Neighbor of Autistic Child - Advice Please

Post Reply New Topic

Well, it may just be my sh***y parenting skills, but it's rare that I can go over to my non-verbal son and immediately see what's wrong, as you describe with the girl. Of course it's possible that the parents just aren't bothered to see what's the matter...but I think it's equally likely that actually have no idea what to do. And by the way, therapists rarely have that great insight with regards to challenging behaviour. So seeing an "expert" is not a magical solution either.

I know I'm not the parent, but I identify with the parent.... and I just don't know what you'd expect them to do, since I know I can't always make my kids be quiet (happy or otherwise), and since they have a non-verbal child like mone, I imagine they can't either.

I hope the child's okay too.

It's not your sh***y parenting skills, Holland. It is just what it is. A non-verbal child cannot always express what is wrong and assuming that she is screaming because she is distressed is a bit much.

And name-calling fellow posters and accusing them of being JERKS is another "wonderful" piece of "advise", and one that would ill-serve the OP, especially when some of these posters are actually WALKING THE TALK, and are better able to respond to the OP from the POV of the parents of the child in question. I seriously doubt that the child is left outside for hours on end, although it may seem like that to the neighbours. While I completely understand that the noise must be jarring and upsetting to people in the vicinity, it is still far better to have the child play in the garden, rather than be locked up in a room or a sound proof basement for the better part of the day, just because the neighbours are buggered about the noise,

If the parents are overwhelmed or stressed out (which is entirely possible), they may appreciate advise as to where they can get help with their daughter. But as a fellow parent of a child on the severe end of the spectrum, I would be very unhappy if someone called social services on me because my daughter was stimming in my garden, for what seemed to be the better part of the day to them !

If there was a magic bullet that they could have used to "fix" their child's vocal stims, I am sure that they would have done so already, in which case I would like to know their "secret", too. I am positive that the parents feel just as bad about their kid's loud stimming as you do, but as there is nothing they can really do about it, you may just want to drop the matter and move on, unless you are 200% sure that the child is being neglected and involve social services. Bear in mind, though, that if you do involve social services and they find nothing criminal going on, that you still have to live in the neighbourhood and still have to deal with these people on a daily basis. So, please cut them some slack and be glad that you have "normal" kids and are, therefore, able to live a "normal" life. Not everyone is afforded that opportunity (and I say this despite loving my son dearly with every single atom in my being).

I'm thinking that it's quite likely that "out in the garden" is a safe place for the child. It's home, the parents have removed any hazards, the child is 9 so they probably have a pretty good handle on what is safe for her, and perhaps she likes to hang out there. If she wandered in and out a lot it might seem like she was out most of the time. I certainly let my 4 yo NT kids play in our fenced backyard without me physically being out there.

I am disappointed in the number of us who identify with these mysterious parents of the girl and jump to assume the child is doing "vocal stimming" whatever the heck that is.

Maybe eventually you will realize that while you think you are helpless against "vocal stimming" you ARE doing things. I've read your posts and you do not describe sending your child out alone for hours as an ongoing childrearing tactic.

OP asked if the child was distressed, I think that's likely. Happiness seems like, well, happiness. But none of us here know anything for sure about this child, except that she seems to be alone an awful lot.

I remain lost as to all this identifying with parents we know nothing about and the assumption they are us. They did not post about their child, the neighbor did.

And the thing is, the parents don't seem to have said a thing about this to the OP and that strikes me as odd. WelcometoHolland make fun of me all you want, you bought earplugs and chocolate and wrote notes, you explained to your neighbors that your child is autistic and going through something which helped them understand and gave an opening for people to offer help and concern. If as a result of this someone had mentioned to you a resource you didn't know about, you'd likely have explored it. Not that much different than posting on WrongPlanet looking for ideas. And that's something we've all done.

Same to HisMom, rather than ranting at those of us daring to ask about the child or care about the OPs sanity and children's sleep, could you reflect on all that you do and how much you've explained about your child here? Pleas don't make fun of me (like using sarcasm at me) or accuse me of bad mouthing your parenting skills, I'm saying, you're not the same, either.

And Zette, I hope you're right. I really do. It's just, moms stressed by their kids, including me, tend to be worried and spill, it may annoy people, but we get ideas. These parents aren't spilling. And that doesn't seem good at all.

I've sent (or rather allowed) my daughter outside alone for hours as an ongoing child rearing tactic. She's verbal and engaged in echolalia rather than screaming (so avoided that whole issue) but she's very much an outdoorsy loner. When she was younger I sat outside with her for safety but as she got older (about 9, I can't remember the exact year) I went back inside and watched her from windows and the open door.

One neighbor asked what my daughter was talking about all the time. She had eavesdropped a bit and it didn't sound like talking to an imaginary friend and she was curious. I took that opportunity to explain autistic echolalia and she seemed satisfied with that answer.

A different neighbor (I'm guessing a different neighbor because the one who asked seemed just curious about echolalia) called the police. The cop came to my door with "I've had a report of a child alone and unattended for a length of time". I explained her autism to the cop and showed him my setup where she was alone but not unattended because I could see her from windows and the door at all times. By an extraordinary stroke of luck, he had an autistic nephew and had witnessed the exact same behaviour himself.

I am sure that this neighbor thought they had just saved a kid from neglect. But she was never neglected. I didn't "send" her into the yard all the time. That's what she wanted. And she didn't want me in her face all the time interacting with her. She got quite enough of that at school and the minute she got home from school- starting from when she was old enough to go to school-she headed for the yard to wind down from all that interaction. When weather is cold/wet I put a 30 minute cap on how long she is allowed out. But in good weather there is no cap at all (except bath and bedtime, I just realized some people will think she stays out all night). She can stay out as long as she wants. I join her outside sometimes because I like it too but I don't need it quite as much as her so she is often alone. The cop has not been back so I guess it's a non-issue now.

Thank you, that's a wonderful example of what I wanted to convey. I love how you describe that your child talks a lot, no screaming, and how that might have seemed strange, but that you are considering what it is your child wants and accommodating that. I'm guessing, too, that you have your child in for dinner, and not quite sure this child OP posted about takes breaks with family for meals.

And yes, people can get overly intrusive and call police and social services unnecessarily. And we have some nasty neighbors who've called police on us and other neighbors and it's scary and unpleasant. I get that. But these parents seem to have made no effort to explain to OP what's going on. That's different from most of us. OP expressed her concerns and needs. I don't think she is wrong for doing so.

Hi OP. Please ignore all of the negative posts - being an autism parent can sometimes be really difficult, and it's hard not to get defensive. And that's what the ranting on here is usually about.

As for your question. As a neighbor, you do have the right to make friendly requests of your neighbors. They may not know that you have young kids, what their bedtimes are, or that the noise is keeping them awake. So, I would definitely talk to them. I'd say something to the effect of, "your daughter seems lovely, and I look forward to getting to know you all better. I do have one concern, though. I have 9 months old twins (??) and they go to sleep at 7. If it is at all possible, an hour of quiet time would really help. I know that this may not work for you, at least not all the time, but I thought I'd ask because they have been having a really difficult time with sleeping. Thanks for thinking about it, and let me know if there is anything I can do on my end that would be helpful to you."

They may get pissy; they may not. They may be able to accommodate you or they may not. But it it a reasonable request, and making it respectfully does not make you a jerk of a neighbor. Don't let anyone on here tell you otherwise.

I don't think that is true. A number of us explained what stimming is. Did we go into everything? No, because I am sure someone could (or has) written a dissertation on stimming.

The OP was mainly concerned about her own kids getting sleep, and while there was an undertone of "I don't know if this child is being treated appropriately" it was not the main point of the post. Because of the fact that this was an undertone as opposed to an explicit statement it is easy for those of us who don't focus on undercurrents to assume that b/c it was not listed as a primary concern that this meant that it was not a social services level concern. That does not mean the child is treated well, but as a neighbor, there really is not anything the OP can do about sub-optimal (but non-abusive) care.

I don't think the OP is wrong for not wanting her kids to be able to sleep in peace, and have quiet. We went through that ourselves when we lived in an apartment. There would be pool parties and that would be loud, and would make it hard for our son to sleep. When they violated the rules, we reported it to management. When they were within the time limits we let it be, because there was no point.

Some of us tend to be pragmatic when we post. It does not mean we lack empathy when we fail to post a few sentences of "I understand why you are upset..." type content. I could try to focus more on that, I suppose.

I suggest introducing yourself to your neighbour if you haven't already done so first and try to just talked to each other. Ask how many kids you each have, have they always lived in your town, basic intro neighbour conversation. They will reveal what they are comfortable with and you might actually find them to be pretty nice people. By approaching them with only the intent of discussing their daughter as a problem it has more chances of backfiring. This way you get to know them first and then discuss things more personal on a later date. In the mean time, turn on the A/C if you have it for now and turn on ambient sounds to help block outside noise like fans.

I'm sure the OP is capable of deciding for herself how to process the information and opinions offered here. There's no need to be condescending and dismissive. No one here is "ranting".

YippySkippy - go pick a fight with someone else.

Waterfalls wasn't referring to parents here not explaining things, but the parents of the child in the garden not having explained things to the neighbours who are inevitably going to be affected by the noise of their child in the garden all day.

This has been quite a tense thread, I feel.

The OP did list three questions at the start of this thread,

"1) What does this loud constant screaming signify? Is it happiness or distress? Is it something that passes with time or is it forever? I've read it could be "stimming" but not sure if this means the child is happy in the situation or unhappy.

2) Is it normal for an autistic child to be left alone so much?

3) How best could we approach the parents to ask them if they could do something to keep the noise down when we're trying to get our babies to sleep? "

The first two questions indicate a concern for the welfare of the child.

When I read the OP it was the fact that the child seemed to be alone for long periods of time that concerned me. I appreciate that the parents could be watching from the house and that the child may prefer to be alone. My own son is happy to go out and play in the rain, with no shoes on etc, and I know that to many people that looks like very strange behaviour and could be a sign of neglect.

However, I do find it quite surprising, if not alarming, that so many here seem to minimise or discount the possibility that this child might actually be neglected. Yes, everything might be ok, but then again, everything might be horribly wrong.

People do neglect, abuse, harm and even kill their own children. So often in the cases when the worst does happen people are wracked with guilt because they did see signs but didn't want to interfere or create bad feeling with a neighbour. Social Services in the UK have tried to encourage people to report suspicions, on the basis that it is better to be safe than sorry. So the idea of having to be 200% sure that it's neglect doesn't really work for me, I'm afraid. Better for caring parents to be checked out than for negligent or abusive parents to be allowed to continue unchecked.

I don't know if the OP will come back or not. I don't know what the best course of action is - she is the only one with enough information, but I definitely get a sense from her initial post that she is unsettled herself about how this child is being treated. Two of her three questions reflect that unease.

^^^agree 100%

How do you type those two bolded sentences without cognitive dissonance???

When we do things for our autistic kids that are against prevailing norms, we are being accomodating. But when other people do similar things but aren't on this board, it is remiss not to consider that they are neglectful?

I think getting to know the neighbors is a good idea. Just talking to them not specifically to ask them to take her back inside could open up a dialogue. What gets me angry here is the default to "probably bad parents" that probably most parents on the parenting board have been subjected to from the world at large because our kids don't act like other kids. When NT kids holler from dawn till dusk it's just normal childhood (I certainly did back in the day) because they are doing it with their friends. An autistic kid does it and suddenly we are supposed to assume neglect? After all the threads of parents here being infuriated when their own neighbors made just that assumption?

It's hypocrisy!! !

Several people have spoken to me about my son's behaviour and strange way of wearing no shoes and little clothing, often in cold and wet weather. I explain to them why he does that. Some people have spoken directly to my son about it, and some of these issues have been raised over the years by his primary school and now his high school.

I am aware of what my son is doing. He has the option of wearing shoes - sometimes I insist that he does. Sometimes I insist that he wears a jacket, etc. However, some children are out and about with no shoes because they don't have shoes, or because no one knows or cares where they are or what they are wearing.

The child screaming in the garden between 9am and 9pm may be fine, looked after, cared for. Or she might not be.

Edited to add: People do things which are "against prevailing norms" for all sorts of reasons, not all of them benign. My question here is "why are so many people here determined not to see the possibility of this not being ok?"

Eh, what ? What are you on about ? I have never used sarcasm here - at you or at anyone else - nor did I think that I was "ranting". I did not name call (like some others have) and have explained over and over and over again MY POV as a parent to a child similar to the one the OP is complaining about. Which POV would probably help the OP understand the parents -- which is what s/he was seeking - more than all the name calling and the supposedly empathetic posts that assume that the child is being neglected.

And, I don't care what anyone else thinks of my parenting skills, which you allude to in this post. I am not here on this site to win a Parent of the Year award, so go ahead and curse me and my parenting skills out all you want.

I will say this till I am blue in the face and until Mr. Pink Whistle brings the cows home.

IT IS FAR BETTER TO HAVE THE GIRL OUT IN THE GARDEN, PROBABLY HAVING ACCESS TO PLAY STRUCTURES, FRESH AIR, ACCESS TO FOOD AND DRINK IN THE KITCHEN, AND ACCESS TO SHELTER SHOULD THE WEATHER TURN SOUR, RATHER THAN HAVE HER LOCKED UP IN A SOUND PROOF BASEMENT 24/7 BECAUSE, DEAR ME, THE NEIGHBOURS ARE A-COMPLAINING.

I get that my child's noise is going to drive you nuts, but just like YOUR priority is getting your kids some peace and quiet, MY priority is to keep my kid happy any way possible.

EOS.

Go ahead and call me a bad parent. Just ask me if I give a damn what other people think of my allegedly poor ability to raise my offspring.