Help with extensive list of behavioral issues at school.

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okay, I can help you out with 2 issues,
1. Agression is due to puberty
2. Penmanship, I got very poor hand writing due to my Aspergers and because I take an SSRI, I also got tremors, its common amongst aspies for poor writing.

(equinn)

I was a bit taken aback by the bipolar suggestion, mostly because I simply don't see this at home. My son is much happier than my 13 yr old pubescent child (uugh she is moody, much like my teens). Anyway, lets say I am the most enabling mother in the world (I know I am not), but IF I was, wouldn't this "bipolar" child still have big mood swings at home. Since Feb. lets say, I can count on one hand the number of times he has needed to take a time out and really calm down. I should also say that I am paralyzed from the chest down and if he wanted to disobey or overpower me, he could. I can calmly control him and we (perhaps not right away) can sit and talk about ways to avoid issues next time. For example, he really wanted to be angry the other morning because dad did not wake him up early. He was starting to get worked up and all it took for me was to pull out a happy/angry picture he drew as a card I could present to hm on such an occasion. He instantly perked up and bounced back.

"I'm shocked at the language that's tossed around so casually by this teacher. She is "troubled" by your son's "paranoia" and I would add that her comments are troubling.

His paranoia I take as he does not hear them, and when they say "I told you...." he is sure they are lying. If you don't hear them, then they are lying, right, that's not paranoid (he never heard them), that's ADHD on the attention part and Asp on the right and wrong part and that makes him angry!! !! Injustice to him or others REALLY is a trigger for anger... I don't mind your advice (never), and I would love to get a consultant (never knew about this). The psychiatrist they sent me to seems to believe I am pretty logical and realistic in my perception, and I think tried to tell me he was not in agreement. My hope is since they sent us to this fellow, they trust him and if he says they are off base, perhaps he can help redirect them in the immediate future. Meanwhile I will work on getting an autism specialist. We live in Mansfield, so you may know someone??? Actually, give me all your favorites if we are close enough in proximity (still new to the state).

The one issue the psychiatrist was after me about was tangential thinking, ie does my son go from A to B to C to D, or does he lose the process after B and straying from there. I find he repeats the same sentence over ad over sometimes adding a new word on the end each time leaving the listener wanting to finish the sentence, but eventually he gets it all out. This does not happen all the time, but it has enough to notice and perhaps more a few years ago than today. Anyway, if he does have issues with this, then they do want to treat with anti-psychotics. I will not let this happen, not a good enough reason for me, any thought there?

Funny on the meds, (well our interactions with my son), but he tried once to say it was the medicine excuse a few years ago, my answer was along the lines of you can make choices... so we have always approached the meds as aids but not essential, just making things a bit easier.

And yes, the emails during the last 2 months have gotten dark and creepy and depressing, but they have awakened me to really go after my son's "issues". I miss the times when teachers have smiled thinking of something my son had done, they are a too wound up, BUT, I think they are worried, misguided , but genuine in their worries. My hope is I can redirect and here is to hoping that his change in meds will be an easy way to "modify their behaviors".

(DW)

OK, call me new to all this, but what is NT?

My son, at 9, is still innocent enough that he does not get trickery, he has not tried the I did not hear just to avoid... I always count to 3 and at 3, he hears me, if only for a brief moment, but if I need him to focus, I have to remove him or the distraction and have a conversation, maybe even write down that "this was discussed". Having him repeat back is not full proof and I know when he will later say, you did not say it. He said it, but I can tell when he is not taking it in. If I really need the response, I have to take the time to go all the way and get him to absorb my words. Funny though, as I said earlier, I am in a wheelchair, as much as he does not hear me, if I get stuck or really need his help because of my disability, boy can he rise to the occasion, its incredible. So perhaps he is chump (ing) me a bit.

How old is your daughter? My son's responses were much more explosive when he was in K-2 grade (ie, can't hang up coat on hook easily would trigger a total meltdown. This has gone away with maturity. Alternatively, my teenage daughter will burst out over nothing (puberty at its finest), so perhaps its growing pains for your daughter? However, her really being "down" is disconcerting, but again, how old is she, teenage moodiness can be a trigger, but yea, I'd visit a psychologist for a while and let her vent. (my son has none of this part, he is a free spirit at home).

However,
Your daughter at home is my son at school....It is strange but as the teachers describe my son, he is in many ways like your daughter, but as I see him, he is quite different. There are 2 different kids, the boy at home and the one at school. He sounds like he is so moody at school. This is why I have wondered about anxiety. He loves to lecture and present posters etc at school, its not that kind of anxiety, it is more covert and subtle. He does not express a lot of his feelings. Just like my daughter, ie how was your day, "good", how are you "good", you know the routine. Hard to judge his self esteem. He has no desire to tell me what he says to his psychologist (who he adores) and as we have only been going for about 5 weeks now, soon perhaps the therapist will have a sense about what makes my son tick.

I don't think my son could sit without meds. We describe his meds as not changing his personality, only really giving him the ability in interact and engage. Schooling without them seems impossible to me, but I have been wrong before. Homeschooling seems so socially limiting, what do people do to keep that side going when their kids are home schooled?

Oh, and how bad is it that he is really addicted to his gaming, Civilization, Toontown and games on his ipod touch (the DS broke). I will know in 2 weeks what he is like without all of it... we are doing the 5 days of no electronics, I am really looking forward to it. The family dynamics will really change.

This article nailed my son's writing, he is Molly. I never knew the writing issues until I watched the video from the fellow that started this site? Gave me the idea to search about the issue.

I can't post the link, as I do not have 5 posts yet, so search

Handwriting problems in children with Asperger Syndrome and you can see the article

Firstly, NT means neurotypical. Neuro=brain and typical=average, it is used to refer to somebody who does not have autism/AS.

Secondly: You wont find many people with autism/AS who dont suck horribly at hand writing. I myself can only write with pen/paper about 20-30 letters per minute, and I am lucky if they are legible enough for other people to read. That's why man invented keyboards. I could rant for several pages about how handwriting is a useless skill. Aside from filling out forms once or twice a month, I do all my written communication via keyboard. My take on the whole situation is that if your son can write out all the letters properly, and get down at least 2 sentences on paper, then he has all the skills he needs to function in life. I dont think I've hand written more then 2 sentences at a time in about a decade. Of course I have written a lot more then that with reports, papers, etc. I just used a laptop for all of those and it works perfectly fine. If your son is really struggling with handwriting, then you have to ask yourself is it worth it? I can guarantee you that you dont need to be highly skilled in the area in order to do well in life.

Thirdly: I would agree with your reluctance regarding the bi-polar label. If he is bi-polar then you should be seeing wild mood swings at home too. Since you arent its a pretty safe bet to say that this is just a reaction to feeling overwhelmed, and stressed at school. Continuously trying to do something which you struggle with will leave anybody exhausted. Just think back to your worse subject in school (I'm going to guess it was math). Imagine if you had to sit there and do math problems all day long, day after day after day. And as hard as you tried you couldnt understand the subject. Your teachers just kept telling you your doing it wrong, and that you need to try harder. So you try harder and you keep failing again and again. I think you can see how it would quickly become very stressful. And your math tutors who were just trying to help would quickly become a bothersome annoyance as they keep reminding you again and again of how often you are failing despite you trying your best.

As simple as it may be for others to keep focused, your son seems to struggle greatly with this. And his aid keeps telling him again and again that he needs to stay focused. Now she may be doing so with the best of intentions, but it constantly reminds your son time and time again of how he is failing. Its not surprising that he is stressed out by school. Also, as you know it gets harder to do something challenging the longer you keep at it. Treading water is easy when you first jump into the swimming pool, but trying to tread water for hours on end leaves you exhausted. Its the same with trying to focus and keep on task for extended periods of time. The longer you have to put effort into something, the harder it becomes. It is therefore not surprising that your son has his biggest problems in the afternoon when he is worn out from trying hard to keep focused all morning.

Fourthly: I wish to address your last comment:

Oh, and how bad is it that he is really addicted to his gaming, Civilization, Toontown and games on his ipod touch (the DS broke). I will know in 2 weeks what he is like without all of it... we are doing the 5 days of no electronics, I am really looking forward to it. The family dynamics will really change.

It is not bad at all, in fact it is a GOOD THING!! !! !! ! that your son is playing these games. For some reason that baffles me there is this false idea that playing games on the computer/console is bad for children. I really dont know where this idea comes from, but I think it is an overgeneralized dislike of certain games such as grand theft auto, combined with looking for an excuse to blame for bad behavior. In any case, please please do not fall into the trap of thinking that games are bad for him, they are most certainly not. Games provide many useful things for children. For example, lets compare playing a game such as civilization or toontown(good choices) to a more socially acceptable past time such as playing little league sports:

Accessibility:

Computer games provide instant entertainment. All you need to do is turn the computer on and there you go. Computer games can also be paused, and resumed later, allowing you more flexibility.

Sports need to be arranged in advanced at a set time and place. If you arent feeling well, or you need to do something else then you miss out on the game entirely.

Relaxation:

Your son seems to be stressed out by school, as discussed in point #3. Playing games on the computer is a great way to unwind. I know because I play games myself as a way to unwind. The consistency provided by a game is very nice after a long hard day of social interaction. If I put in certain commands, my computer will always do the same thing. That's a luxury you dont have in reality. If you want to, you can always just fool around in the game. Make bad moves, and just watch as your stuff blows up. It is fun to occasionally just mess around with a game, restart it, and go at it again.

Sports are a social event, meaning that even though the game itself may be fun, you constantly have to put effort into socializing properly with your team mates. It is most definitely not a relaxing way to unwind, at least not for me. I dont mind playing with friends (I do play D+D with other guys once per week). But it isnt something I do to relax and unwind. Also, you really cant fool around and just have fun on a sports team without your teammates getting mad at you for messing up.

Variety:

Due to the vast variety of games you can chose what you want to play for fun. You can also play multiple characters in toontown in a variety of ways to fully explore the environment. You can play civilization in a multitude of ways trying out different races and objectives.

Sports (like soccer) involve kicking a ball into a goal, running with it, or passing it to somebody else. Variety is limited.

Educational merit:

Games like civilization teach your son to plan ahead, consider various strategies, and determine what the best course of action is through a careful, and deliberate thought process. It teaches resources management, and also patience (A game of civilization can take hours to complete). More complex games like Real time strategies (RTS) also teach tasks such as multi-tasking, and making decisions quickly and calmly while under pressure. I started playing these games at age 9, you might want to look into getting your son one as a gift (there are a variety of good options here, but thats another post). Computer games constantly stimulate the mind and make you process information and act upon it.

Sports teaches you how to kick a ball.

Parent convenience:

With computer games you can just let your child be in his room and he can be entertained for hours.

Sports require you to travel all over to various games, and you dont have the option to just pass and stay at home if you dont feel like going.

Social aspect:

While playing toontown your son can meet and chat with other people in a non-threatening environment. Face to face chat is challenging for people like me, and I assume your son. You have to respond to somebody quickly (I mean if you take more then 1 second to think of a response people think something is wrong with you, its crazy). Chatting online you dont have that problem, taking a few seconds to deliver a response is considered normal. There is also no tone of voice, or other problems like that to get in the way and hinder you. It really is a great environment to get out there and be social, especially since you dont have to fear getting made fun of or bullied. If somebody is mean to you, you can always mute them (I so wish that was an option in real life). It is much easier to be outgoing and chat with others online then it is to talk with classmates. If you mess up in class, you have to deal with that person in the future. If you mess up online, you can just find one of the other 1000s of players to talk to. It encourages you to be more social.

Sports result in you getting made fun of and mocked by your peers because you cant kick the ball properly. Of course it is possible your son might be good at sports, but most poeple with AS/autism are very uncoordinated, and other children are often quick to point this out.

I dont mean to say that all sports are evil. If your son enjoys them, and your willing to take him to games then go ahead and play sports. But please understand my point that playing a computer game is just as good, and in many ways better then playing sports, yet our society by in large seems to have the wrong idea that computer games are bad for you. Ask yourself, will your son need to be able to kick a ball around in his adult life? Probably not. Will he need to know how to use a computer properly? Yes. Will playing computer games help your son learn how to think through his actions, plan ahead and stimulate his brain? Yes. Computer games really are a great way to spend your time once you have all your required activities done.

Also, think about what else you would have him do instead of computer games. Do you think watching TV, or reading a book is better? All those do is just give you information. They dont require you to think. A book might require a bit more imagination then watching TV, but it doesnt stimulate your brain or make you think nearly as much as a game of civilizations.

There are of course limits, the saying is too much of a good thing. If your son stays up all night playing games instead of sleeping, and thus struggles at school, then you have a problem. But if he gets done what needs to be done, then what possible objections could you have to playing on the computer other then incorrect social bias? I say let the kid spend 5 hours per day on the computer after school, its what I did and it saved my sanity. If I didnt have the safe environment of the computer to retreat to and play games, or talk with my online friends then I wouldnt have fared nearly as well in school. I probably would have had a nervous breakdown. If you take away your son's main method of relaxation and entertainment then I can guarantee that the problems you see now will greatly increase. Stopping your son's gaming because you fear he is becoming addicted is like blocking the pressure relief valve on your hot water heater because it keeps discharging and you want it to stop (If you didnt get the reference, that will make your hot water heater explode with the same force as about a stick of dynamite).

Fifthly: I wish to encourage you to remain calm and continue your good parenting. As I have said before, I dont know everything about your situation, but from what I can tell, you seem to be doing a good job (Or at least the best job you can). It is easy to become panicked and start grasping at possible solutions when you haven't carefully thought everything through. I dont think you are likely to do this (at least your posts seem to indicate that you are a calm, rational person), but it is worth reminding you that Rome was not built in a day. Your son will not be moving out tomorrow, and if this takes a little while to resolve, then please continue to be patient and supportive. As always the standard advice that I give is to work with your son rather then against his problems. The problems are part of who he is, and you cant attack the problems without hurting him in the process. It is much better to work together with him in a supportive manner then to jump straight to harsher penalties.

Sixthly: Please do continue to visit this message board. We may not have certificates in child psychology, but we do try to help as best we can. And often times personal experience is more just as (if not more) important then the degrees hanging in the wall of the psychologist's office. We cant solve all your problems for you, but most of us are more then willing to try and help out as much as we can. Also, we have lower co-pays then a psychologist visit.

Tracker, I just love your posts. That you take the time to contribute so much to this board even though you have no children of your own is something we really, really, REALLY appreciate.

Cladamson, I'm sitting here wondering how I failed to focus on the fact that your son has extreme problems with writing. My AS son does, as well, and that has been a huge source of emotional breakdown and what could be perceived as behavior issues. Fortunately the school caught onto to it early on and started adapting for it, and has always taken the real pain writing causes him seriously. But it's still an emotional struggle for him, and a huge source of stress. So looking at just how much push there is in this area, as Tracker points out, would be important.

A poster here at Wrong Planet helped me realize that my son's issue comes at least in part from loose joints, and that is a very physical handicap commonly cormorbid to AS. I'm not sure if that was discussed in the article you found, but there seems to be some relation there. It takes many kids years before they are really ready to keyboard effectively (hand size), so accomodations in the way of dictating and shortened work are needed during the elementary school years. My son's mind is so full of wonderful ideas, and his inability to convey them in writing is very frustrating for him. He has acquired an AlphaSmart and this year he's been really pushed on becoming a proficient typist, so much has improved there, but it's still a struggle. He is 11.

My daughter, by the way, is 8, in 3rd grade, and there has been a very intense emotional push-pull between us since birth. I felt that different dynamic instantly. Lately everything with her has been much more difficult than everything with my son, even though he is the one with the special needs, so I'm easily distracted by that. With my son I seem to be able to figure out what the triggers are and devise effective solutions; with her, it's all a mystery. Maybe I'm more AS myself than the internet test scores show (I consistently test as NT with a few AS traits, but pretty solidly NT - NT meaning nuerotypical, not being AS.)

ANYWAY, take everything you've read and see what fits. Only you know your child. Don't let any "expert" sell you on something that doesn't feel right ... ever.

And good luck. It can be difficult to figure it out but you will know when you've got it.

there are some things that you need to take into consideration about the teacher/child relationship....for the longest time, my son would come home & report about horrible things that were said to him at school. for the longest time, i believed that he was being treated horribly & disrespectfully by the teachers & aids. what i have learned over time is : 1. yes, sometimes teachers & aids suck ....2. sometimes our AS kids totally misinterpret the words that are being spoken to them- they come away from a conversation only having heard and understood part of it, but believing that they have totally understood everything.
for years my son was misunderstood. without an AS dx, everyone looked at him as being the psychiatric disorder of the month ( some months they said bipolar, other months it was CD, other months is was ODD) and of course, the school staff all blamed our "horrible parenting" for son's problems......it wasn't until we had a neuropsych eval done with AS being the resulting dx,that we could get him out of the school he was in. we got him into a program that he felt safe in & supported in,and he began to get better. his behaviors became more controlled & today you would hardly recognize him as being the out of control "defiant" child he was.