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American
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17 Sep 2015, 10:03 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Don't lose hope. It sounds like you're losing hope.

People evolve. Aspies evolve.

Aspies tend to [r]each "social milestones" at a later age.


I agree, which is why getting married at age 22 is a bad idea for almost everyone with an ASD (and arguably even most NT people), especially one in the position that the OP's son is in. My suggestion to the OP is to have a frank conversation with her son. Don't tell him what to do, but ask him questions. For example, ask him what harm there would be in waiting another year or two to get married, or at least until he finds a career. Ask him whether getting married and having children is a good idea without the means to obtain a place to live, much less pay for said children. I'm a few years older than the OP's son but would never consider getting married until I am working full time in a decent paying and stable job. Admittedly though, once I get my mind stuck on doing something, it is hard to dissuade me. Sometimes people have to make a bad decision against the advice of everyone who cares about them to learn to listen to advice.



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17 Sep 2015, 10:16 am

What if you tried using money as a carrot rather than a stick? Instead of telling him you won't help financially with the wedding, what if you told him you will contribute if he does X,Y,Z? If he agrees, then at least you can get him (and maybe the fiancée) to talk to some professionals before the big day. In addition to therapy, I'd send them to a financial advisor to make a budget. Then maybe they'll see how far up sh*t creek they're about to be.



Bkdad82
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17 Sep 2015, 10:16 am

heartandhome wrote:
My 22 year old son recently went to a psychologist to get evaluated for Aspergers. The results haven't come back yet, but I am confident he will be diagnosed. We should get them in the next couple of weeks.

I am very concerned for him and his future and I hope the psychologists can get him on track. He graduated from college last year and has been lost ever since. His entire life has been about school, and he doesn't know how to function without it. He originally planned on going to seminary (where I thought he would get a Ph.D. and end up teaching) but changed his mind at the last minute. Now he has a history/classical studies degree and no job. He still lives at home with us.

He got engaged this spring after having his one and only girlfriend for a year. He wants to get married in January. She has no further education beyond a homeschool high school, and works part time at Starbucks. My husband and I own a small business and he worked for us part time but quit so he could find a "real" job. I told him it wasn't smart to quit a job without having another job, but he wouldn't listen. Now he is burning through what savings he has, and is no closer to finding a job. He hasn't even had a single interview. He has no real job skills or anything significant to put on a resume. He won't listen to us about maybe putting off the wedding until he has a job.

We told him we would not be contributing money towards the wedding at this time, because we cannot be supportive of him getting married so quickly with no means of supporting himself. We told him if he wanted to do it, that was his deal, and he would have to figure it out, and he wouldn't be moving his wife in with us. Since then, he doesn't bring her around, she won't talk to us, etc. It's all a big mess. Not sure if there is any advice here, or if I just needed to vent. With the diagnosis looming, I am worried about him breaking down this fall as reality starts to set in, as the job market here is pretty dismal. I think he thinks he has plenty of time. But I feel like not only does he need to land a job, he needs to have kept it a few months before getting married. With him never having worked outside the home before, and his anxiety/depression/social issues, I am worried he won't even be able to keep a job.

Thanks for "listening."

You sound like a great parent but overbearing. Let him dip his toes in the water and make his own mistakes. Be happy that he is getting married. Smile more teach less. Take a step back. Let them know you will be there for both of them when they need it. Develop a relationship with his fiancé. When he realizes how poor his choices are (history is an intellectual hobby not a career for most people) he will try harder. If he doesn't you at least can welcome his family to your home and help them. It can be better to be happy with family married and poor than to be alone with a great career.



heartandhome
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17 Sep 2015, 1:39 pm

Bkdad82 wrote:
heartandhome wrote:
My 22 year old son recently went to a psychologist to get evaluated for Aspergers. The results haven't come back yet, but I am confident he will be diagnosed. We should get them in the next couple of weeks.

I am very concerned for him and his future and I hope the psychologists can get him on track. He graduated from college last year and has been lost ever since. His entire life has been about school, and he doesn't know how to function without it. He originally planned on going to seminary (where I thought he would get a Ph.D. and end up teaching) but changed his mind at the last minute. Now he has a history/classical studies degree and no job. He still lives at home with us.

He got engaged this spring after having his one and only girlfriend for a year. He wants to get married in January. She has no further education beyond a homeschool high school, and works part time at Starbucks. My husband and I own a small business and he worked for us part time but quit so he could find a "real" job. I told him it wasn't smart to quit a job without having another job, but he wouldn't listen. Now he is burning through what savings he has, and is no closer to finding a job. He hasn't even had a single interview. He has no real job skills or anything significant to put on a resume. He won't listen to us about maybe putting off the wedding until he has a job.

We told him we would not be contributing money towards the wedding at this time, because we cannot be supportive of him getting married so quickly with no means of supporting himself. We told him if he wanted to do it, that was his deal, and he would have to figure it out, and he wouldn't be moving his wife in with us. Since then, he doesn't bring her around, she won't talk to us, etc. It's all a big mess. Not sure if there is any advice here, or if I just needed to vent. With the diagnosis looming, I am worried about him breaking down this fall as reality starts to set in, as the job market here is pretty dismal. I think he thinks he has plenty of time. But I feel like not only does he need to land a job, he needs to have kept it a few months before getting married. With him never having worked outside the home before, and his anxiety/depression/social issues, I am worried he won't even be able to keep a job.

Thanks for "listening."

You sound like a great parent but overbearing. Let him dip his toes in the water and make his own mistakes. Be happy that he is getting married. Smile more teach less. Take a step back. Let them know you will be there for both of them when they need it. Develop a relationship with his fiancé. When he realizes how poor his choices are (history is an intellectual hobby not a career for most people) he will try harder. If he doesn't you at least can welcome his family to your home and help them. It can be better to be happy with family married and poor than to be alone with a great career.


Unfortunately we live in a very small house and do not have the room or finances to support him, a wife and kids. I cannot do that. He will have to go live with his grandparents or her parents or something. I have backed off and have not been giving unsolicited advice, telling him what to do or not to do, or anything like that. In the next month, if he still has no job, I think my husband and will sit down with him and ask him questions like the commenter above. I don't see the harm in waiting until he has an income before getting married. I wish I could be happy he wants to get married, I really do. I just see him doing this for all the wrong reasons. And I see it having almost zero chance of survival if he goes through with it right now. And yes, again, I know I can't stop him. I just hope we can get him some therapy and help, etc before this happens. We are paying quite a bit for this diagnosis and evaluation, and told him we would pay for therapy as well. Personally, I think that is more helpful than helping to pay for a wedding at this point. Thanks again -



American
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17 Sep 2015, 3:33 pm

heartandhome wrote:
Unfortunately we live in a very small house and do not have the room or finances to support him, a wife and kids. I cannot do that. He will have to go live with his grandparents or her parents or something. I have backed off and have not been giving unsolicited advice, telling him what to do or not to do, or anything like that. In the next month, if he still has no job, I think my husband and will sit down with him and ask him questions like the commenter above. I don't see the harm in waiting until he has an income before getting married. I wish I could be happy he wants to get married, I really do. I just see him doing this for all the wrong reasons. And I see it having almost zero chance of survival if he goes through with it right now. And yes, again, I know I can't stop him. I just hope we can get him some therapy and help, etc before this happens. We are paying quite a bit for this diagnosis and evaluation, and told him we would pay for therapy as well. Personally, I think that is more helpful than helping to pay for a wedding at this point. Thanks again -


That is a good plan. If he agrees that getting married and having children is not something one should do without a plan, then you may get through to him. Even just asking him what his plan is could be helpful. The advantage of using questions rather than statements is that, with questions, he must come up with his own conclusion. He is more likely to accept and act upon a conclusion that he reaches than a conclusion that you tell him. You may just change his mind without any "unsolicited advice." :) Good luck and let us know how it works out.



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17 Sep 2015, 6:39 pm

Two things: one, if your son is diagnosed with AS, you should try to help him find a career counselor that works with people with disabilities. Hopefully the diagnostician will be able to make a referral.

Second, it might be a good idea to help your son figure out what careers he can go into with his degree (and his college should be helping, too) Many historians become researchers, which is an incredibly appropriate job for an Aspie as well. He may need your help in connecting the dots.

One of the things we sometimes say on this forum is that it can help to think of kids on the spectrum as being 1/3 less than their current biological age. In his case, if you frame his behavior as that of a 15-year-old, it would tend to make more sense, right?

Of course, that is not a broadly applicable rule - for instance, I sometimes think Aspies can be better than their NT peers at relationships - once they get in a successful one. My husband and I are both at the very least BAP (I have recently been diagnosed with autistic features at a sub-clinical level) and we have a significantly better marriage than many people we know - especially the people everybody thinks have a good marriage (when you are married long enough, you see many of those marriages fall apart.) Your son may be on the right track with this girl, just not with the realities of financially supporting a family.



heartandhome
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17 Sep 2015, 6:44 pm

momsparky wrote:
Two things: one, if your son is diagnosed with AS, you should try to help him find a career counselor that works with people with disabilities. Hopefully the diagnostician will be able to make a referral.

Second, it might be a good idea to help your son figure out what careers he can go into with his degree (and his college should be helping, too) Many historians become researchers, which is an incredibly appropriate job for an Aspie as well. He may need your help in connecting the dots.

One of the things we sometimes say on this forum is that it can help to think of kids on the spectrum as being 1/3 less than their current biological age. In his case, if you frame his behavior as that of a 15-year-old, it would tend to make more sense, right?

Of course, that is not a broadly applicable rule - for instance, I sometimes think Aspies can be better than their NT peers at relationships - once they get in a successful one. My husband and I are both at the very least BAP (I have recently been diagnosed with autistic features at a sub-clinical level) and we have a significantly better marriage than many people we know - especially the people everybody thinks have a good marriage (when you are married long enough, you see many of those marriages fall apart.) Your son may be on the right track with this girl, just not with the realities of financially supporting a family.


That makes a lot of sense about the age thing. I was telling my husband when he is with her he acts like a lovesick teenager! Even posting things like "Happy x "Monthaversary" on his FB page to her, which seemed extremely immature to me. Another reason getting married seems so off base to me.

I have been hoping that if/when we get the diagnosis soon that the clinicians can give us referrals for career counseling or do some things themselves. I know they do help with "transition to adulthood" type things there.



American
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17 Sep 2015, 7:40 pm

Based on my personal experience as a young adult with an ASD, I agree with momsparky's age observation insofar as what I will call "emotional maturity" is concerned. I think that the opposite is true with regards to intellectual maturity, which is why I always had a much easier time interacting with middle age adults than with my same age peers. This is why I think that getting married at age 22 is a huge mistake for most people with an ASD. Help your son use his intellectual maturity to compensate for his lack of emotional maturity as much as possible, mainly by recognizing his limits.



Last edited by American on 17 Sep 2015, 7:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

heartandhome
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17 Sep 2015, 7:43 pm

American wrote:
Based on my personal experience as a young adult with ASD, I agree with momsparky's age observation insofar as what I will call "emotional maturity" is concerned. I think that the opposite is true with regards to intellectual maturity, which is why I always had a much easier time interacting with middle age adults than with my same age peers. This is why I think getting married at age 22 is a huge mistake for someone with an ASD. Help your son use his intellectual maturity to compensate for his lack of emotional maturity as much as possible, mainly by recognizing his limits.


Another great point. He always has been able to interact better on an intellectual level with people much older than him. As part of this testing, he will get an IQ result as well. I am sure it is pretty high. He unfortunately has never been able to use that intellect to its full potential. Hopefully therapy will help with that as well.



American
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17 Sep 2015, 8:01 pm

heartandhome wrote:
American wrote:
Based on my personal experience as a young adult with ASD, I agree with momsparky's age observation insofar as what I will call "emotional maturity" is concerned. I think that the opposite is true with regards to intellectual maturity, which is why I always had a much easier time interacting with middle age adults than with my same age peers. This is why I think getting married at age 22 is a huge mistake for someone with an ASD. Help your son use his intellectual maturity to compensate for his lack of emotional maturity as much as possible, mainly by recognizing his limits.


Another great point. He always has been able to interact better on an intellectual level with people much older than him. As part of this testing, he will get an IQ result as well. I am sure it is pretty high. He unfortunately has never been able to use that intellect to its full potential. Hopefully therapy will help with that as well.


Based on my experience, a proper diagnosis and professionally prescribed therapy should be a great help. Assuming that he has an ASD and considering that he was never diagnosed before, he has done reasonably well in life so far. IMO, graduating from college is a big achievement for someone with an ASD, especially when that person never received a diagnosis, therapy, or special education (without those things throughout my childhood, I don't know if I could have successfully attended college). So hang in there and hope for the best. He is lucky to have a caring mother like you. :)



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18 Sep 2015, 9:27 am

YippySkippy wrote:
What if you tried using money as a carrot rather than a stick? Instead of telling him you won't help financially with the wedding, what if you told him you will contribute if he does X,Y,Z? If he agrees, then at least you can get him (and maybe the fiancée) to talk to some professionals before the big day. In addition to therapy, I'd send them to a financial advisor to make a budget. Then maybe they'll see how far up sh*t creek they're about to be.


Convincing the son and fiancée to consult professionals prior to their marriage in order to get their financial ducks in a row is an excellent idea but bribing them to do so is a terrible idea. Immature as the son may be, he is a legally competent adult the de facto bribery establishes a very unhealthy and codependent dynamic.

Heartandhome - Have you considered encouraging your son and his fiancée to consult a clergyperson at their house of worship? Or, better still, to sign up for a pre-wedding marriage counseling class at their house of worship? The religious official is likely to ask them about finances, how they intend to parent, etc. and as a devout person, your son may be more inclined to heed concerns from a religious leader than his parents.

FWIW, my best friend is Catholic, her priest required her and her fiancé (and all worshippers) to complete a 10 week marriage education class in order to be married in her Church. Her priest had extra "homework" for couples who'd been together for less than 2 years or more than 5 years.



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18 Sep 2015, 9:28 am

I just hope your son is not getting married to the "idea" of marriage, rather than to the lady.



heartandhome
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18 Sep 2015, 9:40 am

MissyEE3 wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
What if you tried using money as a carrot rather than a stick? Instead of telling him you won't help financially with the wedding, what if you told him you will contribute if he does X,Y,Z? If he agrees, then at least you can get him (and maybe the fiancée) to talk to some professionals before the big day. In addition to therapy, I'd send them to a financial advisor to make a budget. Then maybe they'll see how far up sh*t creek they're about to be.


Convincing the son and fiancée to consult professionals prior to their marriage in order to get their financial ducks in a row is an excellent idea but bribing them to do so is a terrible idea. Immature as the son may be, he is a legally competent adult the de facto bribery establishes a very unhealthy and codependent dynamic.

Heartandhome - Have you considered encouraging your son and his fiancée to consult a clergyperson at their house of worship? Or, better still, to sign up for a pre-wedding marriage counseling class at their house of worship? The religious official is likely to ask them about finances, how they intend to parent, etc. and as a devout person, your son may be more inclined to heed concerns from a religious leader than his parents.

FWIW, my best friend is Catholic, her priest required her and her fiancé (and all worshippers) to complete a 10 week marriage education class in order to be married in her Church. Her priest had extra "homework" for couples who'd been together for less than 2 years or more than 5 years.


Yes, they have been going to some sort of premarital counseling at the church. I don't know what is being discussed there. I am assuming finances, etc will be a part of it. I may contact the pastor myself soon and ask for a counseling session to talk about my concerns.



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18 Sep 2015, 9:45 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I just hope your son is not getting married to the "idea" of marriage, rather than to the lady.


My worries exactly. She doesn't seem to be someone I would have thought he would end up with. Zero further education, rather dingy and silly and immature (she is only 20). I think she is enamored with his intelligence and his interest in her. He is enamored with her interest in him, as he has never had anyone show interest in him before. She came from a rigid religious family, and is extremely naive. So she is very "teachable" and "moldable" to my son, who seems to enjoy telling her what to do, giving her books he wants her to read, etc and having her do it. And she grew up with the whole, "woman's place is in the home" mantra, and has seen no reason to advance herself.

All of this seems very attractive and exciting to my son, who doesn't seem to have a clue about reality - the stress of paying bills, maintaining a home and raising children, etc.



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18 Sep 2015, 9:48 am

It's funny: in a sense, this might be the right girl for him. But she might not help him grow, though.

But yes, reality is a mindfield. Truthfully, you'll continue to have to be a parent to him. Truthfully, even NT adults sometimes need the wisdom of parenting (no matter how much they deny it!) Young people always screw up on finances. Young people sometime have to learn the "hard way." Your son, as a Aspie, will find the "hard way" "harder" than most, though. You'll have to practice vigilance--but not let him know about it!

You should let him know that everybody needs "parenting"--even those who are at the height of wisdom. One just cannot go it alone. It's not a concession to be able to receive good advice, even if it's from your parents.



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18 Sep 2015, 10:03 am

heartandhome wrote:
Yes, they have been going to some sort of premarital counseling at the church. I don't know what is being discussed there. I am assuming finances, etc will be a part of it. I may contact the pastor myself soon and ask for a counseling session to talk about my concerns.


I think this is a good idea, if only to talk to the pastor about how best to offer information to your son. The earlier poster was right about intellectual development - making sure the church has the ability to map out marriage in a factual, cognitive manner will be important: how much it costs to live as a couple, what expenses they are likely to face (what things are less expensive as a couple as well) and what expenses come up when you have children.

It's also difficult to judge a relationship from the outside. I hear your concerns, but I would focus on the practical issues and not on intangibles like the sort of girl she is or the sort of man he is. There is plenty of room for them to at least delay just because of those.