Manipulative behavior/arguing

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I also struggle with feeling too strict and rigid. But I can't give in to L's demands. We tend to offer treats as a surprise rather than as something he asks for. If he asks for a treat most of the time we will say "no", but if he does not and we are out and about we will often stop somewhere for something special. That way he at least gets some nice extras, but he doesn't sit there are ask for it all the time (not that it really stops him some days, but at least wecan be consistant saying "no" without feeling too bad about it).

I found one thing that helped a bit was to make up a schedule of what we do each morning/evening so that L can look at it and know what he was expected to do and when he was expected to do it. It has fallen by the wayside at the moment thanks to the arrival of the new little one, but I hope to rework the schedule and get it going again. The hardest thing here is that we constantly have things come up that disturb the routine - we are just not an overly organized family to begin with...

I also really work on picking my battles with L. Some things must be done the way I want them, other things I tend to look past. For example, I expect L to speak to me in a decent tone of voice at all times - if he does not I ask him to repeat what he has said in a respectful way before I will acknowledge what he has said. On the other hand I will usually overlook non-verbal expressions of frustration (as long as they are not harmful) and will tolerate a wider range of expressive language than some (within reason of course).

It is a continuing game of give and take with L. He's not an easy kid and to be honest he really stretches my endurance at times. I am naturally a lenient and easy-going type of person, but with L I have had to learn to be far more strict and firm than ever expected to be. I still love him though, despite all his flaws - he can be the most wonderful, affectionate kid when he wants to be

i HATE brushing my teeth! It sends sensorical tensions like electricity all over my upper torso! So I understand my mid son hating showers. He just can't stand the feeling of drops tickling all over his body. It's simply short-circuiting the whole system. To take a shower for him is a "get ready to die, private"... It's a mix of giggle and crying. It's like he's turned inside out with every nerve ending outside.

Also the psychological aspect of it, I can tickle my daughter without even touching her. She hates it. But it's pure psychological. Her best friend has tended to learn how to do that on her too. It's a bit like somebody being hypnotized.

But the intricate way of tending to do things when things should not be done is a prime for my eldest and youngest. My youngest is allergic to a lot of common food, like egg, fish, all four seeds, soya proteine and corn, corn starch, etc... so we have all fridges locked.

One day when he was feeling sick, it just took a moment to find out why. He had stolen a bunch of frozen chocolate covered snacks with a bisquit bottom and eggwhite topping.... Like marsmallows.

He tasted one, after picking the darn lock. Thank you, Discovery Channel. He's 7.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the problem isn't brushing teeth, it's manipulative arguing.

Aspies argue for a number of reasons;

1. Attention Grabbing
2. Conversation and Fun
3. Because they are unhappy about something.

There's obviously more.

You need to figure out which reason.

Also... the worst thing you can do with an aspie (or any kid) in an arguement is shout. That way, you lose.

(ok these bits are about teeth but you can hopefully generalise to other arguement situations)

1. Sympathize, say you don't like brushing your teeth either but explain that it has to be done - maybe show a tooth decay picture on the internet. You need only do this once and can then refer to it... ie: remember that picture I showed you.

2. Ask him WHY - Why don't you like brushing your teeth: Is it the feeling? the taste? the wasted time? If there's a problem, you can try to find it and fix it.

3. Be a companion, brush your teeth together.

I remember when my dad used to brush my teeth for me and it hurt like hell. Same goes for when my mother used to use the nail scissors on me, except they were also extremely uncomfortable.

Sometimes, the answer may be pride. This has been one of my problems. I've been the type who has always wanted to be right. Part of it may stem from that he may be trying to prove that he is as intelligent as everyone else.

What he needs to learn is:
1. A person is not always right.
2. Even if he is truly right sometimes it is better to just let it go and move on.
3. He is not entitled to the reasoning behind everything. I've had to learn this myself. For me I am still learning and it is hard pill to swallow. He can ask for it though. He needs to know how to ask and not demandng which is what he is doing. It has to be in a very polite and humble way. Even then, he has to learn he may still not get it. Another thing is learn when the appropriate time and place to asw for the reasoning.
4. Know how to be humble and be in the submissive spirit in everything he says and does and not be prideful and not be in the rebelious spirit.

I don't have any insight on WHY he's doing it, but I do have a minor suggestion:

Make sure that, when you tell him to go "brush" his teeth, you specify that he needs to "brush" with toothpaste, both top and bottom, for a certain amount of time.

Technically, your son WAS "brushing" his teeth, he just wasn't using toothpaste. Personally, if people want me to do something, I require specifics. I obey the letter of the law, not the spirit. If he likes to "sneaky," try eliminating as much "wiggle room" as possible in your instructions.

Just a thought.

Take care.

REMINDER: the original post in this thread, and most of the discussion, is from 2007.

There is no point in advising the OP specifically since this person no longer posts here.

Which does not mean there cannot be value in the general discussion, of course.

I like was Inkatype had to say. You've had some responses to your original post that said basically people with AS can't possibly be manipulative, they're working too hard. My son is extremely manipulative, argumentative and lies every chance he gets. You're not crazy. Hah, well you might be (I am!) but not for thinking your AS kiddo is manipulative.

One thing that helped with my kiddo is a visual schedule. "Here's what your bedtime routine looks like. It starts at 8PM. 1. (photo of the toilet). 2. (photo of clothes in the dirty laundry hamper). 3. (photo of a pullup and PJs). 4. (photo of toothbrush with toothpaste on it). You get the idea. For my son I have to sit in the room, but he doesn't want me to say anything to him. So I just sit and observe and if he misses a step, or does one incorrectly I get up and point to the chart, which is 3'x4' and taped to his wall. His reward at the end is that I read to him one chapter of his encyclopedia. If he lies or is manipulative ever during the day he starts losing privileges. The first thing to go is always his reading at the end of the day. The next thing I take away is the privilege to pick the TV show we watch. Again, you have to have consequences that are significant for your child. Control is a huge deal for my child, so taking away his ability to control which TV show we watch is big for him.

If I were you, I'd also tell him a consequence for not doing it correctly is that he loses the privilege of having his door closed.

Lastly, I know you think it isn't a sensory issue - but you might want to try buying a cheap-o mechanical toothbrush (one where the brush rotates or vibrates) and let him put it in his mouth and see what he thinks. If he likes it, you can teach him to brush with it and then when he's good at it you can put toothpaste on it.

Good luck!

cubedemon, I'm jsut kinda curious about what made you dig this post up from the depths?