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ouinon
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30 Nov 2011, 4:32 pm

This is an amazing thread; it's extraordinary to read such similar experiences to mine, as a child, of my dad, and even my mother ( as I already posted about on page 1 ).

It's also fairly horrifying, as someone on the spectrum who is mother to a 12 year old boy, ( also on spectrum ) ... because reading the thread again today for the first time in a while I see many descriptions of parents which are vivid portraits of ME, as I am with my son.

I had already many times thought/worried about the way I was/am as a mother. When my son was just a couple of weeks old I actually begged his father to let me put him up for adoption because I had realised with such a dreadful awful jolt that being a mother was going to be so very very difficult and that I was probably going to make such a terrible mess of it ... but the father was not having any of it.

I really appreciate DW_a_mom's analyses of why her father was the way he was. I so recognise that tendency to see only one "good"/"right" choice, etc etc etc. And am so glad that people have shared so honestly their experiences because it is helpful if frightening to realise just how much my being on the autism spectrum, especially when am not following a gluten-free diet, ( as was not for 10 months this year, until late October, now going through "withdrawal" ), when so many of the worst traits or associated states ( obsessiveness, anxiety, rigid repetitive behaviour and speech, black and white thinking, inability to "feel" or at least empathise with/understand other's pain/emotional states, etc etc ) re-emerge, are accentuated, has huge negative impacts on my son, on my ability to parent.
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12 Dec 2011, 6:54 pm

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13 Dec 2011, 11:11 am

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OliveOilMom
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13 Dec 2011, 1:09 pm

I have Aspergers and was raised by a mother with borderline personality disorder, an alcoholic grandfather and a bipolar grandmother. I'm lucky I turned out as good as I did.

I'm married to an NT and have four NT kids, and my kids all seem great. They have friends, are social, do things I didn't do, etc. We are a very close family. I was only diagnosed a few years ago, and up until then I thought there were just something "wrong with me" so I forced myself to act "normal". I've done that so much that it's habit now, and I can't say their upbringing is much different than other kids upbringing. Except I talk to them about anything and everything. Except my personal love life. I've never brought that up with them. But otherwise, I've always talked to them like they were adults, even when they were little kids. I treated them like adults and expected them to act, within reason, like adults. Not to not play or anything, not at all. But to have some common sense and respect for others feelings, etc. I also talked to them like I expected them to understand things from an adult perspective. When they didn't understand, I'd explain it to them. They seemed to get it. They still were kids and did all the things kids do, but I guess I gave them a level of respect and consideration more than other parents did. I never thought they couldn't understand something, because I could understand those things at their age.


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13 Dec 2011, 2:47 pm

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I wil try to describe my mother. I hope you don't mind me using this thread as an outlet. Also I apologize in advance for the language. English is not my native. Here goes.

My mother is determined to do everything right. She will not spare herself in the attempt to be perfect in any way. Unfortunately she doesn't seem to have any inner concept of what is right and wrong, good and bad. She tends to take over opinions and views from others a lot. Often verbatim, with matching voicing. She will even copy other peoples memories.
I have heard her for example discussing a movie with someone, using the exact same words and opinions that I used when I discussed the same movie with her the day before.
I have had her tell me about something she remembered from her childhood, with apparently no recollection that it was actually my childhood memory that I had told her a few days earlier.
A couple of years ago I coincidently watched an old seventies movie about some women who were in hospital giving birth. It was then I realized that the story that my mother has been telling me every year on my birthday about her recollection of my birth is actually something she copied from a movie.

It seems she is floating in and out of different roles and opinions, and it can be very confusing. She can easily hold conflicting opinions, apparently she doesn't feel any need of being consistent. There is an unwritten rule not to confront her on this. If for example she promised something, then the next day she might have forgotten all about it. If then I reminded her, she would berate me for not realizing on my own, that this promise off course did not count anymore. Or she would just flatly deny ever having made such a promise. I used a lot of energy as a child on trying to make sense of it, and sometimes it almost drove me mad. For my mother there is a great difference between saying she will do this or that and then actually doing it.

My mother has never voluntarily touched me when I was a child. I remember her pushing me away when I tried to hug her. Recently it seems to have occured to her, that hugging her children when meeting and parting is quite normal, and so she dutyfully does this.
The only times my mother have been proud of me are the times when other people have praised me to her. I got very good grades in school, but my mother thought nothing of it. I remember coming home from exams with top grades, and she didn't ask me how it went, cause she had forgotten. Only after talking to other parents and realizing that these exams were a big deal to them she showed interest. One thing I can say about my mother is that she has never paced me. Other kids in school were afraid what their parents would say if they got a bad grade. Some of them would be rewarded if they got a good grade. Their parents turned op on graduating day, mothers wearing hats and fathers in blazers. They had to be home at certain hours. The contrast to my mother was enormous, and I didn't know how to explain it to them. Sometimes I made up that I wasn't allowed to do this or that, just because I didn't want to be the only kid who could do whatever she wanted, stay away as long as I wanted to without even being missed. I walked around in my mothers old clothes that she wore for gardening, while the other girls in my class complained about being forced by their mothers to go shopping. I lived in a completely different world than them, I couldn't explain it, and I was considered odd. If I asked my mother for new clothes she would give her money-don't-grow-on-trees speach which ended like this: "why don't you ask your father, don't you think it is time he contributes?" Well knowing that my father had forgotten all about me, and besides I was not allowed to call him because of the phone bill.
The ironic thing is, that the last couple of years I have been helping my mother with her financial accounting, so now I know that our family was probably one of the wealthiest in the school. My mother drove a car the price of a small house, she still does. Still we lived like we were dirt poor, we always tried to save anywhere we could, and I always felt terribly guilty of the expenses I caused her.

My mother has never comforted me when I was sad or scared or having problems. Most of the time she wouldn't notice that something was even wrong. If she noticed, she would berate me until I stopped showing signs of any negative feelings. The fact that I was still feeling the same way inside did not bother her in the least. To her there does not seem to be any difference between appearing happy and actually being happy. And it was very important to her that her children appeared happy so she could be a perfect mother. She would concider negative feelings on my side a criticism of her as a mother and berate me for being ungrateful. She would recite her speech on how she was providing me with food and clothes and a place to live, and what more could anyone demand of her, she was working night and day etc.etc.

She bought a horse for me, and this was to her the ultimate proof that I had everything I could ever wish for, that I was spoiled, and that she was the best mother anyone could ever imagine. She told me this often. Every time she was dissatisfied with me, she would threaten to give the horse away to a girl who was the daughter of one of her acquaintances and would probably be much more grateful than me.
When I was about 13 years old my father almost died when he tried to kill himself. He was in the intensive unit for a week, and after that my mother found out that she could make me act any way she wanted by implying that she contemplated suicide or claiming that she was very ill and probably had cancer. She often did this at christmas to keep me and my sister from arguing.

She would feel very offended if I felt something that she had not intended me to feel. She can say horrible things without realizing, and if I told her that something she said was hurtful to me, she would consider it my mistake, because that was not her intention.
When she tries to explain something to someone, she is not able to take into account if they don't have the same knowledge that she has. Recently I read a letter she had written for her assurance company that would made absolutely no sense for someone not informed on the matter.
Once we were out walking the dog, when a couple with a baby in a stroller passed by, and the dog stuck its whole head down and licked the baby's face. The mother of the baby was horrified and they hurried away very upset. I tried to explain to my mother that she couldn't let the dog do that, but she failed to see the problem. She just kept on stating that the dog wasn't dangerous, it would never harm a baby. She couldn't understand that other people don't know this. She couldn't understand that scaring somebody is also a form of harm.

Money is very important to my mother. She measures everything in terms of money. For example last summer when I came to visit her, I saw that her dog had lost a lot of weight, and he was almost a skeleton. He was clearly sick, and when asked my mother did recall, that he had not been eating for a while. She did not see any significance in this though, she was sure it would fix itself, and thought it was probably nothing. My sister and I convinced her to take him to the vet. It turned out to be heartworms, and he was medicated and started to eat again. My mothers comment on this was, that for the money she had to pay the vet, she could have bought a whole new dog. She was sure that he would have gotten better on his own, and she blamed us for making her waste her money. Left to her own devices this dog would have died of hunger right in front of her eyes without her noticing anything wrong.

I remember once missing the bus on my way home from the horse center in the evening. There were several hours until the next bus, it was dark and there were nobody left except for me. There are about 10 km. to the town, mostly highroad. I was maybe 11 years old. I called my mother from the payphone asking if she would pick me up in the car. She lectured me on the cost of gas until my money ran out, then I waited for a couple of hours in the empty and dark cafeteria and went home by bus.

My mother likes the days to be alike. There are no special occasions, time just passes by and the same day repeats with as small variation as possible. She doesn't expect things to change, and when they do she has a hard time accepting it and adjusting to it. She likes to repeat conversations we have already had many times before. Changes in our lives always were initiated by someone else, often my father when he was with us for periods of time.

She often misinterpret peoples intentions. She either trust them completely or distrust them completely. And she is convinced her assessment is right even in the face of evidence. It is not possible to explain to her that people can have hidden motives for saying and doing things. For example that a salesperson hired to sell her something is not her friend. Or a lawyer hired by a former employee threatening to sue. On the other hand, if she gets the impression that someone is trying to use her or is after her money, she can be quite paranoid. She is often convinced that people's actions are aimed at her, even when it is unrealistic that they even know of her. And on the other hand she can totally overlook when people actually are purposely being offensive to her.

She also does not comprehend that when people are scared/sad/angry/chocked they will react differently than when they are calm.

Sometimes it is frightening how suggestible she can be. She would do anything if she thought is was normal and expected from her. She often does not catch irony. She has a "friend" she plays tennis with, and this woman is often openly sarcastic and quite rude to my mother, who is totally oblivious of it. It is painful to witness.

She has very few people in her life. I can count on one hand the occasions on which there were guests in my childhood home.

She has a strong sense of fairness which only applies to herself. She has fixed opinions about how things should be, and gets very upset when reality does not meet her expectations.

She brags a lot. She gives long speeches about situations in her life and how well she handled them and how well she has done for herself. It was as if my life and my experiences could never be as important or significant as the glorious tales my mother told about her life. I often fell that I didn't quite exist on the same level that my mother did, that things that happened in my life was not as real. Lately I have pointed out to her that we only ever talk about her. She will then say "then why don't you just talk some more about yourself". But the fact is that she doesn't listen, she doesn't react to what I say, just waits for me to be done until she can't restraint herself anymore and cuts me off mid sentence.

I feel terribly guilty for writing all this. I feel so so sorry for my mother, because she actually always have the best intentions. It's all quite tragic really.



Lot of it didn't sound like AS TBH. Just someone who was dysfunctional. Who knows what she had.



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13 Dec 2011, 2:54 pm

BriarRose wrote:
I wil try to describe my mother. I hope you don't mind me using this thread as an outlet. Also I apologize in advance for the language. English is not my native. Here goes.

...

I feel terribly guilty for writing all this. I feel so so sorry for my mother, because she actually always have the best intentions. It's all quite tragic really.


That is what this thread is for, to be an outlet. And for all that you wrote ... the last sentence shows that you care a lot for your mother. There is nothing to be guilty for there.

No one gets perfect parents, especially when those parents had to grow up in a world that didn't know what they needed from it. So those parents did their best to figure out their lives, on their own in a way, and often they've figured it out incorrectly. It sounds like your mom has a variety of issues; some may be AS, some may be something else; but whatever the names for it are, the end result was that you also had to grow up without getting what you needed. I am so sorry for that, and your mother would be, too, if she could understand it. But. It sounds like she can't, and this is something you will have to come to terms with and move on from using other resources. If this thread has helped with that, I am glad.

Best of luck to you; post as you need.


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13 Dec 2011, 3:03 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
up until then I thought there were just something "wrong with me" so I forced myself to act "normal".


I think this is a useful observation for the people who find this thread, that their parents may have been trying to "act" in the ways they thought were "normal."

My son gets the funniest ideas about why other people do the things they do. It takes so many long conversations to sort that out, and if he didn't feel safe to be who he is at home, I don't think he would ever let us in on those views. He'd be buckling it in and doing his best with the limited - and inaccurate - information he had. Rather a recipe for long term disaster.

I feel like the knowing makes so much difference. Well, at least I hope it does.

Best of luck to you on your journey, too.


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13 Dec 2011, 3:27 pm

It honestly didn't make that much of a difference to me. I'm in my late 40s and was only diagnosed a few years ago. Long before now, acting "normal" has become habit. I have no desire to change how I act just because I know my dx. It simply explains things to me about why I feel and think and act the way I do.

I don't feel that I, or anyone else, needs to do anything to accomodate my AS, because I've learned how to deal with it. I've learned how to handle different situations in a way that I'm comfortable, or at least not as uncomfortable, with. If I need some time alone when I'm at a family gathering because it's all too much out there with them, I just tell them I have a headache and am going to go lay down for a while. No need to explain how it's all too much for me, etc. If I'm feeling particularly uncomfortable sitting in a room talking with someone I just met that my husband brought home, I'll make an excuse and go in another room, if I can do so politely without offending.


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13 Dec 2011, 3:30 pm

tarantella64 wrote:

NT family member tells AS person he's hurt her; AS person denies that she is hurt (by attempting to prove that she isn't hurt, by making her out to be ridiculous, or by denying that it was possible for him to have hurt her), is angry and/or complains of victimization, and makes the scene about himself, not the fact that the other person is hurt and some remedy is needed.


The above words by Tarantella64 match my mother exactly. This is exactly what she does. Aspergers disease is the only explanation for this behavior that i've ever come across. I don't know if Tarantella is stil active on this board, but I am forever grateful to her for putting this down in words.



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13 Dec 2011, 3:32 pm

DW_a_mom thank you for your kind words.



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13 Dec 2011, 3:32 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
It honestly didn't make that much of a difference to me. I'm in my late 40s and was only diagnosed a few years ago. Long before now, acting "normal" has become habit. I have no desire to change how I act just because I know my dx. It simply explains things to me about why I feel and think and act the way I do.

I don't feel that I, or anyone else, needs to do anything to accomodate my AS, because I've learned how to deal with it. I've learned how to handle different situations in a way that I'm comfortable, or at least not as uncomfortable, with. If I need some time alone when I'm at a family gathering because it's all too much out there with them, I just tell them I have a headache and am going to go lay down for a while. No need to explain how it's all too much for me, etc. If I'm feeling particularly uncomfortable sitting in a room talking with someone I just met that my husband brought home, I'll make an excuse and go in another room, if I can do so politely without offending.


I think it makes a difference to me, as a parent, and to my AS son, as I try to raise him, that we know what he needs and what he understands naturally v. what he does not.

Many AS individuals figure out the accommodations and adaptations on their own, but others don't, and struggle with it all their lives. Knowing, I would hope, helps reduce the odds of the later.

It has certainly helped my son as he gets asked to take on leadership roles, to recognize what his strengths and weaknesses are, and to know what he should be doing that may run against instinct. And the fascinating thing to me is that he, as a quirky and unsocial kid, who easily puts his foot deep into his mouth, IS getting asked to take on leadership roles. And succeeding in them.


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13 Dec 2011, 3:37 pm

I meant for me, mine needs no accomodations. Knowing for me, finding out now, doesn't really change anything for anyone except for me, and it's great that I know. I wasn't talking about not needing to know about kids. It certainly helps to know if a kid has it. When I was little, there was no such thing as AS that they knew of. Of course knowing about a childs will help the parent and the child. I don't know if it would have been better or worse if I had known as a child. I might have thought there was nothing I could do to change anything, and not tried. Then again, mine is mild.

Either way, things worked out good in the end for me. :-)


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13 Dec 2011, 4:05 pm

BriarRose wrote:
DW_a_mom thank you for your kind words.


You are welcome.

Looks like you had second thoughts about sharing so much. I have to run for now, but we can talk about that, too, if it helps.


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25 Dec 2011, 4:11 pm

Hi, I just found this forum online... I suspect my mother may be undiagnosed AS. She has many of the same characteristics I've been reading about here, but it's hard to tell if she's ill or something else. Well, the funny (?) thing is that she is ill, quite ill actually, with Multiple Sclerosis, and I think her situation has allowed her to mask some of her behaviors and allowed others to brush off her inappropriate behavior as the result of the MS and not AS.

However, I suffered from her extremely cold parenting. Things like acting embarrassed whenever I did something out of the ordinary (which happened a lot; I started as quite an exurberant little kid); more than anything, she demanded that we "fit in" and "act normal" which meant being quiet, not asking questions and definitely not dancing around the house. Things like the time I came home crying from the playground because I was getting picked on and she took to analyzing why they had picked on me, clearly you'd done something wrong, etc. Things like telling others what a good baby I was because I slept 20 hours a day. She apparently loved that I didn't demand much and she could just sit in her easy chair and watch TV. This was all while her MS was in remission, btw. As an adult, it's been very confusing to deal with all of this, and also deal with everyone telling me what a saint my mother is because she never complains about her illness or situation. No, but she complains about everything else and doesn't care about anyone else. When I called her a few years ago to tell her I eloped with my boyfriend, she said Congratuations... let me tell you about thsi framed autographed picture of Tom Brady I received in the mail! and then we talked about that for five minutes. Good times.

I have definitely grappled with the consequences of having such an uncaring parent, often not well. Though I seem to have fared better than my siblings: my sister, the people pleaser that Mom continues to demand things from and abuse, or my brother the recently divorced recovering drug addict still working his way out of bankruptcy. I distanced myself from her even as a child, somehow learning early on that she just wasn't that into me.

Like I said, it's not clear whether she's an aspie or not, but I do have an aspie nephew, and she was acting this way before she was ill. So much of what I read here seems relevant, things like intolerance to loud noise and not waiting to 'impose' on anyone with something like a special order; oh yes, I know all about that, as well. Thank you for listening, and happy holidays.



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27 Dec 2011, 3:44 pm

magpie02141 wrote:
Hi, I just found this forum online... I suspect my mother may be undiagnosed AS. She has many of the same characteristics I've been reading about here, but it's hard to tell if she's ill or something else. Well, the funny (?) thing is that she is ill, quite ill actually, with Multiple Sclerosis, and I think her situation has allowed her to mask some of her behaviors and allowed others to brush off her inappropriate behavior as the result of the MS and not AS.

However, I suffered from her extremely cold parenting. Things like acting embarrassed whenever I did something out of the ordinary (which happened a lot; I started as quite an exurberant little kid); more than anything, she demanded that we "fit in" and "act normal" which meant being quiet, not asking questions and definitely not dancing around the house. Things like the time I came home crying from the playground because I was getting picked on and she took to analyzing why they had picked on me, clearly you'd done something wrong, etc. Things like telling others what a good baby I was because I slept 20 hours a day. She apparently loved that I didn't demand much and she could just sit in her easy chair and watch TV. This was all while her MS was in remission, btw. As an adult, it's been very confusing to deal with all of this, and also deal with everyone telling me what a saint my mother is because she never complains about her illness or situation. No, but she complains about everything else and doesn't care about anyone else. When I called her a few years ago to tell her I eloped with my boyfriend, she said Congratuations... let me tell you about thsi framed autographed picture of Tom Brady I received in the mail! and then we talked about that for five minutes. Good times.

I have definitely grappled with the consequences of having such an uncaring parent, often not well. Though I seem to have fared better than my siblings: my sister, the people pleaser that Mom continues to demand things from and abuse, or my brother the recently divorced recovering drug addict still working his way out of bankruptcy. I distanced myself from her even as a child, somehow learning early on that she just wasn't that into me.

Like I said, it's not clear whether she's an aspie or not, but I do have an aspie nephew, and she was acting this way before she was ill. So much of what I read here seems relevant, things like intolerance to loud noise and not waiting to 'impose' on anyone with something like a special order; oh yes, I know all about that, as well. Thank you for listening, and happy holidays.




None of it sounds like AS but at least you knowledge you are still unsure if she has it or not. Lot of people blame victims for the bullying they get. Also sometimes people arne't trying to blame the victim, sometimes they are just trying to help you by telling you what you are doing that is giving them a reason to pick on you so you wouldn't do that anymore and kids would stop picking on you. Lot of kids who are being picked on will try and avoid being picked on by putting on an act or hiding from them. Sometimes parents will tell their kids to not tell anyone this or that about them or they will get teased. I don't see that as blaming the victim because it's protecting them from being a victim just like telling someone to lock their car or their home so no one will go in and steal.

Also what's wrong with her saying you were a good baby because you slept 20 hours a day nor demanding much?

There are also none aspie parents out there who are the same way as your mother. I have noticed that lot of people seem to assume that someone who is cold or uncaring equals AS but that isn't always the case. There is more to AS than that. Aspies do act cold and uncaring but it's mostly unintentional because they don't realize they are coming off that way. Due to different thinking, they may be caring for someone and not realize they are appearing cold to that person or uncaring and I think that is what it means they have a hard time with social reciprocity. If an aspie acts intentionally cold and doesn't care about someone, that isn't AS. Even if an NT does display this symptom, it doesn't always mean they have AS because there are other components they need to have to have it (look at the DSM-IV criteria). Lot of people have an aspie trait, one or two. I can imagine they must be misunderstood too and they have no explanation why they are that way. Some people might put up with it saying that is just them.



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27 Dec 2011, 11:47 pm

magpie02141 wrote:
So much of what I read here seems relevant, things like intolerance to loud noise and not waiting to 'impose' on anyone with something like a special order; oh yes, I know all about that, as well. Thank you for listening, and happy holidays.


I think this is what this thread does, it gives people a sense they aren't alone.

For most people who find this thread, an answer as to if a parent is really AS or not will never be found. And maybe that isn't what the discussion is really about, anyway.

Hope you had a nice holiday and can find some peace with your mom.


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