Am I Wrong in Being Irritated?

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You know your experience and it's good that you are able to see that the way you were raised was not good for you.

What you are doing in generalizing the blame you feel your parents deserve to others on the spectrum is profoundly wrong, though. You say you understand that "it is a spectrum" but you don't understand at all. I expect that you are speaking out of ignorance and it's likely you are a basically decent person who wouldn't share such nasty thoughts if you understood the full impact of what you are saying.

You are young and probably haven't given much thought to the related issues. You say your dad is not diagnosed, but you are just sure that he is autistic... Does he know that? How is a person who does not know they are autistic meant to voluntarily remove their genes from the human race by choosing not to reproduce?

Not really an option, is it? So your final solution to this problem would do nothing to prevent your own existence, which is your apparent goal.


But surely, all diagnosed people should refrain from having children because they run the risk of being bad parents, you argue. But this is based on ignorance at every level. You don't know what the risks are of a person on the spectrum being a bad parent, or what the risks are of a person not on the spectrum being a bad parent. You don't know the developmental causes of autism or the varieties of outcomes across cognitive and emotional domains that make up the spectrum. All you know is your own bad experience--which you strongly suspect but cannot be certain is related to your father's possible autism. In the face of this almost total lack of information, you hold forth with deeply hurtful, deeply offensive ideas. This doesn't make you a bad person, but it does reveal that you are ignorant and have poor decision-making skills.

I would like to see you try explain to my children why they shouldn't have been born and why you "just know" that my genes make me a bad dad who can't connect. If you are as sensitive as you claim, you wouldn't be able to do it.

I've been on this forum to see how seriously many of our many members take the fact that, yes, not only is there a "risk" due to potential parenting limitations, but there is also risk in passing the condition on and creating a much lower functioning child.

But, as ASDMommy pointed out, whose job is it to weigh the risks? Yours or theirs?

Every potential parent brings risk to the table.
- Did they grow up in an abusive household, and are they sure they have learned how to create different patterns that will break the cycle?
- Do they have a genetic disease or condition that might get passed on?
- Are they going to be able to stay financially stable enough to give the child a sense of not just general security, but also food security (a huge percentage of the population experiences food insecurity; should only the well off reproduce?).
- Do they have a disability that might make parenting difficult? I am hearing impaired and can't hear my kids when my hearing aids are out, as they are when I sleep. My friend's mother grew up with only one arm, limiting her ability to safely hold her children.
- Are they at risk for alcoholism? I'd take an ASD parent over an alcoholic, any day.

You can't eliminate the risks in life, but everyone should, most certainly, weigh them.

Surely, there are people who refuse to think it through and are among the ones who should not become parents, but how do you reach those people to even start conversation? There are so many examples of people who never properly weighed a thing, and will never focus beyond their own rights and their own desires. That is hardly limited to a fragment of the ASD population.

When someone comes on this board wondering if they should have children, they have, in my opinion, taken the first step towards being a decent parent: they are asking questions, recognizing their own limitations, and trying to put the potential future child first. I am a lot more worried about those who don't try to think it through than those who do.

I do wish your parents had sought more outside input so they could have been better parents for you. I won't say they shouldn't have become parents, however, because then you wouldn't exist, and I would never suggest that you should not exist.

As I said before, you have a journey to go on. That is not uncommon for someone your age, with or without ASD parents. I had a lot to reconcile with my father when I was in my twenties, but that bridge is long crossed for me. I hope it will be someday for you, too.

I want to suggest, again, that you leave this thread and go into the Raised by an Asperger's Parent thread. A lot of your questions have already been answered there, and that thread is long running enough for most members of this forum to know if they should or should not be reading and commenting in it. I want this forum to help you resolve your concerns, not end up in fights that will just upset both you and the ASD membership.

Unfortunately, the title to this thread doesn't give enough indication of the topic for the people who know they won't be able to respond constructively to know to stay out. Your points are capable of really pushing someone's buttons, and it is not productive for ANYONE - you or them - when that happens.

I just bumped the thread to make it easier to find.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 18 Feb 2015, 7:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Yes, this thread is kind of an extension of the Mommy Wars.

Here's how I read the original post:
"Hello strangers. I'm new here, and I'd like to tell everyone with ASD that you shouldn't have children. If you have children already, then you're a lousy parent. Have a nice day."

Seriously, WTF? Only on the interwebs.

As I've read this thread, I've been thinking about Hitler's final solution, and reading the words here, I have to say this.....without intending to do anything wrong, And I don't think anyone here is going that direction, but efforts to restrict the rights of a group of people, and there are numerous examples of this, as Adamantium says, it's profoundly wrong, no matter how good the intentions.

I didn't read that. I read a lot of pain. I read desperation. I read a kid who is trying to come to terms with the fact that he didn't have a "good" childhood and trying to figure out what to make of that. Honestly, I wasn't offended by the original post, because it is clearly made from a place of ignorance (I don't mean ignorance in the pejorative way, I mean it in lacking knowledge of the truth kind of way). We all have been ignorant at one point in our life. I thank my lucky stars that when I was ignorant, I was pointed in the direction of a group of benevolent adults on the spectrum who patiently and carefully answered questions that were probably offensive at times, not because I wanted to be offensive, but because I didn't know any better. Yet.

I wasn't offended until later on. And not by anything the OP has said.

He needs support and guidance so he can heal through this. Forgiving the transgressions of my childhood was very hard for me, but it was probably one of the most important things I have done. I, for one, can find patience for someone, as long as they are willing to listen with an open mind and stretch past the confines of their own experience.

I'm referring to this:



I think announcing this, in a parents forum on an ASD support site is something beyond mere ignorance.

I think that assuming everyone who happens to be ASD is bound to repeat the same mistakes his or her parents did is an assumption coming from lack of knowledge and, hence, ignorance.

Or anger that needs to be worked through.

If for some reason the poster was trying to bait the membership, it certainly wouldn't be productive to chomp on it.

So ...

By the way, just my kids quickly adapted to "I can't hear you without my hearing aids in" or "please speak louder I didn't catch that," kids can also adapt to, "I can't understand what you need if you don't try to tell me specifically," or "I don't understand what you are trying to tell me, is it X?" In our full-on quirky family, we've come to understand that communication and understanding may take more than a quick conversation and, as a result, we've all learned to invest in that process. And knowing that we are all quirky in our own ways, we try very hard to respect that when anyone says they need something, that it means they have a need, even if it is something we can't relate to at all. My kids know they are listened to and cared for, even if they have plenty of stories to tell about growing up in our quirky family.

I suspect your parents are hindered more from never having known what caused their own issues, than the issues themselves. I suspect I would see a lot of defensive patterns in your descriptions of them, if we got into the nitty gritty (every child feels their parents embarrassed them; your very first paragraph in the original post sounds so ... normal). I've written and deleted so many sentences here trying to succinctly explain all the connections leading to these two sentences, but I really can't. Just note this concept isn't something I've written lightly - or in defense of myself, my child, or my family. It is sincerely based on my observations from having been on this board many, many years.

I read pain. Usually when people ask if they are a bad person, it is because they think they are a bad person and they want someone to tell them that they are not. The fact that he (potentially) thinks he is a bad person for feeling this way tells me he is ignorant and looking for answers.

I'm not saying you are wrong, Yippy. I'm just saying I am reading it differently. Time will tell, I suppose.

To the original poster: I understand you are grappling with a lot right now. Many of us have been where you are. But it doesn't have to stay like this. Finding forgiveness and learning to be at peace with things that you cannot change is hard work, but it is noble and worthwhile. I suppose to some extent finding out that some people with ASD find a way to be a good parent when yours didn't probably stings even more. But as it has already been brought up, if your dad does have ASD and he doesn't know, he is at a severe disadvantage. You can't know you need to compensate for a problem that you don't know you have. And there is the possibility that he has felt broken his whole life and just doesn't know why.

Whether you hang out here and try to learn or not is up to you. But if you choose not to, I would suggest finding someone to talk to. You've got some heavy things on your mind. There's no need to face that alone.

I read it it to be a combination of things. There is pain but that pain is causing both a desire for validation and a desire to lash out. He even recognizes that there is something odd (confrontational?) about his desire to seek validation here. (if you look at the first post)

I have noticed as that other thread went on that there were many who looked to confront some proxy of their parents. That somehow by doing so it would be a substitute for the conversation with their parents they cannot have or at least will not be listened to. It never made any of them whole, as this is a doomed strategy aside from being vaguely trollish in the sense of picking a fight with people on the Internet.

I obviously disagree with you. There are tons of parents (presumably mostly NT, given the population distribution) that can't relate to kids that are not mini-mes ---have different politics, interests etc. And looking at your specific examples, I have to say I do not know many NTs who enjoy talking about opportunity costs. Economics is called the dismal science because most, again --based on population distributions) NTs find econ to be very dull. (I don't find it to be and I am AS by the way)


Not everyone enjoys ballet or other dance, and you don't have to be AS to fall into that category, either. Most parents are going to say that drinking and partying is inversely-related to success so as to motivate studying etc. These in and of themselves are not unusual from typical child-parent relations.

I am not saying this to minimize whatever your issues with your parents are, but to indicate that you are not communicating well.

Perhaps you are not aware that AS is a spectrum that reaches into the NT population as well. One can be BAP (Broader Autistic Phenotype) and not diagnosable but have aspects of it. How much AS is too much to reproduce? Why would you think this is your decision to make? Do you go around judging other people with other conditions and personal situations as well? Do you see how "holier than thou" this comes off? Do poor people get to reproduce? How about people with medical conditions with probably shortened lifespans? People with poor diets or messy homes? Do you have to be a perfect parent? Is there even such a thing?


You did not yet answer (or I missed it) whether you dad is diagnosed or not?

Edited to add: AS does not mean one cannot connect with ones child. I have a very close connection to my autistic child, as does my husband who is aspie-light. I don't think me being NT would improve our connections one iota. Aspies are often good at problem solving, and that can be a useful skill.

My dad was surely undiagnosed aspie and my mom is NT with OCD and anxiety. My dad, despite his issues, was much easier to deal with than my mom. At least I felt like someone understood me and did not drive me crazy about things I did not care about. Theory of Mind issues can run NT to AS as well as NT to NT and AS to NT or AS to AS.

AS kids often feel just as misunderstood by their parents as you feel your parents did not understand you. If you read other parts of this forum, you will see the heartbreak many kids with AS felt from their parents trying to make them NT. It would be just as wrong to say all NTs are bad parents from these stories.

The people on this parent board --both AS and NT are here because we want to help our kids and connect better with them. We are not some rare unicorns.

We're common, run-of-the-mill unicorns.

LOL

OK, I apologize if I offend anyone here, I understand how it sounds like to someone in some context, actually, I do understand in terms of the logic, or at least based on the lit behind it, but
1.) As some of you have mentioned before, I have only seen black swans, I don't know what a white swan look like as a parent and how, presumably, the white swans struggle underneath and manage to look more at ease than myself in my situation;
2.) Yes, a huge part of it is down to the fact that my parents don't realize their own problems, even though rather sadly, myself and most of my other family members talk about that around them (it's a different ball game for those who realize that, re: point 1.);
3.) I ranted here because I didn't pay full attention to fine details for this forum when I was posting, because I was hammered drunk and pissed off, because of issues, mostly that I have desperate need for my fixation and overcompensation of the perceived "lost years";
4.) Yes, I know I am young for most of you, but my "young age" is all of my life from my perspective,
5.) Since I have problems, and my problems are not quite the same as my parents, I am trapped in dwelling/trying to pinpointing in how we are different, i.e. how they don't see social cues, how they aren't able to put things into language, etc etc.
6.) Which leads to my own problems, namely poor adjustment, a lot of anxiety, and a bit histrionic; I am extroverted and I looked for approval since before I can remember, which was given conditionally by my other relatives when I do things right, but me being in the center of attention is mostly unappreciated, and worse yet appreciation given inconsistently, by my parents, who simply can't comprehend me, and no, they literally can't comprehend some things I spent most of my childhood trying to pinpoint and explain to them (re: pt 1 again), imagine a 10 year old trying to explain that my parents' accent sound odd when they ask me "how so?"
& 7.) And yes, I have a lot of other problems which might qualify me less to most of you for being parents, but hey I wanted to wine because I was 12 drinks in alone in a new city in the afternoon, I just came out of college where I was a star and now I have nothing,
Thank you for all the input, and yes, my problems are probably exemplified because my parents has something combined with being ASD, but sorry because this is the easier bit to point out, and also, a huge part of it is because of incompatibility between us, but there is no "incompatibility help forum",

PS, I actually think that poor, druggies, etc are even less qualify for parenting, please send me to the gallows for that
PS 2, it is the T4 scheme, not the final solution, and no I am not into fascism, eugenics, radicalism, racism, please don't send me to the gallows for that

This right here, is your key issue and ironically, a situation that a lot of young Aspies find themselves in after college: Not the parenting part, but the rest of it.

I am not saying you should not look at your past, but based on this part of your post, I think the important thing for you to do is to focus on where you want to be and how to get there. If you think that there are foundational skills you lack, then work on acquiring them. The fact that you are drunk-posting is not a good thing, but I am sure you know that.

Perseverating on who you think should make babies and who shouldn't, really won't help you. Even if you think your parents are to blame for soft-skill issues, perseverating on that also does not help. Once you identify the issues, you need to work on problem-solving mode to help yourself, and if you also need therapy (like others suggested) to put these other things to rest, then do that.

(And yes, I think saying poor people have no right to make babies is pretty awful, but no, not gallows worthy--given that in addition to me being hippy-dippy (<------sarcasm alert) pro-poor people, I am also anti-capital punishment. )

Edited for syntax