Raised by Aspergers parent

Post Reply New Topic

Oh, I think this is true, and it's really what underlies so much of the second-guessing and self-criticism mothers do. (Dads, you'll have to speak for yourself -- I talk mostly with moms.) The moms I know are constantly trying to listen harder, pay closer and more sensitive attention to their children's needs -- it's real joy when they feel they've connected and been able to help their child grow and become a more confident person, and a real sense of frustration and failure when they feel their child needs something but can't figure out what it is. I mean that's what makes moms' conversation so endlessly boring to outsiders; it's emotional shop-talk. "I really think Josh is ready for soccer camp this summer [insert ten minutes on the clues that lead the mother to believe that Josh is ready for soccer camp, interrupted regularly by the friend whose child is or isn't ready for something else, and much note-comparing between the two]." Same when there's a moody girl, or an acting-out preschooler, or a kid who's slow to read, etc. It's all about understanding the child's needs at each step.

Well, that'd be a pretty twisted way to read it. How about this: Having discovered that the problem was not that he was a huge jerk and a horrible guy, but AS and completely clueless, I sought out others who'd had to live with the same problem, and found some here. And also found parents with AS presenting with the same shocking and harmful cluelessness I've seen in my own family. And I thought, My God, an opportunity to help families that might be living with the same problem. Tell the parents now, even if it hurts their feelings.



Once again, I'm seeing an attempt to kick the problem under the bed. "It's nothing to do with AS! You'd have been miserable anyway!"

It seems to me a pretty agnostic point. I understand that you don't want to hear what kind of damage AS can do, and move immediately to mitigate by surrounding it with "well, other things hurt too," but the fact remains.

You do realize that most mothers do look for help in raising their children? This is one of the points I've been making all along. We're constantly checking with others to see if we're doing right by our kids; we're constantly comparing what we do with what others do, and quizzing them about it; we're usually beset by worry that there's something we're not doing all we can to raise them well. There's a vast market in "how to raise your children" books and classes, and a similarly vast market in family therapy. We're usually looking for mentors and teachers for our kids who can give them things we can't; that was the point of my daycare story.

I think if you went into any motherhood forum and said "you parents need help to raise your children", people would wait to hear what your point was. (Or say, "Oh God, are you offering? When can you be here?")

This, really, is one of the key things, I think. It's normal for parents to look around, look at what other parents and children are doing, and ask, "Am I doing this right? Could I do better for my kids? Are the kids okay?" If what they're doing is out of step, they usually know why and are very much aware of the potential effects on their children, and try to mitigate; there's constant reevaluation, because there's some presumption that there are good reasons for others' doing what they do in raising their children, something important for the children. It's a rare parent that doesn't do this, as far as I've seen.

What other kids of AS parents and I seem to be reporting is that many AS parents *do not* do this, with devastating results. When the AS parent does do that continuous checking in and comparison with the rest of the world, with the assumption that there's wisdom in what others are doing -- as you did -- it appears to make a big difference.



I don't know how many more ways I can say that some AS parents do a good job, but clearly, some do not manage and wind up harming their families with the AS. You seem intent on ignoring the first part, though. There's really nothing I can do except say "go back and read the actual words I wrote."

As for my dad, no, he had not been raised that way. His father was very warm to me, and -- as far as I saw -- was always very interested in other people's lives. He found my father somewhat bewildering, and was asking me about him till the end of his life.

I don't think my father's aware of his condition. Unfortunately, talking to him has the same result as mentioning problems with AS parenting here. Phrasing problems politely, we get ignored, brushed off. If we're blunt, we get anger and insistence that it can't be true, that he's a good guy; denial of any problems; and personal attacks. In both cases, zero curiosity about any of the claims, no apparent lasting interest in the experience of others. Only defense and denial.



The acute selfcenteredness is hard for me to understand, especially in the context of children. My friends, too, have a hard time understanding why my father behaves so selfishly when it comes to his grandchildren. I get a lot of, "Won't he even bend for [grandchildren]? I mean they're only children! Oh, it's so sad." What they don't get is that he has acute difficulty stepping outside himself far enough to sense others' experience as real. If he hasn't felt it, hasn't experienced it, it hasn't happened. You can stand there talking about it forever; it makes only the most transient impression. His imagination about what his children and grandchildren go through is shockingly limited, and puzzles my daughter, who tries to explain to him that she's not a baby, and make it plain to him how old she is and what she can do. In time she'll understand that this is largely pointless.

His behavior isn't malicious, just deeply harmful. I remember a time -- I might've told this story -- when he wanted me to go take on some major project that he found exciting, something I was tangentially involved with. Wanted me to go write big grants, set up a whole enterprise. It was the kind of thing he might've done decades before. At the time, I had a toddler and a seriously mentally ill husband, and I'd spoken with my dad many times about how overwhelming it was and the difficulties we lived with. Obviously, I couldn't run off and set up some major enterprise of my own just then. Obvious to anyone else, anyway, who saw how thin I was already stretched, and how unpredictable my child and husband's needs were. But not at all obvious to him. He'd never been in that situation, and so it was as though it didn't exist. I understood then that he didn't know, and wouldn't know, that my family was in real trouble.


Something like that is sad, yes, and it makes one feel the lack of a relationship that's reasonable to expect. It obviously isn't his fault; something's not connecting in him, that's all. Something is missing. But I wouldn't call it harmful. Other things that stem from that lack of connection, though, do wind up harmful. Very harmful. But we've found no way to open his eyes to either the deficit or the need to do anything about it.

Almost forgot: League_Girl, you asked this:

"I also think the reason why you jumped to an assumption fast is because of your experience with your dad correct? "

There's a lot of assumptions flying around at this point -- which one were you thinking of? Feel free to PM me if you'd rather talk privately.

I think I may understand. Tarantella64 and Ediself, look at how we aspies write vs. how NT parents come on here and write. I believe our different writing styles come from different thought processes. I believe our different thought processes come from an axiom that aspies have and an axiom NTs have. I believe Aspies in general are trying to seek objective truths and facts. We think in systems and we see the NT world as one intricate system. This at least applies to me. We have been trying to ascertain what the rules are.

I could be wrong about this but I believe NTs put seeking objective truths below emotional bonding, emotional relationships and feelings. Ediself if you really notice and look carefully in the NT world their is an interconnectedness that NTs share with each other. They can be from different countries and different backgrounds. They can be of different ethnicities. This interconnectedness exists. Read the bible as well. What does God want? He wants to have a relationship with us. He wants to truly love us. When someone means to have consideration for others it means to get yourself and thinking of yourself out of the way to share this dance if you understand the metaphor. The NT partners of us aspies wants to share an emotional bond with us. Ediself, they do not want logic, they do not want explanations or objective truths. They want to emotionally bond with us on wrongplanet and their children.

Even with sex, for alot of them it is an emotionally bonding experience. It is Two Hearts, One Soul or Many Hearts One Soul.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 237AAC9GoN

I believe this right here is the objective truth we may have been looking for. We need to quit seeking objective truths and try to emotionally bond with them. In the math and sciences there are objective truths and logic but in general life there are no objective truths or absolutes. Would an NT parent or spouse please do me a favor and either comfirm or deny this?

I've had second thoughts about my post, the one previously inhabiting this space. Shoot, I have second thoughts about everything I write when my mind is blurred by work deadlines! I get "off." But, with the missive (a) posting out of order to what I was responding to and (b) seeming to be a thread killer ... I feel it is safest removed. Much easier than trying to figure out if I said what I meant, or if I even made sense, or if any of it had any chance of advancing the conversation ...

It made perfect sense to me. I wish you did not remove it.

I understand this as a concept, yes. But for me there is no bonding without logical exchange (once you go illogical, you lose your credit and my "soul" withdraws like a snail in its shell), and there is no bonding without exchange of facts. My son is at his closest to me, emotionally speaking, when I am teaching him facts. That's why homeschooling works for us, I teach and he gives me something in return, a random fact he learnt about somewhere else, that I may not even know, and I am amazed at him, and he is relaxed and happy. I love pretending that I'm not sure what he's telling me is true, just to see him jump on the computer and prove me wrong.

I think the problem for me is that I don't retain enough fact to base a relationship on the exchange of it. Many people do, NT or AS, and that can be the basis for two men, for example, to bond - - over baseball stats But there really would be no area in which I could do that, except tax law, and, well, that isn't very social Plus, I find so little in this world to be truly objective; I can always find the gray or other side, at least to my vision. So, I connect on instinct and understanding, my ability to see connections or read into a situation. I'm usually looking for yin and yang.

1. Are there cases in which doing the right thing can be the wrong thing to do?
2. Are there cases in which doing the wrong thing can be the right thing to do?

Does anyone have a resolution to my two questions?

1. Are there cases in which doing the right thing can be the wrong thing to do?
2. Are there cases in which doing the wrong thing can be the right thing to do?

Does anyone have a resolution to my two questions?

You're mistaking facts with opinions here, there are no facts about right and wrong only beliefs. But you're a christian, so I understand why those questions may be confusing to you.
There is no absolute right and wrong, Killing someone is never socially acceptable to most people/ killing someone to save the life of your child IS socially acceptable (to most people I believe). See what I mean? there are no truths here, just opinions.
Doing something wrong by doing the right thing happens too. I'm struggling to find an example here. Because it all depends on whose definition of "right thing" you go by. But I think if you take my example above, you did both. A right thing, and a wrong thing , by the same action.
Doing the right thing, (not killing the man) would be the wrong thing to do (you would let him kill your child)
Doing the wrong thing (killing the man) is the right thing to do, so the child may live.
But then there are the people who disaggree with this I suppose. Different values, different beliefs, no absolute truth

His behavior isn't malicious, just deeply harmful.

I think herein lies the problem: a lot of the things that you say about your dad are just him being a jerk. I don't know of anyone with AS that wouldn't go through a Christmas with their dying spouse's family and do everything they could to make it happy, no matter how sh** it was for them. I don't know anyone who wouldn't hold a distraught spouse (even if it was painful).

The counselor will help both of you talk about things that can be hard to talk about in useful ways. She'll help you learn how to pick up on your wife's emotions and how to respond, and she'll also explain to you what your wife is expecting from you, and how to give it to the extent you can. She'll also work with your wife to help your wife understand AS better and what your limits and needs are, and to come to terms with the fact -- if this is a problem for her -- that there are some things you just aren't going to be doing, and help her find ways to satisfy needs in other ways. Assuming that's what she wants to do.

Apart from sharing experiences with other grown children of AS parents on this thread, which helps us see patterns, and see that we're not alone or crazy, I'd say the idea is fairly simple: it's to communicate to AS parents, or those thinking about becoming parents, that difficulty in noticing family members' AS-related suffering seems to be common in AS, as does difficulty in accepting its reality. That stands mightily in the way of the AS parent/spouse's ability to do anything to stop hurting people they presumably love. Key in getting rid of that roadblock is shortcircuiting this scene: NT family member tells AS person he's hurt her; AS person denies that she is hurt (by attempting to prove that she isn't hurt, by making her out to be ridiculous, or by denying that it was possible for him to have hurt her), is angry and/or complains of victimization, and makes the scene about himself, not the fact that the other person is hurt and some remedy is needed.