* I bet her husband enjoys it too...

Hey, she likes the house. All she wants is validation for an unconventional choice. It IS a bright spot on a dingy street (three out of the six surrounding houses are abandoned and one is in serious disrepair). It harms no one if I smile and shake my head when I pull up. And it is very, very HER.

I think this is about knowing when to give those honest remarks. My husband...well, he has no filter and no awareness of context. I am a really good cook. He will say that. It is true. But he will also find fault with dishes I've made while we're at the table eating. Sometimes it's un-varnished opinions about what hasn't gone quite right in an experiment (in comparison to my very high standards) and I know that actually he's trying to point out areas for improvement in a hack-handed way of being helpful. Usually I let it slide off me (he does far worse things). Sometimes, if I'm having a bad day, it feels like exactly the wrong thing. I still sting about a Thanskgiving dinner I gave many years ago (I'm American but live in the UK) where I made some rolls that I'd made before and which are amazing (Parker House rolls, joy of cooking) but I couldn't use my usual pan and some of the rolls in the centre were slightly underdone. He criticised them in front of guests saying they weren't as good as they normally are. I can still remember seeing the shocked expressions of my guests. In his mind (I can only guess) he knew they weren't as good as they normally were and he was trying to excuse them and tell them that I was capably of doing better. Thing is, they were still good. They just weren't amazing. So to them, it looked like an attack. Not only did the criticism hurt a little because I was trying my best making a huge meal on my own, but I was profoundly embarrassed that I had this husband who would make me look bad in front of guests.

My MIL who I also suspect is on the spectrum - and who I admire in many ways because she has overcome profound difficulties in her life - is even worse for providing 'helpful', 'truthful' criticisms. My sister-in-law once was asked at the very last minute to translate part of her cousin's wedding to English as part of the wedding ceremony. She stood up in the packed church and translated what the officiant said as he was saying it for all of the English speaking guests (who were many). She has worked as a translator but only written stuff. Simultaneous translation is a different skill and she's never done that for work. My MIL criticised her performance at the reception saying she was too fast or not poetic enough or whatever. There is no doubt in my mind that this was a less than optimal performance, but that this wasn't my SIL's fault. She should have been asked to translate the written material of the ceremony and read out what she'd done at the right point - allowing her hone the language to something suitably poetic in advance. But that wasn't what happened and I'm sure my SIL did an excellent job under the circumstances. But even if she hadn't what was the point of making her feel like she'd ruined the wedding? I'm quite sure no one else was thinking "Wow, that girl ruined the wedding." because she didn't - not even close. Weeks later my SIL was still hurting from this criticism because obviously she didn't want to feel that she'd a) ruined her cousin's wedding or b) had looked like a fool or c) didn't have the support of a family member.

Even my constructive criticism of what happened (they should have given her the material in advance) is not something I would have shared with anyone in the wedding party because they'll never be able to use that advice and it would only make them feel bad. And frankly it's a minor point anyway.

LOL, DS really has a hard time with this one, too - as does his grandfather (somehow this particular deficit managed to skip a generation.) Some of it is that he knows I love to cook and take kind of a problem-solving approach to it, and he can't differentiate between when I verbally mull over how to improve something and him generally expressing his unsolicited opinion.

For him, it's a combo of ToM (he has no idea of the effect his words will have) and a need to put the thoughts in his head out there, to reduce the internal "clutter." I imagine it's a bit painful for him to have "too much rosemary" knocking around in there during the whole meal.

We practice polite refusals (thank you, but it's just not my taste) all the time, but it's really difficult for DS not to say specifically what bothers him about something; I imagine it's like being stuck with a pin to him. Still looking for a good work-around.