My Son Just Violently Attacked Me
androbot01
Veteran
Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Jacoby
Veteran
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,284
Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
11 Aug 2015, 11:00 am
I would probably seek neurological and psychiatric help probably, there might be something there and it is better to do something sooner than later rather than wait to see if it happens again. Definitely don't think child services or the police are the options you'd want to go to, that's what you should be hoping to avoid.
My youngest brother was bad epileptic up until he was teenager and when he came out of having a seizure he could be violent altho never a sustained attack like that with the swearing but I guess I wasn't there for every one.
Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1026
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...
11 Aug 2015, 11:20 am
Psychiatric-drugs are still primitive-attempts that never cure the source-problem. All they can do is mask symptoms, but that is akin to spraying de-odorizers or air-fresheners onto a cat-litter box in order to remove any possible odor, rather than actually removing the source of the odor (i.e.: cleanse the poop out).
Simply having a child (well anybody really) practice daily qigong-style breathing & self-calming exercises goes a long way into developing their abilities to be able to have better-control of their own emotions & thus able to stay calm in their actions.
_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.
androbot01
Veteran
Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Age: 54
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,746
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
11 Aug 2015, 11:28 am
Psychiatric drugs are better than an exorcism. And I agree, we are a long way from being able to deal with the source of the problem. In the case of autism, we don't even know what the source is. Probably genetics though. But in the meantime I'll take seroquel.
Simply having a child (well anybody really) practice daily qigong-style breathing & self-calming exercises goes a long way into developing their abilities to be able to have better-control of their own emotions & thus able to stay calm in their actions.
Agreed. Although I'm unfamiliar with gigong, the practice of breathing exercises and muscle relaxation techniques have helped me a lot.
11 Aug 2015, 12:55 pm
Masking symptoms is not necessarily a bad thing. If you are having an anxiety attack, masking the symptoms is awesome. If you have a severe headache or are in pain, analgesics are great. If you tear a muscle, NSAIDs can be wonderful while you heal up. Conventional wisdom is that "you don't just put a bandaid on the problem" but if you have a cut, a bandaid is quite useful in keeping blood from flowing all over the place while tissues repair and knit together.
Talking about therapies as if they are useless or counterproductive because they don't get to underlying causes doesn't really make sense.
If you are a parent being battered by your child, masking symptoms is probably highly desirable.
Qi Gong, Nei Kung and Tai Chi are all wonderful ways of learning inner focus, balance and control. Meditative martial arts were enormously helpful to me in learning to manage some kinds of stress. Anything that helps develop self control and emotional regulation will probably be helpful in time.
If the situation here is like the one rebeccab46 experienced, it's important to find out ASAP so the problem can be directly addressed.
11 Aug 2015, 3:24 pm
This thread is not really the place for this discussion, but I think this has to be said:
Sadly there are still many people locked into this kind of belief system and it kills children.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Ne ... 68731.html
http://wjla.com/news/crime/one-of-two-w ... lty-110631
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/crime/20 ... /25778451/
I have seen these kinds of story every year of my adult life. Perhaps it's a result of being somewhat self-centered and also asthmatic, but I vividly recall the account, about 15 years ago, of an asthmatic boy who died in an asthma attack with a bunch of religious adults sitting on his chest, trying to drive evil spirits out. Albuterol might have only treated the symptoms, but in this case the symptoms, plus the BS spirit therapy, were fatal.
It may be that belief in this pernicious nonsense begins as harmless new-agey tolerance, but this way of viewing the universe is intrinsically dangerous--people in the grip of it cannot make rational decisions about their actions because they have elevated imagined or "believed in" things to weigh as much or more than facts in their decision making process. There is a time and a place for this kind of twaddle and medical or psychiatric crises are not it.
Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1026
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...
11 Aug 2015, 6:11 pm
All religions are actually extremely ignorant about genuine spiritual-reality, and that is unfortunate, because there are masses of people who are indoctrinated by many incorrect doctrines. Much as the subject of para-psychology gets the flack that it does, that also has more to do with ignorance, and people getting their information from television rather than well-documented literature.
This thread is not really the place for this discussion, but I think this has to be said:
Sadly there are still many people locked into this kind of belief system and it kills children.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Ne ... 68731.html
http://wjla.com/news/crime/one-of-two-w ... lty-110631
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/crime/20 ... /25778451/
I have seen these kinds of story every year of my adult life. Perhaps it's a result of being somewhat self-centered and also asthmatic, but I vividly recall the account, about 15 years ago, of an asthmatic boy who died in an asthma attack with a bunch of religious adults sitting on his chest, trying to drive evil spirits out. Albuterol might have only treated the symptoms, but in this case the symptoms, plus the BS spirit therapy, were fatal.
It may be that belief in this pernicious nonsense begins as harmless new-agey tolerance, but this way of viewing the universe is intrinsically dangerous--people in the grip of it cannot make rational decisions about their actions because they have elevated imagined or "believed in" things to weigh as much or more than facts in their decision making process. There is a time and a place for this kind of twaddle and medical or psychiatric crises are not it.
For cases of spirit-possessions that are actual genuine spirit-possessions (or psychotronic-manipulation might be a better modern-day explanation), exorcism (the religious-versions) is actually an extremely ignorant & harmful method of dealing with said phenomenon, but there are some very well-documented cases of modern-day doctors/scientists who've done work that can be categorised as modern-day exorcism, but rather than doing it forcefully like a government, they used reasoning & negotiation-skills instead.
...from the first part of a chaptre of someone with actual-experience with this phenomenon.
“A friend of mine has had a horrible experience. She’s very, very upset about it, but she doesn’t dare talk to anybody. It has to do with something ‘psychic.’ Now you know something about that kind of thing, and you’re interested in it. If you could talk to her, you might be able to calm her down. Would you be willing to come to dinner on Friday and meet her?”
“Sure, I’d like to. But what happened?”
“I’d rather she told you. She’s psychic, and has had quite a few experiences. She seems to have been able to handle them okay. But this time, things got a little out of hand.”
That Friday I took a commuter train out to a suburban stop. My teaching assistant’s husband picked me up and we drove to an elegant, modern home. We entered a sunken living room, and there I met Ann, a vivacious, attractive blonde, with hair sweeping down to her shoulders. No beads, no incense, no hippy robes. Someone less like the popular image of a “psychic” would have been hard to imagine. Ann held a graduate degree in economics and an executive position at a major corporation. She was so wholesome she looked like a cheerleader. Bright and outgoing, she chatted easily, but beneath that exterior, she seemed nervous. Her eyes kept sliding away from mine. Finally I asked her what had happened. In a trembling voice, she told me. As she began, her eyes filled with tears. Before she had finished she was sobbing.
Her friends had been terrified by the incident. They told her that her face had suddenly changed to that of a man, and the voice in which she spoke was male. They would not repeat to her the terrible things that the “voice” had said. They said she had gone berserk, had knocked over the dining room chairs, had flung glasses and dishes to the floor. She found her face covered with deep, bleeding scratches. They had been self-inflicted.
I was thunderstruck. Ann had ventured into a realm of experience of which I knew practically nothing. I asked her what had happened afterwards. Had he tried again? Angrily, her voice with emotion, she said that he had, half a dozen times. He had “appeared” with the same grisly message – that he wanted a body – hers.
“What do you do?”
“I get angry and I tell him to get lost.”
“What does he do?”
“He just presses harder. But I resist him. I get really angry. I keep telling him to get lost! After a while, he gives up and leaves. He can’t get into my body unless I relax and let him. In the weeks after that first experience, he tried six times. Finally, he gave up. He’s gone away.”
And that is how I first became interested in possession.
This possession experience was of a particular type – brief, violent, and hateful. But as we will see, there are many, many other kinds.
It wasn’t easy for me to take the hypothesis of possession seriously. How can anyone in the late twentieth century truly believe that “spirits” can influence the bodies and the lives of the living? It wasn’t an idea in which I wanted to believe. It was frightening, irrational, crazy. And when I looked into it, I found out what others before me had also discovered – that it was true.
I have personally witnessed « trances (a type of spirit-possession) » for myself, and when I see extremely ignorant comments, I am going to call out those comments as being in fact extremely ignorant (but then again so are the religious people [i.e.: they are ignorant] of whom we also both speak against - ignorance is apparently in abundance everywhere). I simply cannot allow the ignorant to continue going on being so uninformed.
Some of the experiences recounted to me involved such anguish that I found myself haunted by them. I had to learn more. I began to read. I was astounded by what I discovered – that we have had exorcists in our midst all along. Of the seven whose published works I examined, five had either M.D.s or Ph.D.s and the other two were also literate, intelligent, and well-educated. I had always associated the word “exorcism” with the demonological fantasies of medieval Christian theology, fanciful tales of the casting out of assorted devils, demons, and evil spirits. This I simply could not take seriously. But not one of these men ever referred to devils or demons. They simply claimed that “possession” was caused, for a variety of reasons and in a variety of ways, by the spirits of the human dead.
These men found themselves approached by people who were seeking help, people who confided that, no matter how “crazy” it might sound, they were being bothered by spirits, spirits whose voices they heard in their heads, who sometimes took over their bodies, who interfered with their lives, who gave them “blackouts” during which they did not wish to do. Some of these men, because of their rather unusual intellectual backgrounds, found such claims credible; others, because of their scientific training and rationalist orientation, were skeptical. All, however, were willing to give the patient the benefit of the doubt, and proceeded with treatment as if what the patient were saying might well be true. The results were interesting, to say the least. When these modern exorcists used psychics, as five of them did, deceased human beings, whose existence and death could be verified, often “spoke” through the psychic. Their motives and state of mind were highly varied. Many were badly confused about what had been happening to them. But regardless of their state of mind, most could be reached by the exorcist, reasoned with, and persuaded to leave the victim alone. These conversations, many of which have been recorded, are very similar to those which have been held with haunting ghosts. The phenomena ceased, and the victim was free.
_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.
11 Aug 2015, 7:35 pm
I really think this thread needs to circle back to topic.
OP, if nausea is a consistent trigger and nothing else seems to be causing it, then I would investigate that link first.
I would guess that something medically linked with nausea is the issue, or the sensory issues surrounding the nausea are the triggers.
I do not know how easy or hard it is to rule out something connected with the nausea, other than to take him to the doctor, and see if it is just a routine flu (or whatever) the next time he experiences nausea.
Aside from that, I would try to ease the nausea. If he can tolerate carbonation, some ginger ale (the kind with real ginger) might help. I don't know if the ginger thing is a placebo or not, but my body thinks it works.
Ban-Dodger
Veteran
Joined: 2 Jun 2011
Age: 1026
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,820
Location: Возможно в будущее к Россию идти... можеть быть...
12 Aug 2015, 1:33 am
One common theme of the « mind-possession-research » involves the fact that the « victims » from malevolent « entities » (particularly the victims of a younger age) frequently throw up & regurgitate/vomit right after an episode (and frequently). Strengthening the child's mind is really the most-effective course-of-action that has been well-documented to have a more permanent long-term-effect to prevent such future-episodes. Does your mind control your emotions or do your emotions control your mind and what are the results of one versus the other ?
Like others here have mentioned, muscle-relaxation techniques, and calming exercises have helped them a lot to be in control of their own emotions. Negative emotions welling up within yourself is what allows you to factually « lose control » over your actions as can clearly & obviously be seen when one has put themselves into a state of extreme negative-emotion (children do not yet understand the role that thoughts/emotions play in determining their likely behaviourial-outcomes). The doctors/scientists/researchers who have actually bothered to personally look into the phenomenon have also found that the « entities » bothering their victims are themselves always in need of help/assistance/guidance/wisdom, and so through teaching the children how to stay calm, any « linked entities » will also learn the same techniques (for their own minds), and will finally have methods available to them that help keep them from being a disturbance or danger unto others.
Ignorance of reality is extremely irresponsible (and is a primary reason for the amount of crimes & wars that continue to perpetuate throughout society [not to mention the prevalent false-beliefs found in all religions and even most of today's so-called modern-day sciences]). Having put in over 50K hours worth of research/study/field-testing/examination/cross-referencing/investigation/etc., into various phenomena, combined with a lot of personal-experience in being able to first-hand witness & experience various phenomena for myself. Just because SOME things are rare for SOME people to experience does NOT mean that it does not or cannot happen, just like not everybody will experience the falling of a meteor within their entire lives onto the ground right before their very eyes, and it's not like this phenomenon hasn't been well-studied with careful scientific-protocol or researched by anybody, but more that the public is deceived by both religion and so-called science.
I cannot stress this enough though : The child absolutely needs to be taught to be in control of his thoughts, that he must be taught to practice keeping any and all negative-thoughts out of his mind (and the reasons why, such as its karmic-consequences, for what you do unto others will eventually also happen to you), and this must be done on a daily basis combined with muscle-relaxation techniques & breathing-exercises. Give him this benefit of self-development, and make sure he stays OFF any kind of drug, feed him HEALTHY foods (like a lot of fruits & vegetables) INSTEAD of unhealthy junk (stop buying candies & sweets), make sure the water you drink is purified (i.e.: not from the tap but filtered such as through processes like reverse-osmosis), that he drinks mostly water (i.e.: don't let him have a lot of soft-drinks or soda or pop or soda-pop or energy drinks or anything of that nature), for all of these things CAN and DO affect one's mental-health, then I assure you that any future-episodes of violence will subside & should eventually just disappear altogether (barring extremely traumatic-experiences prior to the development of his wisdom-levels).
_________________
Pay me for my signature. 私の署名ですか❓お前の買うなければなりません。Mon autographe nécessite un paiement. Которые хочет мою автографу, у тебя нужно есть деньги сюда. Bezahlst du mich, wenn du meine Unterschrift wollen.
12 Aug 2015, 5:40 am
Can you elaborate?
Is your thought that some irregular stimulus of the vagus nerve may be responsible for the symptoms and behavior? Or that vagus nerve stimulation might be therapeutic? I don't quite follow.
it was an ambit stab in the dark. irritation of the vagus nerve can result in otherwise unexplained nausea and also trigger an increase in the release of testosterone (which in prepubescence manifests as baseless aggression).
12 Aug 2015, 7:55 am
While the self care measures are important and can make a difference, I think it's an unfair burden on kids and parents to pretend these things, delivered consistently, are always enough. Autism spectrum disorders are disorders because something's harder, and there is often trauma in dealing with a confusing world that is confused by you.
12 Aug 2015, 1:53 pm
This. I was thinking of time for psychiatric care.
That doesn't have to require calling the police or child services per say....the police are only for when someone is an immediate threat to themselves/others and needs to be hospitalized since the idea is they can restrain said individual. Otherwise there are much calmer ways to get into psychiatric treatment or hospitalization. As for the child services they might just assume slap 'unfit parents' label on the parents and get them in legal trouble...but then I may be biased as a have a distrust of the system.
I think it's a shame how child violence is still blamed on the parents and people still believe all kids are innocent and not capable of real harm. Look at the Child of Rage for example. It aired in 1990 I think and it was a story about Beth Thomas. (You can find it on youtube and fortunately she recovered from RAD so she is living a fine life now and is a fine adult) It's a very disturbing documentary and yes a kid can do real harm to others including adults. I even knew of a boy at age ten who had been hospitalized several times and threw an ax at my brothers and their friends and he was hospitalized and his mom was so afraid of him she was his doormat so he had her under control and he told me he had broken other kids bones who were handicapped.
I have thought about spreading awareness on all this but I don't think the world is ready for the uncomfortable truth. In fact there is sort of some awareness about it already but it still gets blamed on the parents because people trivialize the violence the kid does. They don't take it seriously.
A parent could do a blog and document all the abuse their kid does and take photos of injuries their kid leaves on them or on others but then the parent might get branded as a narcissist and accused of doing it for attention and even if the parent has a negative reaction to the abuse, people will just assume that is why the kid acts out instead of the other way around.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
Sweetleaf
Veteran
Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 34,907
Location: Somewhere in Colorado
13 Aug 2015, 4:07 pm
This. I was thinking of time for psychiatric care.
That doesn't have to require calling the police or child services per say....the police are only for when someone is an immediate threat to themselves/others and needs to be hospitalized since the idea is they can restrain said individual. Otherwise there are much calmer ways to get into psychiatric treatment or hospitalization. As for the child services they might just assume slap 'unfit parents' label on the parents and get them in legal trouble...but then I may be biased as a have a distrust of the system.
I think it's a shame how child violence is still blamed on the parents and people still believe all kids are innocent and not capable of real harm. Look at the Child of Rage for example. It aired in 1990 I think and it was a story about Beth Thomas. (You can find it on youtube and fortunately she recovered from RAD so she is living a fine life now and is a fine adult) It's a very disturbing documentary and yes a kid can do real harm to others including adults. I even knew of a boy at age ten who had been hospitalized several times and threw an ax at my brothers and their friends and he was hospitalized and his mom was so afraid of him she was his doormat so he had her under control and he told me he had broken other kids bones who were handicapped.
I have thought about spreading awareness on all this but I don't think the world is ready for the uncomfortable truth. In fact there is sort of some awareness about it already but it still gets blamed on the parents because people trivialize the violence the kid does. They don't take it seriously.
A parent could do a blog and document all the abuse their kid does and take photos of injuries their kid leaves on them or on others but then the parent might get branded as a narcissist and accused of doing it for attention and even if the parent has a negative reaction to the abuse, people will just assume that is why the kid acts out instead of the other way around.
I never suggested kids cannot do real harm...I just pointed out there is no need to involve the police for hospitalization necessarily, and I think its best the parent consults their psychiatrist or whatever about it to decide how to proceed. If more extensive treatment or even hospitalization is deemed necessary it only would need to involve the police...if they violently resist being taken there, and its a last resort.
Also it could have to do with medications or a health condition, so those are good things to look into as well before turning your child over to the state over one unpleasant incident...especially if it involves out of character behavior since that can point to neurological, psychological or other serious health conditions...you think the state/police are going to investigate all that? no they'll just be eager to get this kid into the justice system passed along from child detention centers to foster homes and what not and not so sure that is what the OP wants.
_________________
We won't go back.
14 Aug 2015, 12:04 am
This is a very interesting thread and I can see some similarities in my 4 yr old when he's not feeling well. He starts to panic, and becomes afraid of what his body is going to do and just freaks out. Thankfully he doesn't react violently and I've been able to calm him after a while, like today I had to sit on the toilet first and then he was fine (his dad doesn't understand and will try to use force to get him to do something...) but sometimes he'll just meltdown and explode all over the floor...
OP, hope you've gotten some help 
_________________
Your Aspie score: 171 of 200
Your Neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 40 of 200
14 Aug 2015, 1:09 pm
This. I was thinking of time for psychiatric care.
That doesn't have to require calling the police or child services per say....the police are only for when someone is an immediate threat to themselves/others and needs to be hospitalized since the idea is they can restrain said individual. Otherwise there are much calmer ways to get into psychiatric treatment or hospitalization. As for the child services they might just assume slap 'unfit parents' label on the parents and get them in legal trouble...but then I may be biased as a have a distrust of the system.
I think it's a shame how child violence is still blamed on the parents and people still believe all kids are innocent and not capable of real harm. Look at the Child of Rage for example. It aired in 1990 I think and it was a story about Beth Thomas. (You can find it on youtube and fortunately she recovered from RAD so she is living a fine life now and is a fine adult) It's a very disturbing documentary and yes a kid can do real harm to others including adults. I even knew of a boy at age ten who had been hospitalized several times and threw an ax at my brothers and their friends and he was hospitalized and his mom was so afraid of him she was his doormat so he had her under control and he told me he had broken other kids bones who were handicapped.
I have thought about spreading awareness on all this but I don't think the world is ready for the uncomfortable truth. In fact there is sort of some awareness about it already but it still gets blamed on the parents because people trivialize the violence the kid does. They don't take it seriously.
A parent could do a blog and document all the abuse their kid does and take photos of injuries their kid leaves on them or on others but then the parent might get branded as a narcissist and accused of doing it for attention and even if the parent has a negative reaction to the abuse, people will just assume that is why the kid acts out instead of the other way around.
I never suggested kids cannot do real harm...I just pointed out there is no need to involve the police for hospitalization necessarily, and I think its best the parent consults their psychiatrist or whatever about it to decide how to proceed. If more extensive treatment or even hospitalization is deemed necessary it only would need to involve the police...if they violently resist being taken there, and its a last resort.
Also it could have to do with medications or a health condition, so those are good things to look into as well before turning your child over to the state over one unpleasant incident...especially if it involves out of character behavior since that can point to neurological, psychological or other serious health conditions...you think the state/police are going to investigate all that? no they'll just be eager to get this kid into the justice system passed along from child detention centers to foster homes and what not and not so sure that is what the OP wants.
Oh no, I wasn't saying you don't think kids can cause harm, you said how child services might think the parent as unfit just because they reported their child to them for them being violent so the parent gets in legal trouble. That has happened before yes and an Ohio couple got six months in jail and a $1000 fine for abandoning their nine year old boy at their services. This just means how people still don't take this seriously if they are going to easily judge the parents and think of them as lazy or unfit because they couldn't handle their violent child. That nine year old boy was a danger to others in his family and his siblings feared him and the parents and he had been in and out of hospitals so this tells me this kid is pretty dangerous if everyone fears him and he had been hospitalized before. I think if more people were aware, then more of these kids would get help and more families would be supported instead of suffering in silence and they won't have to live in shame. I think parents would be taken more seriously too if they tell the doctor what is going on and the kid would be helped more often and the parents would be judged less by society if they really knew. With RAD it's more tricky because lot of doctors know nothing about it so treatment makes them worse and more violent which is why RAD must be more aware of and more understood so these kids can get help too like Beth Thomas did and she apparently recovered in less than a year after treatment because her new mother knew how to handle these kids and treat the condition. Sadly these sort of people seem to be rare or else tons of RAD kids would be getting the help they need but it seems like lot of them don't get help at all and they just get worse and worse through treatment when their parents try and get them help and most of these kids seem to be adopted which is why I fear adopting a child.
There are other things out there too that are still not taken seriously such as sibling abuse, parental abuse, men being victims of rape or domestic violence, bullying, cyber bullying (though I am guilty of this as well because I can't understand why it's an issue, all you have to do is shut off all comments on your social media and and not let anyone on your page by making it all private and not even look for hate pages on you and also just shut off your phone and not give out your cell number, and also don't give out your email address and IM names to other kids. Problem solved).
I am not saying the OP's kid has RAD because one can be violent and not have the disorder. This was just one example.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
