Raised by Aspergers parent

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WP is a place for autistics and other non-neurotypicals. Any calculation of what is to go on here should have that reality as a background truth. Most of the world is dominated by NTs. Here is a tiny space that is not.

If you come here and talk about how much aspie parents suck, expect some less than positive feedback. If you want a supporting chorus of people who will also sling vitriol at those lousy ASD parents, there are other places out there for that.

Sure this is something that needs study but people here are not engaged in an academic exercise, they are living life as best they can.

To any NT who suffered at the hands of an aspie parent, you have my sympathy, if you want to cast aspersions on aspie parents collectively, please take it and stick it where the sun don't shine.

^^^This is what I wanted to say, but for some reason it took me many more words than you took.

I think it is in the long term best interest of our membership to allow NT children of ASD children to work out their issues here, with us, and give them some leeway while doing so, rather than leave them no choice but to seek out another place. Main reason: have you SEEN those other places?

Secondary reason: our ASD parents can learn what pitfalls to watch for and work against.

I know this issue has a strained history, but good work has happened in this thread. You either try to help, or you don't read.

Thank you, DW. Adamantium... um... does anyone actually moderate this thread?

DW, just working my way backwards through recent comments here. I greatly appreciate your insights and tact.

On the one hand Adamantium says:

If you come here and talk about how much aspie parents suck, expect some less than positive feedback. If you want a supporting chorus of people who will also sling vitriol at those lousy ASD parents, there are other places out there for that.

And you say:

Main reason: have you SEEN those other places?

I think it is one of the difficulties of having an undiagnosed AS parent that it is NOT possible to discuss any of it with the parent without the parent being emotionally hurt and feeling personally victimized - at least it hasn't been possible for me. And Adamantium displays a similar sensitivity. I don't think any of us want to sling vitriol or denigrate our parents. We just want to understand. And as you say, most of us land here in search of some kind of healing. I was prompted to go out in search of this after a conversation with a cousin whose son is autistic - her insights were very helpful, and I was hoping to find more along those lines.

Interesting to hear your thoughts on Maxine Aston. I must say her comments on childishness describe my mother to a T. She was very quick to be competitive, and remains very immature in her emotional responses. Of course, as several people have pointed out, it's tempting to blame everything on the AS when no doubt there were many other issues at play. One of these: a crooked GP who prescribed her every kind of tranquilizer known to man, on several of which she became dependent. How many frustrated housewives have been doped to the eyeballs by ignorant GPs over the decades? Could this have made her psychological issues more extreme, or even helped cause some of them?

As to Adamantium's comment about shoving and places where the sun doesn't shine, I don't think these are appropriate, though I take your point that on a board frequented by mostly AS people (I liked your analogy of the big room), it would be absurd to think we can get by without some socially inappropriate comments.

Politely patronizing is one of the most irritating modes of communication.

Granted, it is a highly effective means of displaying aggression in an apparently socially defensible way--But it's so terribly phony.

I rather prefer either avoiding aggression altogether or getting on with it and being directly aggressive. But perhaps that's just my nature because of my neurology and I am just following the programming inherent in my circuits. Then again, I suppose it might all be the environment I grew up in and I can hold my parents responsible for my actions, foibles, choices and general personality.

One thing I have noticed is that when people are given a message they don't want to hear, they often concentrate on peripheral details such as the manner of the message's delivery.

Another thing I have noticed is that everyone wants to be heard, but most people are not so interested in listening. They complain when they share an experience and others respond with tangents that branch toward their own ideas.

When people are brought into, or choose to enter, collaborative enterprises and activities it can be interesting to see these tendencies play out.

Last edited by Adamantium on 09 Nov 2013, 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Additional thoughts:

IMO---

I don't think spectrum people are the only people who are misapplying social rules of etiquette and basic respect on this thread.

Would it be OK if people of mixed race showed up on a message board that normally deals with issues for People of Color, complaining about their POC parents and asking what stereotypical aspects of their POC parent messed up their childhood and how typical it is? Would it be OK if they wanted a segregated thread only for people who self-identify as white to undertake this purpose? I don't think the fact that they could be wandering around on KKK or Aryan Nation sites instead, would warrant letting them trash POC on the POC board.

If you don't like the above example because there is no disability involved, how about this one. Would it be OK, if a non-hearing impaired child of hearing-impaired parents showed up on a "deaf culture" board complaining about things like how they were not adequately nurtured in music and other pursuits. I could see indulging some of the questions if they were respectful and if it did not degenerate, but how far should it be allowed to go on? Would you tell the regular hearing-impaired people on the board to let it go on without comment even if they perceived it as disrespectful?

I am not implying that I think the ban hammer should come out. I am not saying the thread needs to be shut down. I am not implying that NT people are not welcome here. I like the NT parents on here, and do not feel marginalized by them in any way. They add to the discussion. I am not talking about them. This is not a thread that services them any more than it services us, IMO, because of the prejudice that is being brought in. It is being used as a dumping ground for people who probably need therapy to hash out their issues and honestly probably have some unacknowledged AS aspects of their own, they might want to get a handle on. I don't think saying that the AS people who are on the board should just ignore the thread if we don't like it is fair when these other somewhat trolling people are basically given free rein. Again, not saying ban hammer people, or shut the thread down. I do not favor censorship at all. I do think we should be allowed to come on here and identify prejudice when we perceive it.

I don't know what kind of "moderating" Jenufa expects, but I really don't think anything we have been saying is inappropriate.

Edited to add: I would think anyone who was sincerely on this thread not to trash AS as a whole, would value whatever insight we had into their parents thought process and not want to make it an NT only club. Focusing only on NT posts that validate what you say and ignoring AS posts like we aren't real people, unless there is criticism that you want to address is disrespectful.

Edited also to add: Adamantium was engaging you on topic, and did not get his back up as soon as he might have. I don't think it is AS "touchiness." It is how anyone reacts when he/she feels disrespected. Attributing anything we do that you don't like to AS is also prejudiced in addition to coming off as condescending and patronizing.

Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 09 Nov 2013, 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think you'll find the whole board is moderated by very dedicated people and the standards are quite clear. Personal attacks are not permitted. I am also quite sure that no one has been personally attacked here recently.

I am sure you can read English quite well, so you'll understand that a statement beginning, "To any NT who suffered at the hands of an aspie parent..." can't be aimed at you personally.

You may or may not have the primary intention of defaming aspie parents, I don't know. However, I am rather more certain that if you are trying to use the rules of Wrong Planet to carve out a space where you can do that and silence others who take offense, I really doubt you will find a sympathetic audience in our esteemed and thoughtful moderators. But you can always ask them.

Edited to add: there have been several attempts in the second half of this thread to redefine it as being about the particular focus of interest of a the complaining poster, probably because they haven't bothered to read the thread.



Please note that this does not restrict the topic to:
NT children of aspie parents
NT children of undiagnosed aspie parents
NT or ASD children who feel that their aspie parents were bad at parenting

If this have been stated before, sorry. I only made it through half of the posts.

As a child of an asperger and a NT
asperger myself
a bunch of kids, probably asperger or close
Intimate knowledge of the cluster B diagnosis (psychopath, narcissist, sociopath and borderline)

I think some of these descriptions of asperger parents are due to the fact that they did not know about their own issues and therefore were not able to find coping strategies (have been stated here before). Parents here on WP are (mostly) more aware of their own shortcomings and strengths and are hopefully better parents.

Some of the things described here do not fit the category asperger as I see it but resemble borderline much more (and/or co dependent). There are many more things out there besides asperger. Many of them much more damaging (and intentionally so!).

First, moderators usually hang back when they see issues to allow members to resolve them on their own if possible. Which our membership has been really good at doing.

But, second, with most of the moderators in the history of this forum being both ASD and single, the parenting board tends to be a place they aren't super comfortable with and don't normally read in the course of their own day. I think most assume that someone will contact them if there is an issue, and also that since this is a board I read, and since I used to be a moderator, that I am likely to be more or less on watch (which lately has been quite far on the side of less).

Third, this thread would be a rough read for them, too, and they've got plenty of other issues to handle. I'd kind of rather they not have to figure this one out.

Adamantium and ASDMommyASDKid, I think my problem is that Jenufa is NOT one the extremely angry NT children we've had come on the boards. I read her as sincerely looking for answers. Sure, there is miscommunication, but there is no specific fault in that. Sure, there are things about ASD that she generalizes or doesn't understand yet, but that is why she is asking.

It was decided years ago that this thread was staying, although under a different set of moderators, so lets allow it to work the way it is meant to work. Even though its gotten unbelievably rough at times (I did almost shut it down), its been really civil for a long time. I don't know what members expect from someone who knows very little about ASD when they start posting; of course some assumptions are going to come across offensive. That is the nature of ASSUMPTIONS. So, you address the assumption, give the better information, and move on.

I don't think Jenufa hears me because I might be NT (I'm far from "normal"), but because I had some shared experiences in the relationship with my own father. It is THAT which sometimes makes me useful in this thread. I am also raising an ASD son that I hope will someday give me grandkids, so there is no part of me that wants to ever think someone with ASD is destined to be a bad parent. But, like anyone entering parenthood, you've got to be aware of your own strengths and weaknesses and, more than that, how they might affect your children. This is true for anyone; ASD is one aspect of that.

Personally, I find some of the specific questions Jenufa is asking interesting. Could there be a connection with weight issues? I've been pondering that one because while I don't think there is anything there, I don't know that there isn't. The striving for excellence thing is interesting because my kids are accusing me of that exact same thing, and I'm already being left to wonder is it really that important to pass on? It may or may not have any connection at all to ASD, but it is an interesting item to ponder as a parent. Striving for excellence is fine, but when your daughter breaks down in tears worried she has disappointed you with "good" instead of "excellent," what am I doing wrong as a parent?

I WANT to have this conversation, even though my time is limited. I don't WANT someone who comes here running away as so many parents used to when I first joined this board (the ASD membership was not usually very nice to NT parents, because the NT parents usually do start off pretty ignorant; thankfully, our members have learned). And, again, who do you want someone looking for answers to LEARN from? When it came to kids, by helping parents here, we were keeping parents away from the chelation nuts. When it comes to NT children of ASD parents, I'd like to keep their NT children distant from those like the women who wrote the article on the last page, and all who follow her. That is a whole group that talks as if convinced that no one with ASD should ever marry or raise children at all; really, do you want anyone only getting their information from them? I don't think like finding like is always a good thing. Wrong Planet is a support board for those with ASD, but sometimes carrying out that mission requires listening a little and working with someone who is not ASD. Think of Jenufa's mom as the member if that helps, how do you serve her interests? Same as the reason some of ASD single adults post on Parenting: for the sake of the ASD children of those seeking input.

If you all think we need to either reconsider this thread or change the moderator note at the start of it, we can talk about that and present it to the current moderator team. This is just how I feel about it, and I have no authority to make my will anyone else's. Although I am certainly free to sell it.

End of sales pitch.

Thanks.

On paragraph 2, *I* want you to talk with you here, if you want to. I think there is also something to be learned from carrying out the conversation in an open room and seeing how those with ASD view it. But, there is also always PM. You raise some questions that are useful to me both as a daughter to a father who must have been ASD, and as a mother raising a son who is diagnosed ASD, and that I"d really like to get grandchildren from someday

As far as the perceived emotional development, I'd like you to think of your mother having to live in a world that she has always had little chance of fully understanding, and that has always been unfair to her. What is the natural response? She is smart, that she knows, so what is she going to do? She is going to try to prove it, and try to get others to acknowledge it. What else does she have?

Second, think of having a developmental delay that no one recognizes, then reaching a certain age still having certain things to learn, but no one willing to teach you, because they now assume that you do know, and are either playing games or trying to be manipulative. How does one learn the next step of emotional development in that situation? THAT is what our parents faced.

I can tell you that with my son its been a whole different pattern. He is from one of the first groups of kids to have the opportunity to grow up in the new model, and get support through the crucial years. It is so DIFFERENT. When challenges arose, I saw how the existence of the challenges was starting to beat him down, force him into a protective shell and, thus, change his emotional development. It was a defense mechanism for him, that turn towards the way your mother seems to be and my father was. But by getting my son the help he needed, and understanding what was going on, he could drop the self-defense mechanisms and be back on track. I SAW these swings, these patterns. It was fascinating and educational. Is he like an NT child? Not at all. But he is amazing. I think the biggest difference between him and my father is that my son is 100% comfortable in his own skin, able to meet challenges as they come at him, but not feeling like he has to prove himself to anyone. My father never had the luxury of living life that way. In my eyes, this is so HUGE.

I believe that many of the most difficult, outward traits of the autistic spectrum get developed re-actively, as self-protection. Subconsciously, usually. By being aware of what someone needs and removing the need for self-protection, many of those traits will form very differently. I believe that because that is what I think we are witnessing with this new generation of children. Hey, I could be all wet - I'm not a psychologist. I'm just a mother watching and trying to learn.

Some of who you and I are was, no doubt, self-protective, too. That is a more difficult pattern for me to see, because I didn't observe myself objectively from infancy. But key, when I read this thread, are things like the rigidity and the difficulty with social situations. Those traits are hard on NT children, and an ASD parent needs to try and accommodate for that. Which, if you read any of our threads for ASD parents, they know. Knowledge changes everything.

What did I do to adapt? Well, one, was openly defy my father a LOT. As a teenager, his will was usually enacted through "I won't pay for that." So, I earned the money myself. I acquired my own musical instrument and joined band. I tried out for cheer leading and earned the money for the uniform and cheer leading camp. When my younger sister got interested in drama, I offered to pay the fees and drive her everywhere she needed to go. I got myself a scholarship so that I could go out of state for college. And so on. I do NOT accept "no" as an answer very easily, lol - a trait that rattled my father but, ultimately, that he admired because none of this was rebellious stuff, it was all important to succeeding as who I uniquely am (he eventually told me so).

Shoot, that trait served me well just this morning, we had a minor set back on something my daughter was signed up to do, and she was ready to just turn around. Not me. My children aren't learning to do that all on their own, but I am hoping they can eventually learn from my modeling it and talking about it. It is so very useful.

On the negatives, well, my sister and I all have had trouble forming permanent relationships. I was married at 36, my younger sister at 42, and my older sister not yet. Who knows all the factors involved in that, since we do have a long family history of late marriage, but I do think the ASD is involved in there somewhere. And the fact that there just weren't any males I was ever natural with, since I had sisters and no brothers.

Well, that might be enough to play around with for a while. And I've got to get ready to go out to dinner with my son. My husband is out of town and my daughter has a sleep over, so we have a date Now, how many 16 year olds think it is nice to go out to dinner on a Saturday night with their mothers???? There are some very nice things about ASD, too.

DW_a_Mom,

I have zero issues with people coming on here asking legitimate questions. I do not mind people coming on here with misconceptions. We all have them and it is a continuous process in learning and shedding them, NT and ASD, alike.

My main issue, at the moment, is that, while I think the current Moderator Note is effective as a trigger warning, I don't like that it is being interpreted as a means to segregate the topic from parents and others on the spectrum. Maybe it would be helpful if an addition was made that makes it clear that AS people are welcome to comment on here if we so choose, so that new NTs are aware that we are in the audience.

I agree that there have been many more problematic posts on this thread in the past. I also understand your long-term philosophy and the fact that you want to attract more NTs to better educate them. I don't disagree with that, and most NTs who come on here, both new and established, are great. I would hope you would know, from my prior posts on threads that you are on, that I greatly respect your input in particular.

Just in addressing the more current conversation, I think there have been very constructive comments posted in response by AS members. I think we made a concerted effort to engage the poster, constructively, and I think we were dismissed as being defensive and irrelevant because we have ASD. I, personally, repeatedly attempted to convey that AS points of view would be constructive to the discussion and was by-and-large ignored. As I have stated before, many AS parents of AS kids are apt to have AS parents. Why would that insight not be valued? That is fine, by itself. I don't expect everyone to value my commentary. However, I got the distinct idea that the poster was looking specifically for negative correlations, and receiving validating commentary on those correlations, specifically by excluding AS input, entirely, and intended to shoo us away from a thread that we have every right to be on. If we see misconceptions that appear to be based in prejudice, I think we not only have the right but a responsibility to point it out. Otherwise we are not educating anyone.

I think it is fair to tell posters when we think they are projecting their parents' issues onto us or taking things that are general parenting issues and making them into AS issues, when we do not think they are. Posters are also free to disagree with us, and naturally it can be a discussion. However, only welcoming other NT voices smacks of NT privilege (for lack of better phrasing, b/c I am sleepy(not due to my AS)) and I think it is not really difficult to understand why this would be received badly on an AS board, after this has been pointed out, which I think we have done pretty clearly. In addition, I think it is natural to dislike clear statements that are made about regular AS posters being the source of inevitable -inappropriate- commentary due to their AS. Any new poster (especially one with NT social superpowers) should know that she is apt to make etiquette lapses on a board that she is unfamiliar with and maybe not blame it all on the resident Aspies.

Posting here feels increasingly difficult and frustrating. It's a bit like growing up in the Colonies and arriving in London - we speak the same language, but we don't understand each other. Things which I've written which seem to me carefully-phrased and neutral are consistently perceived as wildly offensive. To me this is a bemusing experience, one I have not had on any of the other internet forums in which I have participated. I am not blind to the innuendo of what I have just written; maybe this is how many AS people feel most of the time. I appreciate the fact that this forum is chiefly for those living with AS, rather than those who, like me, are seeking in retrospect to understand the impact of AS on a formative part of their lives. It has certainly never been my intention to cause offense, any more than it has been to make sweeping statements, and I apologize to any who have experienced my comments as offensive or sweeping for the annoyance or pain they seem to have felt.

I can see that my interpretation of the opening statement on this thread as meaning that it was largely aimed at the NT offspring of AS parents is questionable or inaccurate. However, there really seems to be a fundamental disconnect. AS offspring of AS parents seem to have a different perception of their childhood experiences from those of NT offspring of AS parents (and sorry to those who see this statement as a sweeping generalisation). As the NT child of an AS mother (and no, I don't have social superpowers, and no, I'm not free of psychological limitations), I experienced a specific set of problems, and it has been revelatory for me to discover, recently, that I am not alone in this - that others have experienced similar problems. Of course everyone's different, and of course AS parents can be great. Unlike some other people who have posted on this thread, I didn't grow up on the streets, I wasn't malnourished, and I never consciously doubted that I was loved by my AS parent. And still it is the common experiences that interest me - what that fundamental disconnect meant for me as a young child, how the things connected to my mother's AS affected my development. This is not AS-bashing, it is not about sweeping statements, it is a genuine search for understanding.

Even claiming to be NT on this forum seems to strike a wrong chord, and some of the responses to my posts seem to be saying, "I bet you're on the spectrum too, but you're in denial about it. Fool." As all daughters grow up to become their mothers in some way or other, it's something I worry about. I suffer from mild misophonia, and I can be a bit obsessive, so there you go - but on every kind of test I score about 3 out of 100 for Asperger's characteristics, so I don't think I am. Still, we learn how to interact with the world from our parents, most of all between the ages of 0 and 3, so I don't see how I could possibly not have been affected by my mother's AS, and I'm very interested in understanding what is inherited and learned and how that squares with who I am.

Nevertheless, the message I seem to be receiving here is: Go away. You're not like us. You're not welcome.

To me, a response to something I've said which refers to shoving my words up rectal passages is not OK, but saying this has generated a chorus of opposition which feels rather like mobbing.

Perhaps - probably - I should, therefore, go away. But seriously - where CAN the NT offspring of AS parents go to share experiences and gain a better understanding of what happened to them as children? Is there a "safe space" for us anywhere out there? Because this doesn't feel like one.

It is really, really not that hard to keep from offending people. We really do not speak as different a language as you seem to think we do. We have different perspectives, sure, but to learn about them, you have to open your mind. The basic rules of etiquette used in the outside world will serve you well here, most of the time. When it does not, it will make others inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt. I have found this to be true in most places.

Many of us can use idioms and sarcasm and have other nifty linguistic skills. Don't disingenuously claim not to understand them if you scored 3/100 on an Aspie test. You know darn well Adamentium did not tell you to literally stick anything up your "rectal passages." He used a well-known and frankly pretty mild idiom. It does not warrant pearl-clutching. (For clarity this is also a figure of speech--not the literal clutching of pearls : ) I also do not literally think you have NT superpowers, and I think you know that as well.

I think you are tone deaf to the purposes of this board and how to conduct yourself here, and seem to have little humility about it or interest in adapting yourself. You are rigidly trying to re-purpose an existing thread that you did not start, to a very specific hyperfocus and get frustrated when everyone else does not fall in line. That sounds like something my 8 year old HFA son would do if he were ever interested in message boards. Once you know more about ASD you will see why this is a logical thing to say that this is AS like. So that is why I said you may not be as NT as you think you are. On this board, autistic is not an insult, veiled or otherwise. If you take it as such, that is more growth you need to experience. That was me attempting to give you a reason as opposed to just 100% ascribing it to entitlement

Alternatively, If you are 100% NT, and you are not tone deaf and if you are doing it intentionally, that comes off as being entitled. No one on this board owes you a place to vent with impunity, where you can say anything you want, offend people, and then take no responsibility and issue non-apology - apologies. No place on earth entitles anyone to that. That comes off as self-centered, especially, if it is not part of a spectrum diagnosis. It is not all about you. Again, something my son needs desperately to learn. Not an insult. Simply fact.

In the real world, if you want understanding, you need to give it in return. Reciprocity = again, an NT skill. All of these are skills that apply in the NT world. All skills that will serve you well, here. Do not treat us like non-persons, and do not throw nasty little comments out there about our social skills while simultaneously going out of your way to emphasize how much more you value NT responses over anyone else's while you are in a neurodiverse space. It is like going into someone's home and insulting them.

Dismissing all our concerns as AS "touchiness" is tapping into a stereotype to undermine our credibility and treat us as something less than full humans with legitimate concerns. It is analogous to having a disagreement with a woman and referring to her as "overly-emotional" or referring to an African-American as "uppity" and similar types of speech that do not address the underlying arguments or discussions and only serve to dehumanize the speaker. It is a lazy rhetorical use of logical fallacy that amounts to being an ad hominum attack on the speaker as opposed to maturely debating the issue.

Also it may also be nice (though not strictly necessary) if you were to show some appreciation when we try to help you, even if you do not like the tangents or agree with the perspectives given, as opposed to only giving (profuse!) thanks to DW_a_Mom (not that she does not deserve profuse thanks b/c of course she does) for her NTish answers. To make an analogy you may understand, it is akin to not thanking Aunt Gertrude for the tacky Christmas present she sends you, and only pointedly thanking the person who gave you the $100 gift card. You may not like what you were given by Aunt Gertrude, but thanks show that you appreciate the effort, especially if you are profusely thanking the person who gave you the gift card in front of Aunt Gertrude.

If you sincerely want a list of what you said that is offensive, along with explanations, I am sure we can assist you, but I suspect you would not really want that. Honestly, if you reread what you have written and put yourselves in our place, I bet you can figure it out on your own. If you have any specific questions on that, we would be happy to answer those as well.

We do not bash NTs for being NTs, here. That is not the issue we have. We are not remotely telling you to do as the proverbial Romans do. You can act as NT as you like. Again, NT skills help you, b/c they include an ability to show empathy in a way that is more readily understood by others, an ability to show reciprocity, an ability to think from other peoples perspectives, an ability to keep from hyperfocusing solely on your own issues and needs, etc. So it should be pretty easy for you to expand your horizons.

If you can do that, you will do fine, and you will get answers. Will it be efficient and well-focused? Probably not, but if you have been looking for these answers for a long time, and are as determined about it as you say you are, the patience will be worth it. Patience is also a good quality to have. I wish I had more of it, myself. You may have to sort through information you don't agree with, and be respectful about it, but is that really such a big deal?

If you are only looking to talk to kindred spirits for a validation of theories that you have already formulated, that is a form of rigidity( and a control issue.) If that validation is what you want and how you define understanding and healing, acknowledge it, own it and accept that you may find things you did not expect or want in their place. That is life. Evidence that runs counter to initial theories is discovered at one time or another by everyone from regular people to famous, world-renowned scientists. That said, if you are attempting to kick us out of our own space so you can get your healing and understanding b/c you can't get it anywhere else, and you think that is a good enough reason to kick us out of our own space, then understand that this is a selfish impulse. It also shows a lack of gratitude for the initial welcome you received from many of us. That is not an NT vs. AS thing. That is normal human nature to view it this way.

Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 10 Nov 2013, 4:53 am, edited 5 times in total.

With all the drama here, I neglected to comment on your very valid point. My M-I-L is, I suspect, either borderline or narcissistic (and ADD, but that is not her main issue) and I have never had more difficulty dealing with anyone, before. I do not know that much about cluster B, and how to work with it, but I wish I did, b/c it would probably make my life a lot easier.

And yeah, I would like to think we are pretty self-aware on here. I don't know if introspection correlates with either NT or AS. On the one hand, NTs may have an intrinsic edge in evaluating themselves in contrast to others, but I think AS people spend more time ruminating, and acquire self awareness as a coping mechanism. Not sure how it nets out.