The Golden Commandments of I SHALLS for your ASD child

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Genuine fear is very tricky to figure out with people experiencing developmental disorders. Often the sufferers are unable to distinguish between fear and anxiety. That's where paying attention to what that fear is and why they're experiencing it matters.

I noticed with autisitc people, fear often isn't grounded in a genuine inability to do something challenging. I'll give you an example.

A number of years ago I had an autistic friend. We met in a group for autisitc people that was organised and spawned by a nurse. One of the members was asked to sort out a problem with another autisitcs members tablet. He took this tablet home and resolved the issue. When he called her back asking her to pick uo her tablet she refused. Her reason was that she didn't want to travel the extra mile by bus.

She knew how to travel by bus. She knew where he was and could easily do the extra mile but she refused. He had to send his brother to her house 10 miles away to drop the tablet off in the end. These are the types of anxiety problem I see too much of really.

If this is true then why is it becoming more and more acceptable to call some men (Bruce/Kaitlin Jenner) women?

And, why can't those who choose to carry plushies be accepted for carrying plushies?

Which is it? Can we be true to ourselves? Yes or no? If not, then why can Bruce Jenner be true to him/herself?

Let's talk about Trump. The man said some of the most outlandish things like in The Access Hollywood tapes. Yet, he went on to become president and encouraged an insurrection. Where was Trump's sense of restraint? Where is Jenner's sense of restraint?

And, what about intellectually disabled people. Do they have any sense of restraint as you define them. Well, no!

Make this make sense Nades! Why do we have to conform and contort ourselves and stress ourselves to fit a normal that these "normals" have no obligation in defining yet it seems as though others do not? How does this make any sort of logical sense to you exactly?



But, why is this? Is it because Autism is a disorder or is it because the society/societies we all live in are not accepting and or forgiving like they are with other people/groups?

You bring up the concept of "real", "objective" and "reality." I agree we must be as objective as we can but how is "real" defined and who gets to define what it is and what it even means? And, does anyone really have an understanding of what real is or our perceptions of what is real? And, does the majority of the population across the planet know and understand what is real or does the majority of the people across the planet simply because of the way we're all constructed have simply a universal perception of what real and reality is?

What does real mean exactly? Do we perceive what is actually real or does is the way our senses constructed simply provide a similar picture for everyone or the majority?

Did she say exactly why she didn't want to travel the extra mile by bus?

This is a key and important detail you left out.

Maybe she started her period and had extremely bad cramps and she was embarrassed to discuss.

Could she have started feeling sick?

And, why did she have to go on the bus to bring back the tablet right there and then. Why could've the person wait to receive it back when the group met again? Was the tablet really important to bring back that very day?

Is this consistent behavior by her or a one time thing?

The fact that she knew how to travel by bus does not mean it wasn't genuinely painful for her. There could be anything - odor, noise, shaking, lights (there is a shop I always avoid because of lights there - of course I know how to shop but every time I go to this one, I feel dizzy when walking out) while maintaining socially appropriate face expression can be a serious effort but it's required for the travel to go without further problems.

I always wear earplugs in public transport, otherwise I'm sick for the rest of the day. I don't care NTs don't do it, I have to keep myself functional. Sometimes I also wear a covid mask just to be able to grimace without attracting attention.

Consistent behaviour. She was a drama queen and everyone disowned her because it.

She refused outright to bring it back indefinitely.

The trip was an extra mile by bus out of her usual 8 mile trip to town. She just refused because the marginal inconvenience, or even possibly marginal anxiety it would have caused.

This is beside the point though considering if she did have a huge problem with the return trip, she should have obviously said beforehand. I never thought that autisitcs drifting through life avoiding anything anxiety inducing at all cost is healthy for them.

Why are you so angry for? If I see a man or woman walking down the street carrying plushies, I avoid them.

Autistics have to make some effort at least conform to norms. Autism isn't a licence to do whatever someone wants at the expense of making others awkward or uncomfortable.

I hate autistics that knowingly do that and hate is a strong word.

I'm not angry.



But, why do we have to make others comfortable though?

First, what am I owed by others? They would say nothing yet I owe them. Why? How does this make sense to you?

Second, why do other groups get a free pass yet we don't?

Let's not forget the man who said he could grab women by the p**** on the access hollywood tapes. He made a lot of ppl uncomfortable yet he became president. Another person who gets a pass.



All I have to say is wow!

I would of course follow the law. I would of course say please, thank you, yes sir, no sir, yes mam, no mam, etc. I would apologize if I was genuinely sorry. I would make eye contact and shake hands the best I could. These are things I would do.

But.....

I would never do a fake apology or have my child do a fake apology. Because by forcing a child to apologize for something he didn't do you're teaching them to be deceptive. Fake and forced apologizes are social norms that are repugnant to me. But, my child would make amends though like if he breaks something someone else owns he would be made to pay for it even if it is doing it through various chores.

Last edited by magz on 24 Oct 2022, 8:12 am, edited 3 times in total.: inappropriate PPR content removed

Ok, now I understand the bus story.
Looks like it goes too far away the other way than the OP.
I mean, there needs to be a healthy balance between caring for oneself and respecting others. Pushing only one and neglecting the other is a bad idea. For anyone - autists, other NDs, NTs - all alike. The only thing NDs need to consider is that their self-care needs may differ from NTs' - but need for balance remains.

I doubt you would avoid my RL friends who carry their plushies around - it's just a small stuffed animal sticking out of one's pocket. A tiny eccentricity, not any more disruptive than i.e. some self-made jewelry.

!	magz wrote:
	A part of discussion has been removed to avoid thread derailment. It is sometimes a tricky question how much of controversial opinions are allowed to be posted on WP but definitely any strong/controversial PPR opinions should be confined to their respective threads in PPR. Also, don't fall into the pit of "we have it worse than <some other group one has never been a part of>". It never ends well.

I'm not sure if this refers to anything I've said or not. The point is Nades said and I'm paraphrasing that we ought to conform to some social norms but other groups do not have to do so. Why don't we get that same free pass as these other groups?

I think this is a reasonable question.

Example: Blind people don't have to make eye contact yet we do even though it is painful for some of us. If blind people don't have to make eye contact then why can't we have that same exemption?

As for thread derailment. Thread derailment implies that a person said something that is irrelevant to the topic of the thread. But, the problem with that is relevancy is subjective. Who gets to decide what is relevant, how is it decided and why would that be the correct way to decide relevancy?

To me, it seems like thread derailment is more and more used as an excuse (not just on WP but other forums) for censorship and political correctness.

This is one reason out of other reasons why I've felt disenchanted and dissatisfied with WPs direction and censorship.

I don’t believe eye contact is central to how Chinese people relate to each other.

It’s really only central to “western” sorts of societies.

True

Eye contact is not a big deal even here (East Europe). If you don't make it, you come across as shy, that's all.

Here's the thing. What Nades wants is for us to conform to social standards and norms without question and without any kind of representation at all as to what these norms should be. The individual and the minority never get any representation and it is true it has always been this way but just because it's always been this way does it have to continue to be this way?

Not only that, in the USA we're always told to be ourselves and be true to ourselves but if we're all expected (as in individuals and minorities, not just those with ASD) to conform to social norms then how can anyone who doesn't fit with the majority be themselves and be true to themselves? What happens when part of who we are conflicts with these social norms that we have no vote or representation in?

What if in certain cases we have to be dishonest as in the case of white lying? What if I don't agree in certain cases that most people would use it for?

What if I don't believe in the social norm of forced and fake apologizes by children? What if I believe it is immoral to force children to be dishonest? This teaches the child to tell adults what they want to hear and the columbine killers used this to great effect before they did their shooting as part of their punishment for breaking into someone's van.

What if talking to myself helps me to think through things? Why is this not acceptable yet we can call some men women now?

These are some of the issues and questions that I have that Nades and others out there refuse to answer and address. And, you saw he dodged my questions.

If anyone told me I had to adopt the "neurotypical mindset" I would do them in and then myself. This is also a whole lot of psychology theory for someone who thinks people need to stop reading theory in college. Lay off the gas fumes.