Raised by Aspergers parent

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I think figuring out parents is especially difficult. It is also a process I don't really feel that well qualified to address, given that my day to day life is figuring out kids (and taxes, but that is entirely separate ). But this thread started when I was a moderator and I guess I've always felt an obligation to it, to at least try to come up with something for those who find it, but I have no idea if I am in the least bit helpful; it's much more off the path for me.

Probably the real help is just in knowing there are other children who've grown up with the same questions, isn't it?

Anyway. I think I would start with something similar to what I tell parents who can't get a straight diagnosis for their kids: what happens if you use tools from the AS tool box? Do things go better? If they do, maybe knowing "why" doesn't matter; "why," after all, is often (for parents, at least) the way to figure out which tool to pick up. And if you try out tools and find the right one, then maybe why isn't as important anymore.

Of all the traits you listed, which would you say has been the most difficult to deal with?

It actually sounds like most of his quirks you've adapted to. You seem to be aware he needs direct logic, that he has a need to be obsessive about certain things, etc., and I don't pick up negative judgement from you at this point on those traits. That is a really good start. You have a real relationship with him, or you wouldn't know these details. And he seems to trust you, or how could he talk to you about something as personal as an upcoming doctor's appointment? While I had picked up on most of my dad's quirks and how to deal with them, he would never have talked to me about seeing a doctor - except to say that they didn't know anything It sounds like you have a good foundation, and I think that is very positive.

The stubborn thing is interesting, because I've come to realize it isn't stubborn with most people with AS as much as it is a true inability to see something from a different angle. It's like asking someone to understand the trunk of an elephant when they've got their arms around a leg, can't leave the leg, and will never see or feel the trunk. It can be really hard. And a lifetime of trying to adapt to that - as all of our parents obviously did - can lead to some unusual life conclusions. About other people, the world, doctors ... even kids. It definitely explained a lot for me, when I got my son's diagnosis, studied about ASD's, and realized that it very much described my father.

You do also mention sensory issues, which are officially considered co-morbid. Many with AS are deeply affected by sensory issues, and it can create a lot of stress, and what seem to us as off the wall reactions. Very much worth understanding what these are for someone.

I also wonder if your father has a disgraphia or hypermobility, which are more commonly co-morbid than dyslexia, and which quite specifically create issues with writing. My son's diagnosis was actually driven by a need to figure out why he struggled so much with writing, it is literally painful for him. Thankfully we live in a world where kids don't need to hand write, but that wasn't true when your father grew up, and if he had the same issues my son has, it would have been an awful process for him.

Finally, I wonder if your father would want to know? About AS and what you're thinking? Tricky ground, as you know if you read my post to doadie, above ....just ... that sentence you wrote about doctor visits, also has me thinking that your father seems to know he is different, and to be struggling with it.

Yes. That's true.


His "stubborness" and the things which make him angry or upset and the way he expresses this kind of feelings: mostly running around the house while shouting (reiteratively without listening to anybody) that someone else is at fault , not him, for e.g. removing something which he can't find anymore. This shows "stubborness"(reluctance to see) and reacting disproportionately at the same time. This has led to....well, me being terribly afraid of him for a long moment and feeling devastated. Really great outbursts of rage don't happen that often (maybe every 5 years) but the little ones can be emotionally exhausting, as well.
They are difficult to deal with because there seems to be almost no way you can calm him down, ...only trying to fix whatever apparent problem there is and if it's not possible try to get out of the way (obviously or not, those attempts don't happen in a clean cut and calm way). And also because...even if you know you did nothing at all to cause his distress he may be attacking you anyway.


I think I've adapted quite well....or actually, most of those quirks never disturbed me anyway, especially those that are like not related to his environment if that makes sense. For a very long time I didn't notice them as unusual at all and hence didn't reflect on them.
But as he will stop working soon, I am worried (actually, everyone is worried) that he won't handle this situation well. That's when I started to analyse him, in the hopes of finding a why but as you said, it's to pick up the right "tools".

See, that's a very helpful thing to know.


Wow. Thanks a lot. I've checked on those two now and I must say dyslexic dysgraphia absolutely describes the way my father writes and his handwriting looks like. Now it also makes much more sense.


Hmmm.....I've never thought about that one.
Coincidentally, today he had an doctor's appointment and asked me again what he should say. Then..he had to call the doctor's office to correct an appointment but he told me I should do it and I was like "why, it's your doctor" and he said"It's better you do it." That's something he does ,too , he doesn't like talking on the phone and would rather let everybody else do the talking.
I guess, he feels something, knows something. Once (maybe more than once) I've called him "crazy"while he was repeating one of his words he sometimes says out of the blue, anyway...he didn't react at all, kind of like shutting down. (I know that was rude.) So he may feel something but ignore it or maybe he's just too extremely introverted to come out with his thoughts and concerns, or he doesn't see a need himself or which is also very likely...:
He,too, sees the world in black and white terms, he's old-fashioned in some ways. I can't imagine him accepting or coming to terms with such a diagnosis.
I can't imagine his reaction, so either it would help him to know or it would hurt him deeply. So I don't know if he would want to know about my thoughts in this regard and even if he would want to know, I don't see him asking me. His inner world is a sealed book to everybody.

Sounds a lot like my father.

And I consider the situation to be ... complicated. Probably not something I can address adequately in the time I have right now, or in a post, anyway.

First question: are you still living in the same home?

Second note: regardless of where the behavior comes from, which I do have some theories on, and regardless of whether he is aware of the effect (and he probably isn't completely), to the person on the other side of it, it is emotional / verbal abusive. I honestly believe it plays out exactly the same, so as a matter of self-protection, if you haven't recognized that already, you should consider it. And consider whether you want to talk to a professional about it, to sort out how to make sure you don't become a victim in your adult relationships. Understanding and being tolerant of other people's quirks is great, but there is a point where they can be toxic to us, and that toxicity cannot be contained without giving it a name. We have a duty to ourselves to protect ourselves from the potentially toxic actions those around us might take, no matter how much we love those people.

Hopefully the things I've done with my son give him a better methodology for dealing with life's daily stresses, but who knows if I've succeeded. I do think people of your father's generation, however, often weren't given anything. They were just told what they couldn't do, and maybe were punished for it, without anyone recognizing or trying to handle where the behavior came from. Once they got to be adults, and could act that way without a parent either metaphorically or literally smacking them for it, they had no choice but to release it. Pain and frustration don't go away; they stay inside somewhere, and eventually they have to come out. Your father, most likely, doesn't have an acceptable methodology for handling or mitigating all those feelings, so the first moment something is wrong, it all tumbles out.

As you said, it has nothing to do with you, and it usually also has little to do with the trigger, although solving the trigger usually does make them stop in their tracks. There tends to be a bunch of built up stress behind it, from the day to day dealings that may seem like nothing to us, but are all huge hurdles to him.

Solving the trigger can be super tough because someone like this (not sure it is an AS thing, or a personality thing) cannot understand that alternative paths may be possible. There is only path A, and path A has been thwarted. It matters more because path B is impossible, path C doesn't exist, and so on. And there is no getting them to see or believe in those other paths. It's A or nothing.

One of my big goals with my son is to get him to see and believe in paths B and C. We've experimented with that on things that aren't super important to him, to let him learn what it feels like to fly by the seat of your pants and take an impossible road. To let him know that even when it doesn't work it was worth trying. And so on. I have no idea if he'll take that on as an adult.

Another goal with my son is to get him to see the build up of stress, and to engage in self-mitigating techniques so that it never gets overwhelming. For someone with AS, the prime method of self-calming is usually a stim or repetitive type behavior of some sort. Except, guess what? Whatever stims or repetitive behaviors your father would have naturally sought out most likely got squashed by his parents.

While I've taught my son all sorts of techniques for avoiding those moments, we do still sometimes have them. I will not allow him to be abusive to me at those times. I stay calm, I offer to help, but I am firm that he must not accuse me or berate me. Or his sister. Or whoever he wants to deflect on in the moment of frustration.

When I see my husband getting edgy from stress, the protocol is for to suggest that he take a walk. We agreed to that early on in our marriage: I can suggest he take a walk, he can leave to take a walk, any time, no questions asked. It is a good self-calming technique for him.

But what the heck do you do with a father? You may not have the authority to put up the line that says, "I will help you resolve the problem, but you must be careful how you speak to me. I am not your problem." And you may not have the authority to say, "I think you should take a walk." If you are in a position of having to be subjected to this situation often, definitely talk to a professional about how to manage it.

With my dad, retirement didn't make things much worse. He had his hobbies; he set up a routine he liked; he was fine. A little disappointed that mom wasn't home more than she was, but she held firm that she should be able to keep the life she had built for herself (church, volunteer work, clubs), and then he adapted to that, too. The stroke was a killer though. It was really, really difficult for my mom after that. She knew it was the stroke, but it didn't make it any easier. But no one gets it easy as the end of life nears, it's just the way it is.

Yes.


I felt like that is the case, that it is abusive.
Other than that, I'm considering it.


It's a new way of thinking about him for me but that sounds plausible.


If it's truely AS, possibly. I've heard his parents were strict with him.


Thanks for your advices. Really. I think I'm gaining more perspective on this than I've ever had.


Thank you for this recount.

Even if you say it's not possible to adress this situaton properly here, these words alone help. I think they do.

My heart was pounding as I read this.....this sounds exactly like my upbringing....I was the oldest daughter of 7 kids, with a non-diagnosed 'sounding more and more like ND AS poster dad every day' Father. My father was annoyed by me, and put WAY too much responsibility on me at a very young age, and I too had to dissociate from him to survive emotionally....now am on my 3rd marriage and am happy, but you know.

Now that I have my very own AS child and as I have recently started learning about the genetic component.....HELLO dad, I finally get why you are so different.

Thank you for posting....I feel like crying

I am glad something I wrote resonated. It is a little strange for me, because I wrote that one more than a year and a half ago, and this is one of the few threads that endures outside of the time it was written. It has been interesting to see where the thread takes people. Anyway, it is good to know that something sometimes resonates, and I wish you much luck on your journey with your family.

These "Aspish" father stories sound so much like my dad too. I couldn't really have much of a relationship with him until I was an adult and we could relate on an intellectual level. He terrified me as a child with his meltdowns. I think he had an emotional need to have a big family (5 children) but couldn't handle the noise and confusion. He was very rigid in his routines ("system" was a word I heard a lot) and always had a special interest going. He saved everything-Once I came home for a visit and found a grocery bag full of those rectangular sheets of dryer lint in the laundry room. He was saving it to try to make paper. For all his faults he was an honorable man and I consider him to have been my moral compass. I'm rambling, there's so much to say about the guy. He was an absolute bastard and also one of my best friends and that taught me that people are complex and snap judgements about people are useless.

Nice to give your account. It's a good feeling when you know that you're not alone in this.

(Btw,my father also saves a lot and everything which can and at the same time cannot be good. Depends.)

My father didn't make sense to me when I was a child. He was strict. Lie and you got hit with a bamboo stick on the back of the legs. He bought a lie detector (not with the hook up electrode machine) but it measured some voice waves. It was humiiatting to not be trusted on a basic level. Talk about short fuses...he used to have extreme "rages" I used to call them. Didn't know why. He never drank so I just didn't understand why he could get so violent in such a short period of time. He did resort to hitting us in anger quite a bit. This was the worst part of my childhood. I feared my father and what he was capable of during his rages.

I think the other worst part was if I was hurt or upset about anything, and I cried about it, he would laugh at me. That hurt me very deeply. I remember once I had been crying before I was going out with friends. My father came over to where I was getting my shoes on and just handed me money and said, "here ya go." That was it. I used that to buy drugs. Something had to medicate that kind of pain. I did dabble in a lot of drugs in my teens to numb the pain but have been drug free for 20+ years. Drugs=big regret, btw.

In the end, I left home at 16 and it was very freeing to be out of his reach. I hated him and went thought a lot of counselling to figure out why I was so angry.

Now, ff a lot of years and only with my son's dx did I understand that this is the dx that my father never got. I do have a better understanding of why he did what he did, but end the end, I missed out on a childhood.

.

I am an adult child of a person who I feel is likely Asperger's. I know my mom will never seek diagnosis, or treatment. She is 62 years old now.

I think early in her life, she was protected by my grandmother (her mother). My aunt says that mom would 'steal' her friends, befriending people she had brought home for sleepovers. Most of mom's social relationships have come about through befriending friends and family of other family members. She met her second husband at her brother's wedding reception.

She has always spoken in a monotone voice, almost like she is yelling to someone far away but in a normal volume level. She also has sort of a tic of clearing her throat often when in conversation.

Mom has always been recognized as being very intelligent. I know this is something my grandmother encouraged as she herself was unable to have the career she wanted. Mom earned a physics degree in the 70's when not many women were doing this. She also has a master's in Botany and recently earned a teaching certificate, and an accounting certificate. Despite these academic accomplishments, she is a payroll clerk. She determines who gets paid what and when. She also had a hard time keeping jobs mostly for social reasons I believe.

She is also probably a hoarder. If she could, (if she lived alone), I'm sure her living space would be just extraordinarily full. I always used to hate riding in her car because of the smell. There would always be rotten fast food, leaking liquid containers of some sort or another, etc....

Of course, she does not make eye contact. For myself, eye contact is something I have to struggle to remember to do. I am not sure if this is because I might be AS or just because I was raised by someone who doesn't make eye contact.

When driving with her, often long distances the requirement was that I remain quiet and not talk with her. She said talking while driving distracted her.

Doing homework with her (at her request) always ended up in a shouting match. She felt the need to demonstrate to me how she learned things and how whatever way teachers were teaching these days was not correct. I think that the reason for this was twofold. First, she had gotten a lot of attention from her academic achievements and so wanted more of this from me. Second, she truly believed that there was only one way to work algebra problems (for example) and felt that I must be educated correctly. I think that this set me up to expect a work environment homework=work where I was set up to fail and to expect disapproval from supervisors no matter what I did.

Mom has also had an affinity for men in her life who would be described by most people as being 'red neck'. However, she is fascinated with the 'redneck' who may exhibit strong intellectual skills despite not having education. Those who manufacture intricate things, or who live life by their own rules etc... I think also that in this population of "uneducated" people, she did not stand out as different like she might in an "educated" community. They attribute her quirkiness to a female who has an education rather than to her possibly having a mental illness.

These are just a few of the things that I notice about her. I'm sure I could expand on this ad nausem, but won't just now.

As I said before, I know that my mother will never seek treatment, and so what I would like to get from this group/message board is to learn what are some common things experienced by adult children of Asperger's sufferers. How should I learn to interact with her in a more effective way? What traits or habits might I have as a result of being raised by an Aspie, that I should try to fix? How can I help her at this phase of her life to lead a more fulfilling life?

You should be aware that there is no "treatment" for Aspergers. While some points in your original post sound more like co-morbid conditions than ASD, and it might be possible to treat those, I hope you will learn to discuss ASD as a difference, and not a disease.

As for your specific questions, it would help to know how much of the thread you've read. On how to interact, perhaps simply being patient is a good place to start. Show interest in what interests her, and see if that helps you relate. Remember that people with AS, if that is what she has, take things extremely literally, and are confused by many common phrases and expressions, so consider how the things you say may be perceived by her. I'm not concerned that you would have picked up traits or habits you might need to try to fix, although you may have grown up with some incorrect perceptions and assumptions, because she would have had some. Being observant of the world around you, and comparing notes with friends, can help with that.

Dealing with the emotional fall out of outbursts or imposed rigidity may be another issue. There are issues from that which can carry forward into your adult relationships, of which you may not be aware. I think some of the discussion further up this page will clue you into what I'm thinking of when I mention that.

But what you can do to help her have a more fulfilling life at this phase of her life ... I don't really think of that as the goal. I think the most important thing you do at a certain age is come to terms with the life you've had, and the path you've chosen,. Doing that gives you more sense on what to do now. JHMO. Which leads me to a question: how do you think she feels about her life? What has she said? Does SHE wonder why her career has never panned out? Does she wonder why she is different? Or is she content with her own choices and paths? I don't know if she's ever told you those things, but maybe you've picked up clues?

hi, I'm in shock as have found out my father has aspergers. I wonder if people are still posting under this section. It is all new to me. Anyway, I have found it excrutiating growing up with this person. I am afraid that I truely dislike them most of the time, which means enourmous guilt. I am very tired and just getting by at the moment. Hope someone responds. My mates wont understand for sure

This thread isn't posted in often, but it lives; it seems to provide something for those who find it. I've watched some posters answer their own questions and find peace here. Takes time, though. You will have some phases to go through.

There is so much in the conversations already here, some good, some rough; if you read it through you are likely to find something that connects.

I've been thinking (just today, actually) about how my mother probably has undiagnosed AS, so I'm glad this thread is here. There's a lot more to it, but someone mentioning their parent putting too much responsibilty on them at a young age was huge with us (I, basically, raised my sister). My mother has never had friends as long as I can remember (I always passed it off as "shyness" but she's not really that shy?). I can't remember her ever playing with me as a kid. Ever. And what I was really thinking about today was how out of touch she was with my emotions? Like...I was a miserable kid/teen, and she seemed pretty oblivious to it. Even when I was physically injured/sick, it more than once took calls from the school nurse to get her to take me to the er/dr. I don't think she was intentionally neglectful just...I don't know.

Hmm.

So, I have been reading through a couple of years worth of comments from people with similar circumstances to how I was raised. The quote above is the most similar to my life! Things have escalated with my personal situation which I recently shared with good friends who have known me over 20 years. They believe my father to have some type of mental illness. I shared some recent blurbs with my sister-in-law whose husband has similar behaviors to my father - she believes her husband is undiagnosed with AS and so is my father. The look on my friends' faces and the way my 63 year old father treats me was horrifying because what I know as "normal" clearly is not.

A little background. My parents married young - 20 years old. My mother was Japanese and my father was obsessed with her, the Japanese culture, being Catholic, and sex. Those seem to be hot buttons. My mother passed away 5 years ago. Who took care of her - the husband who loved her the most? No, it was me. And I loved her and wanted to - but I had to because he couldn't. She had a very aggressive cancer that destroyed her body within 3 months. Since then, my life has been unraveling with this man who I used to see as a normal father and now is my personal doppleganger. With her gone, he was in a deep depression (as was I.) Luckily I have 2 kids of my own to care for and focus on. He mourned and found a friend online - she is Malaysian (of course, Asian.) And he skypes with her 2x day for hours. They have visited each other and now he is obsessed with Chinese/Malaysian culture, being Catholic, sex, the lottery, and now politics and the end of the world. Oh and cancer. He has been battling prostate cancer. Believe me, I am sensitive to cancer, but with him, I am desensitized because all he talks about is Eastern medicine, diets, juicing, veganism, alkalinity. It goes on and on. He mentions it in every phone conversation, every email, everytime we see each other - about once/week. He talked non-stop about eating baking soda daily which ironically seems to have worked, for 2 hours in the car riding on Thanksgiving with my family. I do not know how my husband drove the car because I held in so many profanities in the backseat with the kids while he lectured us at volume 9 for 2 hours!

You cannot have a conversation with this man. He talks, you listen. It's not worth the energy to change the subject or share anything personal. If I share a personal anecdote, he will judge me and have a negative comment. Only exception - excellence. If my child, brothers, neice/nephew or I ever excel at something - then he's all about hearing about success. If anyone is struggling - he's the expert or judge. Another obsession is my brothers' drinking. (Failure - personal failure that it has come through is bloodline. That is a quote I have heard more than 50 times.) After reading this blog, I wonder if drinking isn't something they do because of their childhood or perhaps we 3 have AS to a certain degree. My father has always complained about being unable to sleep. My one brother has a terrible time sleeping.

My brothers have tons of friends though. My father has very few. And his family doesn't like him. I always thought we grew up in a biggoted family and that may be true - we were on the outside bc my mom was a "Jap." Or maybe they couldn't stand him like I can't right now. They didn't have AS then. I have 2 autistic cousins on his side. This is something in his family I am finding out. Do I have AS? I think it is possible. My initial instinct when my kids would cry when hurt was to make it go away and minimize the hurt by sort of making them "be strong." I was raised that way. I am not touchy feely except with my kids, but not all the time. I do not like people in my space. My Dad is a hugger though. He can make eye contact. I don't remember sensitivity to noise, but he plays Rush Limbaugh so loudly and speaks so loudly. I remember his temper as a child - I feared him. I read someone's quote about "eyes of black coal." I almost wet my chair. He did get those crazy eyes and he would bite on his lip and expose his teeth. Then I would get scared. Being the everpleasing daughter, I did not get spanked. My brothers did and hate him for it. One brother really hates him bc his ego was damaged and has never been repaired. My father knows it, but doesn't understand it. When you bring up something he doesn't want to hear, he rages and attacks you personally like a pitbull. I tend to do the same.

My father retired 2-3 years ago and is always busy with checklists, church, etc - can't spend time with my family - always looking to leave - after he has spewed on and on about his alkaline diet and what we are eating is so bad for us but tastes so good that he has to eat it. Then for the next month I have to hear about how good he is eating at home juicing broccoli except the time he was at my house and ate meat. And I feel so guilty being so annoyed with him to the point that when my phone rings (God how I wish this was 25 years ago before cel phones!) and I see his name pop up. Do I have the energy to listen? How is he going to upset me in this conversation? I mean, I am the only person here who he talks to. It's my responsibility. I am losing it. My Mother was the best. She was laid back, so fun, so easy going and positive. She was the sounding board for our family, the buffer. I always knew he was a difficult person. I HATED him as a teenager. I thought it was a puberty/teen thing. Maybe so, maybe not. Sorry, I am rambling.

The really weird stuff I think freaks my friends and sis-in-law out are whenever I am in a bad mood - I finally lose control over what I am thinking and verbalize in a usually nasty way my opinion about what he is telling me or a criticism of myself - he always asks if I am PMSing. That is his excuse that I don't agree with him. It's not his fault ever that he has hurt my feelings, attacked me, or said something inappropriate; rather it is me with PMS. Oddly enought, usually that is the case, but everyone agrees - that it is not appropriate for a father to point it out. But see, this is a parent who has discussed his sex life multiple times with me since my 20's/30's. I mean not in detail, but the fact that if my family had arrived moments earlier, we would have interrupted them. Would freak out my husband - me, I thought everyone talked like this. So you can imagine a person with prostate cancer losing the ability to have sex even though my mother was dead. Still obsessed with sex. OMG. I had to hear things no daughter should - my brothers were sickened when they heard it from him, too. It's just...gross.

So, I am venting. I have come to the realization that I have lead a dysfunctional life. I am awakened. I have felt guilty everytime I would vent about my father. I was raised to feel guilty. I don't know how to deal with this especially now that he is beating this cancer with his crazy diet. Now all he talks about is how it's working and western medicine is corrupt. Yadda yadda. I am at a loss and do not want to take this out on my own family. He is not going to change. This relationship is not about being a daughter who is cared for and loved; I am here to help him, listen to him, shop for him, give him something to brag about, take care of his house when he is gone. Can I put in earplugs? Can I get a volume button for him? Can I commit myself to a silent monastery? Maybe monthly? I am kidding, but my cup is overflowing with this and I do not know how to continue being his personal "assistant."

Guilty daughter, you don't have to be your father's personal assistant. Just be his daughter. Hire someone for that other stuff if you possibly can, or encourage him to. Which is all a lot harder to do than to write, I know that.

And find time to take care of yourself. You are grieving, nothing feels right, it can't.

If my father had outlived my mother, he always said he would remarry. Someone from a poor country, who wouldn't be too picky about him being an old and annoying man. Because, face it, my father did not know how to survive on his own; he never, ever, lived alone. Some of the things you wrote reminded me of that. My Dad would have married an Asian woman had he known any, I swear. Funny the things that stick out in a story.

But he really, truly loved my mother. In his way.

I am really, really sorry for the loss of your mother.