Can a district close an IEP w/o parent's written consent ?

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I doubt that the one phrase in the IDEA = fix social cognition deficits in autism.
Don't take it so literally.
More reasonably, it would like helping develop enough social skills + communication to get by in learning in the classroom.
But the rest is not up to the school.
The school can't fix his social anxiety or lack of friends in an IEP.

This is why I suggested making the reasoning for the IEP more specific earlier.
I didn't see anything beyond vague statements about improving social ability or keeping up with increasing social demands.
So the specific deficit needs to be verbalized, then what the school can do about it within reason for the child to function now and in middle school.

Bunny, this is exactly what the school is saying - that they can't help him make more friends or teach him how to deal with social anxiety. They supposedly VEHEMENTLY denied seeing any social anxiety in the classroom and also seemed to indicate that if he was experiencing any, then the social anxiety - or anxiety in general - might be a "medical" need. Or this is what Mum says, I don't know how much she really understood at the IEP meeting, due to her own language challenges.

Do you have any suggestions for how we might translate the social anxiety into a valid IEP goal ? For the life of me, I can't think of any. My own son is very different, so this is all very new to me. I have my own learning curve and would gratefully appreciate any feedback you have for wrt this kid.

Thanks !

I don't remember all the social goals we had, but I did make them add quite a few because the standard ones were woefully inadequate.

Basically with any goal, you want to make them as objectively measurable as you can, so they have the maximum accountability. Without knowing what the current baseline behavior is, something like "Initiates play with another child 2x a day" with a goal of 70% success, or something. Then when he achieves the goal, you want to make sure they do not delete it, as they often do. You would want to change the goal to 3x a day, and so on.

You want separate goals that include initiating conversations, initiating games etc. and reciprocation in conversation, goals for turn-taking. Depending on how he is doing , you could include duration, and have goals for having x number of conversations with a child, at least y minutes long, per day etc.

You want to make sure that you say "child" or "peer" if that is what you mean b/c otherwise they will count communication with adults, which is often easier for a child with social issues/social anxiety.

Do you know specifically how he scored for social skills when he was last tested for them? What social skills does he already have? What is his mom most concerned about right now, specifically with reference to social goals? That might help us get you some more specificity.

Does the kid have problems asking questions to the teacher or answering questions from the teacher?
These seem like problems a kid with social anxiety might have.
That could translate into IEP goal of answering questions in class, so the teacher would purposefully call on him to answer questions that they know that he knows how to answer.
He is super smart, so he probably knows the answers, and I would put answering instead of asking as a goal, since he is super smart, and probably has more answers than questions.
You could justify that he is going to need to speak more in front of people due to increasing demands on carrying on discussions and presentations in middle school, so he needs to help now and continuing into middle school.
But since I don't know the kid, I don't know if any of this is relevant, but I will try to think of more ways.
But his not having friends, I don't think the school can do much about that in IEP.
The school people are just not eggsperts in social anxiety or social cognition deficits in autism, so they can't really put much into practice in those areas, which are for psychs to deal with.

This falls in the realm of social communication, and should be covered by a speech therapist. If they haven't had one of their ST's trained in Michele Garcia Winner's Social Thinking curriculum (for instance), then there is a case for the school to pay for the child to see a speech therapist in the area who has that training.

I don't think that the school system should pay for autistic children specifically to see STs, OTs, ABAs trained in XYZ specialized programs beyond the programs that are available and funded through the school.
Different parents have different ideas on what their child should receive in terms of therapy for autism, and that is their business, not the school's.
If they want a specialized therapy not avialable through the school, then they should pay for it themselves.
The school should provide education and the basic skills that are required for getting an education.

You can't get the kind education you need to succeed in a future workforce without some social skills. Since a school's job is to prepare students for life, it is also their job to make sure students know how to exercise basic social skills. So much in the area of "social skills" directly affects school life:

1. Can the child speak appropriately and with suitable time limits to the topic being discussed in class?
2. Can the child tell when the teacher is indicating he needs to give up the floor when speaking in class?
3. Does the child know how to make good use of the teacher's time when asking questions or approaching the teacher to talk after class?
4. Can the child avoid creating an unnecessary disturbance at the school by misreading social cues and turning an innocent situation into a confrontational one?
5. Can the child avoid creating an unnecessary disturbance at the school by making inappropriate remarks?
6. Can the child effectively advocate for himself on issues faced by him in class?
7. Does the child know how to take turns in conversation, or when working in a group project?
8. Is the child capable of working with others on group projects?

Those are just off the top of my head - I am sure there are many, many more.

He is really chatty with people, but there are times when I (with my layperson's eye) feel that he struggles to process questions and takes several seconds to formulate his responses in his mind, before actually speaking them out. This child is fluent in multiple languages (his parents speak different languages and he hears English in the school) so the school initially tried to pin his hesitation before actually responding as being a "translating" delay. That is, they tried to claim that he was translating the question into his first language (his mother's), then translating the answer back into English before responding. There don't have a SHRED of proof for this claim and I smell BS. The boy clearly says that he doesn't do any translations in his head, that sometimes it's just hard for him to respond right away. So it appears that this may be a language processing issue ?

He supposedly answers questions when called upon in class, and also is a very polite child. So far, there have not been any behaviour issues that the school has complained about. However, they also claim that they aren't seeing any anxiety or aggression or unacceptable behaviour in the classroom, and if Mum & Dad see these at home, then it's probably a medical need and to go through their medical insurance for help / assistance with these. They supposedly even said that dispensing medications can be part of his 504 accommodations ! ! So, my suspicion is that all of their stances seems to support their attempt at getting rid of his IEP and they are claiming to not see any challenges in the school setting, just to meet their goal of getting him on a 504.






No to 6,7 and 8. A resounding NO. He has faced peer rejection and bullying in the past. He does not get metaphors, for instance, and takes things very literally, so he says that his classmates sometimes laugh at him for doing so. He does not know how or when to enter a conversation. I have seen this myself where he will keep on and on and on about his special interest and not realize that the other children have either slowly backed away from him or are just obviously no longer interested in hearing more on the topic from him. He seems to get obsessed with certain things and when other children are conversing about a related topic, he will go off on a tangent and then cries that the other kids were mean to him or told him to shut up.

I don't think that he is capable of working on a group project. During the summer, we had cultural camps for several weeks, and he just couldn't handle working in small groups. He is a brilliant kid but I just don't think he is socially any more developed than a typical preschooler would be (still does a LOT of parallel play and spends recess alone). His academic achievement is NOT AT ALL commensurate with his social development and it is a shame that the school thinks that he does not need an IEP just because he has a very high IQ / cognitive skills.

It could be an audio processing delay. I have this intermittently. For me it is like I hear the words as mumbles or like Charlie Brown adults and then by the time I get "What?" out of my mouth, my brain translates it into sensible language.

Where did I say that you can get along without having any social skills?
I said that schools should not pay for extra, specialized services like a certain type ST trained in a certain unproven program that parents for their kids.

So the picture that I am getting from the descriptions of this kid is that he is really smart + high-functioning + functional in the classroom on basic communications + not aversive from people since he is chatty with them + has difficulty dealing with peers, so his social deficits are basically those of autism that will last for life. At his age, of course an autistic child will not have the 6, 7, 8 skills, and indeed as an adult, I still don't have most of them. Yet I have jobs and education, and when I work on a project in my research, I simply monopolize all of it, require little input from others, and what I produce, others think is good, so they are fine with that. I will never work or think in any NT style, and I don't advocate for myself in the strong way that NT peers do.

I have never heard of a school paying for unproven flaky ST services. They can be obligated to pay for needed, legitimate ST services when they neglect to provide them, themselves.

I don't understand, Bunny. Are you saying that he does not need an IEP for his significant social deficits ? He is 10 but more like a preschooler / older toddler as far as social skills go. I am confused, shouldn't the school be helping him, especially as social expectations can only continue to increase as he gets older ?

OK, I've re-read your words. But we weren't talking about any out-of-the-ordinary services; we were talking about the basic speech and OT services that schools across the country ARE providing for ASD kids, and that we would expect this child to get if he entered middle school with an IEP. I'm really not sure what kinds of programs you were thinking of when you wrote that.

I was referring to some Marcia something's Social something's curriculum that some other poster said schools should pay for therapists specifcally trained in that specific unproven program.

My bigger points are these:
1) Schools can't cure autism or provide therapies for psychological disorders like social anxiety, that is indeed a medical issue for which they are not responsible.
2) It is not necessary for each autistic kid to receive "help" from lots of therapies or programs in school, if they are able to function well in mainstream classroom and really academically ahead. One doesn't need to think inside a box of therapy X, Y, Z for autistic child to fix weaknesses A, B, C. Instead, accept A, B, C, and focus on strengths I, II, III and basic communication and EF skills for the child to develop well into a person who can be skilled in something and interested in pursuing something when they grow up. Often, focusing on therapies XYZ for weaknesses ABC dilutes energy and time from strengths and screws up the child's potential.

These things I post here for any parents reading, not only ones talking about it in this thread, because it's important to think outside the traditional system.

Last edited by btbnnyr on 08 Oct 2014, 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Here http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp1280457.html#1280457 are some ideas about goals - most of them don't pertain to you in particular, but you can get an idea of how they work. There's probably a lot more in that thread that I didn't uncover...

DS has a goal something about engaging in a reciprocal conversation X number of times per day (I honestly don't remember because the school's doing a great job of it.)

Also, the advocacy skills and peer skills will need to be broken down into teeny chunks. For instance, advocacy involves identifying a need, voicing the need and voicing the need appropriately - three different skills; there could be more.