All the 'special diets'
wanted to add - I did a research paper in college where a group of Amish had a strange disorder where apparent healthy babies by the age of two because completely mentally impaired, and most died early. A doctor studied it and found that a large number of Amish in Lancaster, PA have problems processing a milk protein and having milk destroys the brain.
I have that tucked in my head - what if Wheat or Dairy is attacking my son's brain? don't I owe it to him to check it out - even if that possibility is remote?
I, personally, think the diet questions are a whole other world from chelation and vaccine concerns. What many of us are fining is that our kids DO have food sensitivities of one sort or another and, of course, dealing with that helps behavior. Has the child been cured of AS? NO. He's been cured of a food sensitivity.
The difficult part is that this was brought into focus by some curabies latching onto the GFCF system, and discovering it helped (mistranslated to cure). But how it got brought into focus is less important than the reminder: if your child has trouble coping already, adding diet problems can add a thick layer of severity. Get rid of the food problem, and your child will do better.
Every child deserves to feel well.
I work with a man, completely NT, who has a huge list of food allergies. I asked him one day how he had found out about them. It was a long, long road for him, because he grew up with parents who didn't believe there were such things (at least not in a child not breaking out head to toe hives), so he spent his entire childhood feeling very sick. With no one believing him. An entirely verbal child expressing his desire to feel better, and no one ever listening. As an adult, he sought answers, and got his life back.
The main problem I have with GFCF is that by itself it is not an answer, and could actually be very wrong for the one unique child. As I've noted before, my son has turned out to be sensitive to soy, something we figured out almost by accident, and GFCF tends to involve an increase in the use of soy products. With soy sensitivity being a very common issue, parents who don't know to split the hairs on this question, and look at their child as a unique individual, may actually be creating the opposite result of what they are looking for.
Awareness that an AS child may have food issues is, I think, a good thing. Cassien, gluten, and soy are all common ingredients that some kids will do better without. Very, very few to be GFCF; it tends to be one, not both, that is the issue. Over applying a concept, and expecting it to do things it will not, however - that is the bad thing. On this forum we've been striving to get parents to understand why some families see improvement, and figure out how to decide what road is best for them. There isn't a black and white line here, and trying to draw one increases the divisions between the groups of parents, instead of drawing them together. I know there are strident parents advocating this diet who don't want to split the hairs on who it really works for, and we may never cross bridges with them, but that doesn't mean the conversation shouldn't continue. Here, anyway.
I do not, btw, think food issues are any more prevalent in the AS population. Just, maybe, with all the other sensitivities and issues the child is likely to have, they may be more devastating. In my family, it is my more or less NT daughter that I want to start food experiments with; it is insane how many mornings she wakes up with a tummy ache. So, we taking notes. We're talking. We may go find a specialist. That process is a lot easier with an NT child than an AS child who may have trouble communicating, or who may not realize that communicating his tummy ache is a priority, or something he should be doing. So, parents with AS kids do need to look.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
It's like taking a brain drug away from the child and without it, their brain works more normally, the way it should.
How is this being intolerant? I guess, for me, while I don't expect any miracles, and I really think there's like less than 5% chance he has an issue with gluten, but WHAT IF? What if taking him off wheat and other things with gluten helps his brain? What does it hurt to try? If it works, I'll be so happy. If it works, I ask myself, why didn't I or anyone else suspect this earlier? if it doesn't work (as I suspect it won't) I can say, "well at least I ruled that out and I won't have that tiny bit of doubt int he back of my head."
I don't think you're being intolerant at all. I think it's a good thing to give things a shot. I just don't like that people expect a miracle. It doesn't sound like what you're doing.
As far as me looking at it differently than intended - very likely. I have a horrid habit of misinterpreting things. Sorry for this.
I totally agree with what you're saying about food sensitivities. I find here that GFCF seems to be like a gateway drug if you will. It's what many parents start with prior to beginning the twisting strange path of alternative treatments. All of them also believe the vaccine hype. It might be where I live and the population I've been able to connect with.
Every child deserves to feel well.
I work with a man, completely NT, who has a huge list of food allergies. I asked him one day how he had found out about them. It was a long, long road for him, because he grew up with parents who didn't believe there were such things (at least not in a child not breaking out head to toe hives), so he spent his entire childhood feeling very sick. With no one believing him. An entirely verbal child expressing his desire to feel better, and no one ever listening. As an adult, he sought answers, and got his life back.
The main problem I have with GFCF is that by itself it is not an answer, and could actually be very wrong for the one unique child. As I've noted before, my son has turned out to be sensitive to soy, something we figured out almost by accident, and GFCF tends to involve an increase in the use of soy products. With soy sensitivity being a very common issue, parents who don't know to split the hairs on this question, and look at their child as a unique individual, may actually be creating the opposite result of what they are looking for.
Awareness that an AS child may have food issues is, I think, a good thing. Cassien, gluten, and soy are all common ingredients that some kids will do better without. Very, very few to be GFCF; it tends to be one, not both, that is the issue. Over applying a concept, and expecting it to do things it will not, however - that is the bad thing. On this forum we've been striving to get parents to understand why some families see improvement, and figure out how to decide what road is best for them. There isn't a black and white line here, and trying to draw one increases the divisions between the groups of parents, instead of drawing them together. I know there are strident parents advocating this diet who don't want to split the hairs on who it really works for, and we may never cross bridges with them, but that doesn't mean the conversation shouldn't continue. Here, anyway.
I do not, btw, think food issues are any more prevalent in the AS population. Just, maybe, with all the other sensitivities and issues the child is likely to have, they may be more devastating. In my family, it is my more or less NT daughter that I want to start food experiments with; it is insane how many mornings she wakes up with a tummy ache. So, we taking notes. We're talking. We may go find a specialist. That process is a lot easier with an NT child than an AS child who may have trouble communicating, or who may not realize that communicating his tummy ache is a priority, or something he should be doing. So, parents with AS kids do need to look.
I agree, I think it's important to discuss everything. I guess this is just a sore spot with me. We can't seem to fit in anywhere right now. Every time I meet another parent with an AS child in this area "biomedical intervention" and "GFCF" become part of the conversation within the first 15 minutes. It irritates me to no end.
I think I took this very personally. Sorry about that.
I think I took this very personally. Sorry about that.
I think the people around here in real life are probably similar. I just don't talk to them about it We talk around all that, maybe I'll ask what kinds of sensory issues they've had to deal with, how does that child like to self-calm, and so on. I usually tell them they should check out the Wrong Planet, that I've felt I've learned so much from the adults here ... I think I don't really want to know if people that I like in real life are doing things I think are crazy. Just avoid that whole conversation ... my way of coping, maybe?
And maybe they'll get a little sales pitch from me, for all the times I can say, "oh, my son used to do that! But he doesn't anymore. No, no miracle drugs or treatments; we've worked super hard on understanding him, and adapting his world, and he's been thriving!" or, "my son still does that; it's a self-calming mechanism, I see no reason to squash it, for as long as I let him do that, we don't get any meltdowns." They can take from that sort of statement whatever they want, but maybe they'll slowly figure out that some of the interventions didn't really do anything at all, if I could get the same result without them.
Don't worry about taking things wrong. The thing is to keep talking; work through it; figure out what everyone meant and what the common ground is. You do that; you're good.
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
I totally agree with what you're saying about food sensitivities. I find here that GFCF seems to be like a gateway drug if you will. It's what many parents start with prior to beginning the twisting strange path of alternative treatments. All of them also believe the vaccine hype. It might be where I live and the population I've been able to connect with.
One of the reasons I am very wary of the food limitation route is that in my experience, it tends to snowball. First you take away one food. Things seem better. Then something goes wrong. You scan the diet furiously for the culprit. Often you wind up taking away another food. Every unwanted behavior gets attributed to the wrong thing having been eaten and the diet gets more and more restricted. This doesn't necessarily happen to everyone, but it does happen quite a lot.
_________________
Sharing the spectrum with my awesome daughter.
Not sure what you include in "food issues" here.
But a recent study found that a subset, 36.7% to be precise, of a significant sample of children diagnosed with autism have what has been called "leaky gut", compared to 4.8% of the general population.
ie. more food opioid peptides, present in both gluten and casein, ( not just one of them ), are going to enter the bloodstream directly and reach the brain in that subset of people on the spectrum, ( more than a third of autists ), than in the general population.
Not only that, but that study and another one show that the gut/intestines are particularly leaky in the presence of gluten and casein, ( food opioid sources ), because of the effect that gluten has on the production of zonulin, which triggers intestinal cells to relax their "tight junctions" ( not sure about casein ).
This is quite a good article/blog piece on it by a psychiatrist:
http://evolutionarypsychiatry.blogspot. ... ism-1.html
This is the study "Alterations of the intestinal barrier in patients with autism spectrum disorders and in their first-degree relatives":
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20683204
Which concludes:
NB. IPT = intestinal permeability.
Something particularly interesting is that "leaky gut"/higher IPT does not seem to be correlated with either celiac disease, ( as diagnosed by Ig tests or biopsy ), nor with GI symptoms. ie. there is no "big sign" ( of that sort ) to tell you that whenever you eat dairy and wheat/gluten your intestines are allowing opioid peptides to enter your bloodstream and reach your brain, ( significantly more than most/other people's intestines allow anyway ) ... ... ... except something to do with the opioids themselves, which is addiction; dependency on and cravings for foods with gluten and casein in them.
PS. This is a separate issue from celiac, crohns, IBS, and other chronic gastrointestinal problems, irritation/inflammation, etc, found in an increasingly large percentage of the population, ( an increase which may have something to do with the massive rise in fructose consumption ), and which obviously affects general functioning, peace of mind, etc, whether on the spectrum or not, aswell as often resulting in reduced absorption of important minerals and vitamins which impact on mental and physical health.
Edit. PS. Rereading the thread I see that I have now referred to this new study on increased intestinal permeability in a subset of people on the autism spectrum three times! But perhaps my earlier quotes/explanations were not very clear and that is why the information appears to have passed unnoticed.
.
Last edited by ouinon on 22 Oct 2010, 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Agreed, and I think this may have something to do with the fact that many of the parents of AS children are on or near the spectrum themselves, and prone to obsessive compulsive, perfectionist, black and white and over-meticulous reactions and interpretations particularly once they get interested in something.
I do it myself. :lol With myself. My son often copies my restrictions, ( he is gf anyway because of celiac ), but so far only with sugar and dairy, ( and dairy-free only for short periods ).
I do think that it could be a serious mistake for vegan/vegetarian families to try a dietary approach unless they are ready and willing to consider reintroducing some meat ( or fish ), because the restrictions, especially of dairy, could become dangerous.
But the benefits of excluding food opioids from the diet can be so dramatic that even a somewhat obsessively restrictive diet can still be very worthwhile.
.
According to the blog "EvolutionaryPsychiatry" which I linked above, you can get tested for Intestinal Permeability, which is what matters with respect to food opioid consumption/exposure/effects, ( not whether are celiac or gluten intolerant or have other food sensitivities ).
I have no idea where or by whom though. I'll ask on GFAB, ( http://www.glutenfreeandbeyond.org/forum/ ), the gf forum I belong to, if anyone there knows.
I found this at About.com:
* Malabsorption, which can cause nutritional deficiency
* Increased permeability and weakness of the intestinal lining barrier, which can cause toxins and larger molecules to enter the bloodstream and lymph circulation. Once in the bloodstream, the immune system attacks these unwanted substances and it also increases the load on the body's detox system.
Health conditions this test is used to assess:
This test is often done in patients with nutritional deficiency, chronic digestive disorders, food allergy, arthritis, inflammatory bowel disease, and other inflammatory conditions.
What this test involves
To perform the test, the patient fasts overnight, then drinks a mixture of lactulose and mannitol. The patient then collects urine for the next 6 hours.
NB. GF diet is only expensive if attempt to replace all wheat /glutenous products with gf versions. It's cheaper to simply eat more rice, potatoes, and oats if tolerated.
You say that you are "not sure" if your "son who basically only eats gluten foods would 'deal' with not having bread/wheat products" ... And yet it is exactly that potentially difficult reaction which you can expect if he does belong to the subset ( 36.7% ) of people on the autism spectrum with a "leaky gut" and is addicted to the opioids in bread, milk, etc. He may go through a period of withdrawal exactly like an alcoholic deprived of alcohol.
.
Ouinon, interesting points on the leaky gut; new stuff is coming out all the time, and maybe I've fallen behind (it's not one of my special interests). This is tricky because the whole concept of "gut" issues gets connected to Wakefield, and anything connected to Wakefield is suspect. The first time I heard the term I assumed it was just more quack science, but I've known you long enough to believe that you don't fall prey to quack science that easily. I'm not really ready to go research it all, or completely give up my suspect, but I'll try to be more nuanced in how I respond to the idea.
And ... you know, my NT daughter is really having stomach and mood problems. Both my kids have to go through regular rounds of constipation medicine. Something is going on, isn't it? One more for the list for the pediatrician ...
_________________
Mom to an amazing young adult AS son, plus an also amazing non-AS daughter. Most likely part of the "Broader Autism Phenotype" (some traits).
It's fairly new info, ( study only came out in April ), so pretty new to me too, and it's taking me time to fully digest and absorb and integrate it into my "body of knowledge", such that I often either completely forget to include it in my posts about diet, or, as here, end up repeating myself.
I agree; the term/concept of a "leaky gut" has unfortunately become tainted, "suspicious" as you say, as a result of Wakefield's at best biased/"poor" science and at worst deliberate manipulation of data in connection with it. But "leaky gut" as such is a bona-fide medical condition, often tested for in the context of GI problems etc, ( as the above quote from About.com makes clear ), and this recent study does appear to have found that over a third ( of the large sample it looked at ) of children diagnosed as autistic have highly permeable intestines compared to just 4.8% of the population at large.
It does sound like it. Interesting. Good luck with that.
.
I try and keep my Autistic sons diet as free of additives and presevatives as I can. I limit any type of splenda,nutra sweet,all of those fake sweetners as I saw depression from them. Gluten free did nothing for him but using high fats in his earlier seizure years helped. Go figuire.
Update: Wow I can't believe it's been almost a year since I originally posted this! My daughter was diagnosed as Autistic in March/2010. We've moved to another province that has better funding for autism treatments and she's doing really well. She goes to a developemental pre-school in the mornings and we went with a SCERTS service provider in the afternoon.
After talking with our pediatrician we ended up putting our family on a whole foods organic diet. I didn't really see a change in her behavior, but I think it's a healthy choice for all of us.
Will maybe try the GFCF diet when she's older. But for now she's still a really good eater and I don't see any obvious digestive issues. Thanks for all the responses on this thread. Very interesting reading!
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