'bad' behaviour and reactions from Dad

Post Reply New Topic

I hear you. Sometimes I feel like I'm in the middle and they are both pulling opposite directions

Just an update -

I think that I'm gradually getting through. My h has been making a real effort to understand when I suggest ways to handle our son, and he's shown some real consideration lately for his anxieties about his health which has translated into a much happier boy and a rebuilding of their friendship - I'm so glad. A long way to go but we're moving forward.

Even glaciers move

Glad you are making progress. Stay patient!

It's been such long time and going so well . . . . . I was beginning to think hat some level of maturity was helping him, and my h to understand each other.

Yesterday was a meltdown.

My h and my son had one of their totally pointless screaming matches over nothing at all and my son did his normal storming off to calm down - good so far ? NOT. My h accused me of NEVER supporting him when our son is ALWAYS in the wrong ! H canot see that it's not about being right or wrong. So he's not speaking. Then my son came back downstairs and started up again screaming about how he's not going to run away from arguments any more, he;s going to stickup for himself and not be a wimp. I tried calmly to explain that screaming and yelling and saying horrible things to his father was not sticking up for himself, rather it was being unfairly abusive but he wasn't listening - of course he wasn't. He was still in meltdown and hadn't yet come down from that. I just stopped talking, walked away, left it. He stopped yelling, his father said nothing at all (thank goodness, at least he could see it was pointless by then).

Today we are all 3 walking around our house as if we are living in separate time zones. No-one is making eye contact, no-one is asking questions. Uneasy truce.

I don't know how to move on from here. I don't understand his frame of mind here. I don't think I've been unreasonable to either of them. I've tried always to stay right in the middle. Should I not ? I tried to protect them both from saying things that could never be taken back.

Any thoughts, strategies, please, would be appreciated.

magicmum

I don't know what I can do to help out, but I will point out that this is something I've just started to get a grasp of. I've heard before that people with Asperger's treat conversations as an exchange of information more than anything else, and reading your post I just now realized I treat arguments the same way. My thought process is this: "Well, since somebody is shouting and/or getting angry about _____, clearly _____ is important. If I'm correct about _____, I will explain why, and if not, I will cede the argument." It's a very difficult thing to process that while something may have triggered the argument, it may not really be what the argument is about (especially difficult to process while shouting is going on).

I'm sorry to hear that a meltdown happened, but keep in mind that there will be good days and bad days. This was a bad day, but that doesn't mean that no progress was made between then and the last meltdown (you just went a little downhill, but not backwards).

Thanks for your comments, anything is always a help.

I agree with you that for the Aspie (my son) it IS about an exchange of information. He tries to explain - by screaming and shouting - his point of view. And it seems black and white to him and he can't understand why my h doesn't understand. My h on the other hand just sees child shouting at him, being rude and nasty, and therefore in the WRONG. And so he stops trying to listen or understand. Catch 22.

And bunny me in the middle trying to stop WW3 gets the blame from both sides.

we'll gt back to where we were soon, we'll be OK again soon. I just get more tired and a little more sad.

Thanks

magicmum

Your son must be close to 18 now. Is he on a path toward living on his own, or is he likely to live with you for several more years? Maybe there will be less arguments once he and his father aren't under the same roof?

He is nearly 19, and he will be at home prob for a while. No job, no prospects on that front for the moment. He is trying to get the last few points for his education certificate this year, and he gets a little social security support money but not enough to go out and live on his own yet.

The maddening thing is they had been getting on SO well for such a long time - this was out of the blue, I was taken by surprise. I suppose that's good in some ways. But we are still in NO SPEAK land at the moment. Dad never backs down, he is never wrong. My son is just back to his normal self, the incident has gone for him. And I'm still here, in the middle - dealing with the fallout sickness.

I want them to be the friends I know they are, I know they can be.

magicmum

I know this doesn't help you at all right at the moment - but when our family has a big blow-up, the biggest healer is time. Everybody needs a chance to re-set.

Another thing we've talked about trying, but have never gotten around to - a family argument notebook. Each family member can write down their perspective in detail - as I'm writing, maybe a binder, so this doesn't have to happen by turns - and everyone reads and responds to what the others write. No talking.

Sounds like your DS and DH need a lesson in perspective-taking, and they can't do it while screaming. Sending emails may also work, but they can't get into ALL CAPS EMAIL SCREAMING MATCHES so handwriting may work better to prevent that (we tried texting once to see if it would work, but DS didn't communicate very well. You might want to set a word-count limit like Twitter, though.)

That would be brilliant - my son would prob do that easily in fact he is happy to discuss afterwards what happened. But my h is NOT a talker or a writer - he just doesn't, because he is RIGHT, everyone else is WRONG and he has nothing further to add. That's the maddening part. I love him with all my heart but he does this to all of our children - thing is the other 3 can cope with always being criticised, they just mock back and laugh about it and if any of them calls him on it he just says "oh for heaven's sakes I'm joking". After 40 years of me listening the jokes aren't funny any more. He can't see how belittling it is, and he can't see that for the youngest it MATTERS.

I agree about the time healing thing. We have gone through these periods of frost before and gradually it thaws and we are back to normal - but it's a sadder normal.

I'm going to walk through it all with my son again tomorrow to see if I can help him to avoid future confrontation. In many ways he is a lot more mature than his dad.

Maybe when we are defrosted we'll talk about an argument notebook - maybe I'm wrong.

Thanks for the feedback.

magicmum

I admit I still at times get "caught" in my daughter's meltdowns. If I see it coming, I make every attempt to move away from the action...but sometimes I'm simply trying to explain why something has to be a certain way...I'm generally calm about it, and things just escalate from there.

I like what dw said about helping him recognize a meltdown is near, or that her son does. I may try to work that into our household. I think it would really help. I also think it could be true that your son and husband are similar people. And I remember what it was like growing up with a dad who would literally "lose it". He still does from time to time at 72...and of course now I realize it's a spectrum thing. My mom and I had a conversation a few weeks ago about how similar my dad and daughter are. They are both prone to tantrums. My dad would have them whenever things at home or work were particularly stressful...a lot of it I realize now had to do with his no being able to manage finances....whenever that got stressful he had such a difficult time. I wish there had been a person then to come into our home and say, "Hey, your Dad has AS and these are the things he struggles with."

Anyway, good luck. I think a diagnosis could help. It has really helped my own mom to be a lot more understanding with my daughter...the whole family really, understands better that therre's something actually going on, and when she gets teary at family functions, or frustrated while we're playing a game...she just needs a bit of time, and she isn't trying to be difficult.

Good luck, mum.

One tip: one of the things I've tried saying to my husband (when he's calm) is: Do you want to be right, or do you want to solve the problem? That has successfully gotten his attention, because he really does want to solve the problem.

I suspect mine might answer "I am right, and it's not my problem"

But thanks, anything is worth trying.

Thanks bethaniej - I have come to believe over the years that my h probably has AS to some degree as well which has made his life difficult, but of course he has learned to live with it, and he will never accept that if I told him. He struggles to accept that our son is Aspie. He just thinks he's rude, lazy and wilful. *sigh* That's why I always try to work with my son who CAN accept what he is and how he can adapt to fit in with the world. every now and then these blow ups occur, and we deal with them. Learn and move on. I hope.

magicmum

Sorry coming into this late....Im in a surgery and rehabilitation hospital, right now they are decided if I need surgery or if the PT will just help. Considering my doctor said I only have three functional disks in my spine not counting the artificial one that they put in while I still lived in the US....its funny they have been doing that here for years and have found that it causes far worse problems than having the old fashioned fusion.....so, this has nothing to do with the subject but DO NOT have an artificial disk put in your back, even if it is a study and it is free. Ive mad my disease and problems far worse.

Anyway to the subject at hand. I agree you son needs self soothing techniques which is hard as you are coming in late in the game because he is already a teen and in the "I dont need that crap phase".
I would have your husband learn self calming techniques too and if he refuses you can give him a shock. My husband constantly berated my son who had Early Bi Polar disorder (not the same as aspergers but we believe he had aspergers as well and he did have meltdowns when he was younger....he learned to control them with all the therapy I managed to drag him too....ok most of the time it was court ordered. My son had a serious drug problem. Unfortunately when our kids cant handle life they start to self medicate. I have seen many young adults on here who admit to "control" there symptoms they use street drugs.
My son was clean for two years and living in a sober living house but one night after going off his BP meds he used heroin again and he forgot that he did not have the tolerance he once did. His best friend found him dead on her bathroom floor the next morning, he had been dead 5 hours at least.
Feel free to tell you husband this story because in my sons NA book he wrote that the thing that caused him the most pain was the fact that his he did not feel that his Dad loved him and his Dad never told him he was proud of him no matter how hard he tried. He would call him useless and stupid and even once told him he was no longer his son because he had to go back to jail again. He never took the time to understand my sons illness, he just called him names and hit him. To me, that man helped kill my son and I hope he wallows in guilt!

Oh my dear, I cannot begin to imagine your pain.

I had a long discussion with my son today and i felt his - tears come to him so quickly when he talks about how useless he feels, and how he goes into meltdown because when his dad tells him he has done something stupid he KNOWS it is because he is. And he is angry with himself for being so useless, not with his dad for knowing it. It is just tragic. I can see how easy it will be for him to turn to drugs - he already uses alcohol as a way to "lose" himself. To become the life of the party, to be friendly. He told me how alone he feels.

I have determined to talk to his father and tell him that he needs to make the effort to recognise that this IS a real condition - if he had diabetes would we give him sugar ? if he was epileptic would be put him in front of a strobe ? It;s no different. He needs to see that the WAY he says things and WHAT he says have a direct on our child.

Re the self soothing techniques - he has been doing really well with that - just taking himself away to his room and letting the anger subside. Coming back when it;'s gone and moving on, it works fine and has been. He is in many ways more of a grown up than his dad. In fact today he told me that he thought his dad was being childish by not speaking to us. Funny, sad funny.

Thank you for sharing your story. I will use it with your permission. I wish it wasn't there to use.

magicmum

Thank you, I wish it did not happen as well. Sorry about all the typos, I wrote that at night when I was tired. I just hope that my son's story could help someone else, he would want that too. He certainly never wanted to die but he knew ever time he used that he took that risk.
Sometimes emotional pain can be overwhelming especially with the disease's (BP and drug addiction) that my son had. When he was little he was like a little rubber ball and he always, even into his adult years, very impulsive and still very silly. I miss him very much. He was a very difficult child to raise but I always say he made me a good mother because after all I went through with him I can handle just about anything. My three with autism can be trying at times but nothing compared to some of the things that happened with my son.
I still have some panic attacks but I think I am more gentle and understanding with my kids and I think about them and how they feel and how something that we think is insignificant can be very painful and horrible for them to go through.