Flu vaccines for kids

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I read someone's post (here) and she said a baby can't get the vaccine so the only way (for the baby) to be protected is through the mother having the vaccine while pregnant. Hmm. That makes me think. I will ask at the next appt and see what my doctor thinks. At my next appt this week, I will be 18 days from my due date. I really don't know what to do. It just became available today at county health clinics in SF, I will see if my doctor's office will be getting any.

CanadianRose I commend your passion about trying to convince people to get vaccinated for H1N1 because I agree that it makes sense. However, I don't think you're going to change anybody's mind with statements like:

In fact, inflammatory statements might actually provide people who are unsure about getting vaccinated another reason not to.

I actually don't believe everything the "government" tells me (especially the nincompoops who hold office in my province ). I get my information from the World Health Organization and the Center for Disease Control. These organizations are not "the government" - although the government will often consult with them before making policy.

I don't believe the "government" outright. I also don't dismiss them outright either (as you appear to do).

BTW - congratulations on the 800th post.

I appreciate your sensitivity.

I suppose I am sick to death of pseudoscience and nonsense. My comment (which I put into bold) was more to people who find unsubstantiated information (even if it is scientific fallacy).

I'll put it into perspective. I attended a workshop run by my local government health board. It was for nurses and other health care workers. A registered nurse was giving a presentation on healing touch. She was demonstrating the movements and explaining the concept of "universal energy". I asked if there was any empirical evidence from a reputable, peer reviewed journal that showed that this therapy actually worked. She seemed baffled by my question. I asked again and stated that I had read a recent article where there was no evidence that a "trained' practitioner of energy medicine" was any more effective than untrained, but caring people waving their hands over someone in a random fashion. She dismissed me rudely and said, "I have seen it work, so it works" This twit was had a bachelor of science degree in nursing. I told her that her degree should be revoked as she didn't seem to have a clue what "science" meant. Yeah, I can be a bit on the acrid side - but for the love of all things rational - I was the only friggin nurse in the room who was suggesting that the emperor had no clothes!! This twit charges $75 per hour to wave her hands over the gullible and people just nod and think - well we have to keep an open mind!! I am all for an open mind - but it is not so "open" that my brains fall out!

Another time, a nurse I work with (who as an advanced degree) was discussing an e-mail she received stating that there was repeated incidents of people approaching women at Walmart and offering to sell them perfume. They would hand them a paper stick and have them sample the perfume. But the sample had ETHER on it and the poor woman would be kidnapped and assaulted. I listened to this otherwise intelligent woman go on about what is coming of the world. I asked her if she had ever used ether in practice. She said no. I suggested that ether was way to volatile to be used in this way. The ether would have just evaporated. She repeated that several of her friends had received this and heard about it. Again, for the love of all things rational - this is an intelligent woman who just isn't using critical thinking skills.

As for my crack about using crystals along with the salt water to combat the flu - I was responding to the lack of critical thinking skills in believing that this is effective. My own husband (who has a physics degree) received the e-mail from his mother regarding gargling with salt water and swabbing one's nose to kill the flu virus before it takes hold He thought it sounded reasonable and showed it to me. I noted that the information was not dated, the Dr. who supposedly gave the info had no information about where he practiced and the information was just plain wrong. Again, he was not using critical thinking and just took utter nonsense at face value.

I'm tired of sitting back and being quite, having a "well, people will believe what they want" attitude. Opinions are diverse. But facts are facts. If one wants to disagree with my opinion - that's cool. But if someone is stating a a factual untruth - then, like I stated before - I'll be the first to say "The Emperor has no clothes..."

My reply to your original post was not because of what you said, it was because you were being judgemental and unfair. You don't motivate people by calling them selfish, and making accusations that are not necessarily true about people you don't know. People are entitled to their opinions and what they believe. You could have encouraged people to check your resources without having to go there. Someone on here was very nice and sent me a link to information about my concerns. They didn't accuse me of using "crystals" and pretty much calling me an idiot. The salt water thing may not work, but it does kill bacteria that could potentially cause an infection and it could be helpful in addition to regular precautions like washing your hands and not coughing on people. There are many things you can do to prevent getting sick and that was my point, not to illustrate my apparently inferior thinking skills. Vaccines may be pretty much safe, but they are not without their risks, and people have every right to make their own decision without being judged by the decision that they make. I'm not sure anything you say is worth listening to after all of this.

Wow, it sounds like I've wandered into PPR ...

I know this is a rough topic, very emotional on all sides, and while we can all be more careful in choosing our words, I think its important to talk about - or battle out, if it comes to that - because as parents this is a very important decision and we all need to make sure that we are doing our best by our kids.

Here is the reality I've seen:

The number of deaths from H1N1 among children are growing. It takes hold fast and runs unpredictably. Your child may seem to be coping with it just fine, and suddenly turn, and at that turn it may be too late to provide the medicines that can stop the virus. Result: children die. I don't have the latest numbers in front of me, but they crop up regularly on my news page and shouldn't be too hard to find. I believe the number is nearing 100 in the US, if memory serves me correctly.

The number of deaths or even extreme complications from the vaccine in the US to date: none. If they exist, they aren't hitting the news page, and I don't think there is any conspiracy there holding the information back. The single death in the UK that occurred shortly after vaccination has been widely reported even though the connection is inconclusive.

Lets see, speaking of the US alone, 100 or so known deaths (if I remember the number correctly) v. theories on why the vaccine might not be safe but no documented injuries from it ... where does the risk lie? Tell me if I'm missing something here, if there are outcomes I've missed or numbers I'm way off on, because despite my gut level hesitation on vaccination (where does it come from?) I'm finding the numbers pretty startling.

If you practice good hygiene, (i.e. washing hands right away after EVERY time you leave the house) you should be safe from any kind of virus. If you're out in public, don't touch your eyes, nose, or mouth. Wash hands before eating. Get enough rest, eat healthy, get exercise. You'll be FINE!

I've been washing my hands religiously since I was 5 years old, and have only been sick maybe 3 times since. Alcohol-based hand sanitizers are a godsend, and I would never leave the house without a little bottle. Keep one in the car.

gramirez: how do you expect me to explain my 5 year old son to avoid touching anything in his daycare? and pardon me but isn't it rather unreasonable/pompous to tell people that you can guarantee their saftey based on your own case (not to mention that your advices are rather simple and vague). even gov and who do recommendations not guarantees.

No one ever said you shouldn't touch anything. That's ridiculous. However, if you do touch things that have been recently used by others, especially those who are/have been sick, you should wash your hands before you eat or touch your eyes/nose/mouth. THAT is not hard to do, and certainly a 5 year old could do it. Believe it or not, it is possible to take care of yourself without putting yourself into a plastic bubble. The government, WHO, and CDC all recommend you wash your hands frequently. No one is guaranteeing your health, but you'll realize that a little goes a long way in terms of prevention.

I border on the obsessive compulsive with all these things and, yet, I have been sick now with a cold and horrible cough for 4 weeks straight. It is simply impossible to wash away every contact, no matter how hard you try. And what the kids bring home ... am I to wash after touching any surface in my own home? Actually, I practically do (a little obsessive/compulsive, like I said). But, I know a family who is rarely sick and does none of the above, and they shout from the mountain tops that people who take your position are absolutely nuts, and the opposite is true (exposure yourself to everything, make that immune system work!). Reality is that all you've done is changed the odds a bit, and genetics or pure luck is doing the rest. You can NOT say you'll be "fine" just because you've followed good mitigation practices. You can only say that you've improved your odds.

Someone pm'd me an article about side effects that have occurred, and I will probably link that here. For now, I've got to run, so I'm holding a place. I said I wanted to hear the statistics, right?

This is the article, I have no idea on the reliability of the source, and I note that in it being a few months old some things may have changed:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... erica.html

The member who sent me the pm also noted that there had been a case of the GBS side effect in her local newspaper.

No vaccine is without risk.

But I am still seeing some pretty stark numbers. That article references 25 US deaths in 1976 from flu vaccine side effects, in what was considered a vaccination debacle. That number pales in comparison to the known swine flu deaths in US this round, and we can hope they learned something in how to make the vaccine safer and what to watch for.

I wish I had time to research more numbers, but I don't. The numbers always tell the story, and at this point even the member who sent me the above link is seeing a story in the volume of US deaths reported and is reconsidering vaccination (I wouldn't normally reveal anything from a pm so this is more than the member is comfortable with I'll edit).

We can't yell or scare each other into taking specific positions on this. We have to reply with facts. Find them, study them.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 31 Oct 2009, 2:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

As far as kids bringing home things from school goes, kids should wash their hands right when they get home from school. My mother made that as a rule, which quickly became instinctual whenever I return home after being out some place. Yes, surfaces in your home also carry germs. You should regularly (once a week perhaps?) sanitize surfaces in your home that are used a lot, such as the telephone and remote control. That is not to say that you should be following everyone with a spray bottle in hand. You are right in that there is no guarantee that you won't get sick. However, it certainly reduces your risk for getting sick, along with eating healthy, exercising, and getting enough rest (probably the most important is rest!)

Gov. Paterson just declared a state of emergency in NY state. There have been 75 H1N1 related deaths in NY since April and 3 occured just last week. H1N1 has been very widespread in my county, according to our pediatrician. Local school districts have been reporting a 20% average absentee rate over the last several days.

I also prefer to focus on prevention. As a family, we all wash our hands and surfaces frequently. We (at least the kids) eat well balanced diets and get plenty of sleep. I have hand sanitizer in every bedroom, in the kitchen, in the car, in my bag, etc., but even still, kids are walking petri dishes. We tend to come down with something 3 or 4 times/year. It happens. Just one uncovered sneeze in a classroom or supermarket has the potential to infect many. This flu is unlike others in the way it disproportionately affects the young and otherwise healthy. I'm still uneasy about the vaccine, but I've decided that I am more uneasy about the idea of choosing not to reduce their risk.

I see a little irony here. We're discussing all this on an AS forum and one topic we've seen here often is just how difficult it can be to get some of our AS kids to wash their hands. This remains, after all these years and a ton of trying every trick in the book, a MAJOR issue with my 12 year old AS son. Something inside him wants nothing to do with a sink, water and soap, and this is no minor resistance. So, deal with meltdowns over the issue, or understand he's a filthy mess even though he does now do a lip service amount of washing at my insistence? Balancing life is SO fun

It all comes down to know your lifestyle, and know its risks. There are no one size fits all answers. We ALL know that.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... demic.aspx

I just got this today. It has some numbers that could be checked out.

Dr. Mercola is good. He's located right here in my hometown. He's a voice of reason.