Manipulative behavior/arguing

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Ok...I know my reply might not be so 'on topic' BUT: First I want to say, I agree with everything discussed regarding manipulation, but I don't see this whole tooth brush insident as manipulation......Secondly: I can't really see why toonthpaste is so important? Is it for the floride or clean breath? What I usually do is, put the toothpaste (baby paste that doesn't burn) on the brush, hand it to him in his hand (already put bit of water on it) and brush with him.....This seems to work, otherwise he gets distracted!

My dentist is an excellent dentist, he also has a good sense of humor, practices yoga, a cool guy in other words. He told me one time that toothpaste isn't really necessary to keep your teeth clean.

Check out this article on toothpaste. Maybe this is not the hill you want to die on, in other words, as long as your son is using water and his toothbrush it might be all good, consult your dentist? Or if there is a mouthwash he can dip his brush into if you still think he needs a cleaning medium on his brush?

Is toothpaste really necessary?

Meanwhile, to the OP's question are AS kids manipulative, hell yes. My son loves to divide and conquer his parents, if Dad said no, go ask Mom, and he lies like a rug with a very straight face, though in his younger days, he was 'Honest Abe'. I have had many times when I am wondering is this an Aspie thing for him or is he just being a kid. Most of the time just being a kid. Though kid no longer, now he is 20 years old.

Good luck!

"and he lies like a rug with a very straight face".......sorry....I say this with LOVE: There must be some advantages of not showing emotion! LOL

I feel this thread needs another perspective on manipulation.

My son is not manipulative in the way we think of the word. Will he try every tool in his arsenal if he is in distress and the regular channels have not worked? Maybe. But if he has gotten to the point that he is even trying something manipulative, he is also well on his way to a meltdown, and it is time someone recognized that he has not been expressing a want, but a need. Needs must be met or the child cannot go forward.

To me, the concept of manipulation does not jive with the way I've seen AS kids like my son think. Manipulation requires a person see the route that backs out the door, goes around the house, and crosses back a few times, and then goes in another door. My son is rarely capable of seeing anything beyond one fairly straight path from A to B.

My cannot successfully lie. His face is an open book to anyone who knows him well. And that is common among AS kids, too.

We've discussed a few times that most AS kids are rules kids. They go through all the normal phases as toddlers and in elementary school, not necessarily at the same age or in the same order as NT kids, but pretty much most of the same path. So they do experiment with lying and "fantasy think" and all that. But most of that isn't with a mal-intent. It's just kids learning about their world, and how you respond can make a difference. The risk that exists with AS kids, much more than with NT, is that in the attempt to teach the social rules about lying you paint a picture of a society full of hypocrites. Between the literal thinking they need and the inexact language we use, there is a lot of room for miss-fired conveyance. The flip side being, if you really do have an older child that has become intent on lying or manipulation, then it is worth figuring out how he came to see that as appropriate, because odds are good they have actually written that into their rules.

But mostly I think people have to ask the question: if my child is driven to go to those lengths to get what he wants, why?