Need help with mouthy aspie

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Aspie1
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29 Nov 2017, 7:34 am

underwater wrote:

What I do want to say is that your situation is very fixable, with the help of a decent therapist.

Oh, no way! Most therapists have a one-track mind about "feeeeeelings", and do more harm than good. In fact, therapy was the last straw that pushed me to start drinking. Although, like I said, cvam is an adult. So he'll be able to outsmart a stubborn shrink much better and quicker than I could back in the day. If the cvam does decide to get help, I strongly recommend a psychiatrist over a shrink. Some of the meds they prescribe are nothing short of wonderful. And under no circumstances should his son ever do therapy, unless it's to get antidepressants.

magz wrote:

Aspie1, cvam is not your abusive parents. He came here because he cares but saw he can't do without outside help. He did it instead of taking a shot to forget. I know the situation reminds you of your own childhood but there is no evidence for such a heavy accusations. I hope you just meant to warn him what can happen if the things go really wrong.

First off, my parents weren't abusive intentionally, just clueless. Lucky for me, they were also clueless about my drinking

, just as they were about my smoking after I started during college. And yes, my account was meant to be a cautionary tale for cvam, although I won't share how I got alcohol. Second, cvam is a full-grown man. He won't or shouldn't become unhinged from one instance of the word "ashamed". Not to mention, he has acccess to numerous coping methods that his son doesn't have. So it's not a fair comparison at all.

ASDMommyASDKid
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29 Nov 2017, 9:15 am

Aspie1 wrote:

underwater wrote:

What I do want to say is that your situation is very fixable, with the help of a decent therapist.

Oh, no way! Most therapists have a one-track mind about "feeeeeelings", and do more harm than good.

I don't think this is a big problem for NT adults. I think a lot of them actually want to talk about their feelings and they think it is helpful. I also think there are probably different kinds of shrinks out there with different approaches and adults are in a position where they have the power to fire an ineffective therapist or one who utilizes a method that does not work for them and try a new one. Children are at the mercy of the adults in their lives, and do not have the ability to do this unilaterally, and so are dependent on having responsive parents who take their thoughts seriously. Adults do not have this problem unless they are wards of someone or otherwise infantalized by the system which sometimes can also happen, especially to non NT adults or pregnant women or other classes of people -- but those scenarios are unlikely to happen to the OP.

fluffysaurus
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29 Nov 2017, 9:22 am

bunnyb wrote:

Underwater is right, you are coming up to the hardest years so now is good time to get yourself in a better place so you can help him through them. Kids are cruel and anyone who stands out will cop it. My son made his very first friend when he was 20. He's 22 now and has a couple of friends, but he was always an outcast at school. I understood because I was the same. Being an outcast hurts but it's going to happen. Kids have a sixth sense for when a child is on the spectrum. In my opinion, building his self-esteem is actually more important than trying to teach social skills. Self-esteem gives people resilience.

Oh and just to add, my son is studying law at Uni on a full scholarship and he's nailing it. He always loved talking politics, social issues like inequality etc. He has a photographic memory an auditory eidetic memory. He is one of the clearest thinkers you could ever meet and he's perfectly suited to law. Contrary to what people think, social skills are less important than being able to remember the laws and case law precedents and produce cogent arguments. My son has always had a radar like ability to spot weaknesses, contradictions and faulty logic. I almost pity anyone who will face across a courtroom. He's also passionate about law. He will do whatever he needs to succeed. If he decides he needs to improve his social skills, he will, and he will do it because it will be HIS choice, not because anyone is forcing him to. He has never responded well to being forced to do anything. :lol:

The thing is, a person does best doing something they are passionate about. Whether that's science or law is a decision only your son make.

A useful reminder that just because I wouldn't be able do something doesn't mean other Aspies can't.

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eikonabridge
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29 Nov 2017, 9:46 am

A few days ago my daughter watched a video on YouTube where autism was listed as a mental illness. She thought that it was funny. I did not pay much attention to it. It was only yesterday that she asked me in a more puzzled tone: "Why is autism a mental illness?"

I am just wondering, how other parents address that question?

I mean, if you Google on Internet on parents that have talked about autism to their children, they'll mentioned things like Albert Einstein and paint a picture that autism is not a bad thing. Yet at the same time these parents do agree that autism is a mental illness. (And some parents would describe how they felt an urge to cry when they had to tell their children about autism.) So, they are basically telling their children: "You are defective, but it's not too bad."

Huh?

I don't know what other people tell their children. I had zero problem telling everything to my daughter. I mean, come on. She is fully developed and fully successful. So am I. So, if you tell me that autism is a mental illness, I think you are out of your mind. It's no surprise that she thought it was a joke. I still think it is a joke.

So I told her: I don't think it is a mental illness. I reminded her about the letter I wrote to her on her 8th birthday, where I mentioned many people out there don't understand autism. I told her, some children are lucky, like you and your brother, because your Daddy understands you guys. Other children are not lucky, because their parents and and their teachers don't understand autism, so those children never really get a chance to develop. That was all.

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eikonabridge
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29 Nov 2017, 10:15 am

fluffysaurus wrote:

bunnyb wrote:

Oh and just to add, my son is studying law at Uni on a full scholarship and he's nailing it. He always loved talking politics, social issues like inequality etc. He has a photographic memory an auditory eidetic memory. He is one of the clearest thinkers you could ever meet and he's perfectly suited to law. Contrary to what people think, social skills are less important than being able to remember the laws and case law precedents and produce cogent arguments. My son has always had a radar like ability to spot weaknesses, contradictions and faulty logic. I almost pity anyone who will face across a courtroom. He's also passionate about law. He will do whatever he needs to succeed. If he decides he needs to improve his social skills, he will, and he will do it because it will be HIS choice, not because anyone is forcing him to. He has never responded well to being forced to do anything. :lol:

The thing is, a person does best doing something they are passionate about. Whether that's science or law is a decision only your son make.

A useful reminder that just because I wouldn't be able do something doesn't mean other Aspies can't.

Why not take a look at mayor of Taipei, Ko Wen-je? A fellow aspie, hugely popular, and elected to the office 3 years ago. He was a top (if not the top) surgeon before he became a mayor. During his first two years, he was such a straight-talker that he annoyed all too many people. But 3 years later, everyone agrees that his "political talking" skills are so advanced that he now qualifies as a real politician.

Here is one of his more popular talks for students. It has closed-caption (CC) subtitle. Yeap, I am the one that made the English version of the closed caption, as a favor to a fellow aspie.

Autism has zero to do with whether a person is social or not. Autism is how your brain is wired.

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fluffysaurus
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29 Nov 2017, 1:55 pm

^Interacting with people who are wired differently is exhausting though, or at least, I find it is. A couple of hours a day is plenty.

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cvam
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30 Nov 2017, 12:57 am

thanks for your responses, like someone said in one of the messages, I do have the coping skills to deal with negative comments.

I am here because I believe that the home should be a safe place for all kids, more so for kids who have a tough time in the outside world. I grew up in a home where I was rarely scolded, let alone yelled at or called names. The very fact that I was doing this to someone who is among the dearest to me made me come here and seek opinions.

My read on how my son views himself as is a cross between Urkel and Ferris Bueller - clumsy but cool. He thinks that those who pick on him are jealous losers. My efforts so far have been to help him get his physical/social skills to *somewhat* match the mental image that he has of himself. it has been a uphill struggle. he is impatient with tasks that don't provide immediate rewards, be they physical therapy, social skills etc. My frustrations in aligning his skills to his mental self image, coupled with his angry outbursts on having to do tasks that don't provide immediate gratification, lead to my verbalizations of that frustration.

So, I have 3 options:

1> Let him realign his self image with his skillset.. this option probably will be a downer for him

2> Seek more professional assistance in improving his skillsets.. this will lead him to knowing more about his condition eventually..He has been to physical therapists and they were focused only on gastroc tightness/clumsiness.

3> Get better at trying to help him with social skills.. meaning I develop more patience/ learn better techniques to help him.

I intend to give option 3 a serious try before going to option 2. there have been a lot of changes in therapies and their effectiveness over the years. Older aspies might be surprised by what is available out there now.

Not to trivialize ASD, but I do not feel that someone with ASD should limit themselves in thought or ambition. Yes, there are some skills that are lacking, that are coveted by NTs. Very few bald men have been presidents, at least recently, but that didn't stop some from trying.

The reason I expressed the above sentiment is that some folks said that my fear about disclosure belies my negativity around the kid's Dx. No, I don't want him to know yet because I don't want him to create a ceiling for his dreams and ambitions based on what he reads and hears about others with ASD. There might be millions with ASD, but there are none like him - and that is just the nature of ASD.

magz
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30 Nov 2017, 3:54 am

eikonabridge wrote:

I have autism and had some mental ilnesses (depression, anxiety, possible dissociative disorders misdiagnosed with schizophrenia). Autism is my unusual way of processing the reality. Mental illnesses made me unable to process the reality.
So I would just say: Based on my expiriences, I disagree.

cvam wrote:

I am here because I believe that the home should be a safe place for all kids, more so for kids who have a tough time in the outside world. I grew up in a home where I was rarely scolded, let alone yelled at or called names. The very fact that I was doing this to someone who is among the dearest to me made me come here and seek opinions.

Ok, I gave my opinion twice, so I guess you already know it.

cvam wrote:

My read on how my son views himself as is a cross between Urkel and Ferris Bueller - clumsy but cool. He thinks that those who pick on him are jealous losers.

This is exactly how I survived bullying at school. Thinking: they were stupid, not me. This way I had it way better than my NT brother who was all the time trying to get accepted.

To be continued (need to go right now)

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magz
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30 Nov 2017, 6:22 am

OK, back from my therapy. The therapist validated my fight against my father-in-law, saying he was trying to abuse me (treating me like a servant) and I had all the right to fight back. Good. I don't need to be nice to the people who are not nice to me.

Back to the topic:

cvam wrote:

My read on how my son views himself as is a cross between Urkel and Ferris Bueller - clumsy but cool. He thinks that those who pick on him are jealous losers. My efforts so far have been to help him get his physical/social skills to *somewhat* match the mental image that he has of himself. it has been a uphill struggle.

Do you mean you think he is not cool?
TBH, if I was in your son's situation, as you described it, I would genuinely believe you think I am an idiot and you want me to be fixed.

cvam wrote:

1> Let him realign his self image with his skillset.. this option probably will be a downer for him

2> Seek more professional assistance in improving his skillsets.. this will lead him to knowing more about his condition eventually..He has been to physical therapists and they were focused only on gastroc tightness/clumsiness.

3> Get better at trying to help him with social skills.. meaning I develop more patience/ learn better techniques to help him.

4> Let him be who he is with just enough social skills to survive and lots of interests and non-social fun in life.

cvam wrote:

The reason I expressed the above sentiment is that some folks said that my fear about disclosure belies my negativity around the kid's Dx. No, I don't want him to know yet because I don't want him to create a ceiling for his dreams and ambitions based on what he reads and hears about others with ASD. There might be millions with ASD, but there are none like him - and that is just the nature of ASD.

So why the hell you come up with Tesla not Einstein? Or even with Tesla - putting an accent at his commercial failure is like remembering that Mozart died in poverty but forgetting all about his beautiful music! The music, the inventions - let him focus on the beauty!

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ASDMommyASDKid
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30 Nov 2017, 4:25 pm

cvam wrote:

I think you are making some assumptions here. This is like if your son is blond and you were to continually die his hair brown in case he should hear a dumb blond joke and think he is stupid and not reach his potential. Would this be sensible? Or instead, would you teach your son to value himself for who he is, and if he hears a dumb blond joke, let him know these jokes are not destiny. If you believe he has potential, than he will also, no matter what he hears from others.

cubedemon6073
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03 Dec 2017, 10:30 am

cvam wrote:

NO, NO, NO, you're setting your son up to have unrealistic expectations. He needs to hear what is said about ASD and those like him has said. What your son needs to have is to have a realistic view of himself and the world around him. He needs to make his decisions not solely based upon his "dreams" but reality as well. I'm 5'8 and I'm a clutz. What exactly are my chances that I will be a professional basketball player in the NBA? Let's answer this by height. There are other variables as well like atheletic ability.

http://www.nba-allstar.com/players/list ... height.htm

The average player is six foot something. The shortest players are 5'9. My chances based upon height are very remote. Adding in atheletic ability with my motor coordination issues is even more remote.

No, whatever dreams he has, has to be based in reality and one can do this with what is called a SWOT analysis and apply it to him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWOT_analysis

This whole you can do anything you set your mind to and this whole positivity mindset without rationality and critical thinking and analysis is what is screwing up a lot of young people today. A lot of young people have unrealistic expectations because of your mindset.

But, no, you're not going to listen and you're going to keep doing it your way that does NOT f*****g WORK! GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD! YOUR METHODS DON'T f*****g WORK! *Yelling over*

You're not going to listen so why did I even f*****g bother?

cubedemon6073
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04 Dec 2017, 6:39 pm

cvam wrote:

Not to trivialize ASD, but I do not feel that someone with ASD should limit themselves in thought or ambition. Yes, there are some skills that are lacking, that are coveted by NTs. Very few bald men have been presidents, at least recently, but that didn't stop some from trying.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Why in the hell would one do something that one has an extreme remote chance of success. I talked about the NBA. Why would one concentrate on the NBA and wasting one's energy at something that more then likely one won't have success in? Instead of making decisions based upon wishful thinking let's make decisions based on reality.

Now, what the employment rate of those with disabilities in general?

Let's look at Bureau of Labor Statistics: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/disabl.nr0.htm

It's first sentence says "
In 2016, 17.9 percent of persons with a disability were employed, the U.S. Bureau of
Labor Statistics reported today."

Looking at this stat they have a little under 3 to 4 ratio of either being unemployed or not in the labor force.

If I was a parent of a disabled child because of this stat I would do my best to save up for him or her or I would employ them myself.

kraftiekortie
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04 Dec 2017, 8:37 pm

Muggsy Bogues is 5 foot 3. And he had a long career in the NBA.

But....most players in the NBA are over 6 feet tall.

cubedemon6073
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05 Dec 2017, 9:05 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Muggsy Bogues is 5 foot 3. And he had a long career in the NBA.

But....most players in the NBA are over 6 feet tall.

I stand by what I say. That's awesome that Muggsy accomplished this but for every Muggsy how many of those who could not accomplish it who are his height. Like you said most players are over 6 feet tall. So, why would I go for something that in which the probability is high I won't achieve it. Wouldn't my energy be better spent elsewhere?

What this as*hole of a man is doing is deceiving his son by omission. He is not letting him fully understand who he is and letting him fully understand the world around him so his son can make an informed decision regarding his own future. Just so he doesn't constrain himself and just so he can beat the odds. So, he's going to keep him in this candyland version of reality in which everything is sanitized and bubble wrapped and be forced to go to these differing appointments without fully understanding why he's going.

No wonder he is extremely mouthy. I'd be mouthy as well.

kraftiekortie
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05 Dec 2017, 11:54 am

I'd have to "be there."

If I had a kid, I wouldn't set unrealistic expectations. If anything, I'd probably be too mellow about the kid's future. I'd think: "whatever makes him/her happy."

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05 Dec 2017, 7:07 pm

cvam wrote:

The idea is not to keep the diagnosis from him forever, just like you don't discuss the birds and bees with an 8 year old NT kid, you don't want to burden the kid with a diagnosis that doesn't really have a cure. No one likes to think of themselves as different, there are some on the spectrum who want to be a part of social groups, just like some of them might want to be left alone with their interests.

If I were to venture a guess, my 12 year old has the emotional maturity of a 8 - 9 year old. I want to talk to him about this when I feel he has the ability to disassociate the diagnosis from how he feels about it.

This has probably all been addressed in the pages of posts I have not read yet, but:

The problem is he already knows he is different and in his own head he developing theories for it. Theories that are wrong and that are getting more and more cemented in his mind with every passing day. The longer you wait, the harder it will be to break the destructive assumptions.

It isn't hard to explain. You just say, "your brain works different" and that it isn't better or worse, just different.

I told my son was he was 7 with the emotional maturity of a 5 year old. It was a relief to him, and it allowed us to tackle strategies in an honest and effective manner.

Honesty and directness are very important to ASD children. He knows you are holding out on him and it is eroding his trust in you. We ask our kids to tackle all sorts of difficult and unpleasant tasks in the hopes of making their future brighter, and in order for them to stay devoted to the process they need to trust that what we are asking really is necessary. In case you haven't noticed, "because I said so" or "I'm the parent and know better" doesn't work very well with most ASD kids.

Next item.

It sounds to me like he is either disgraphic, hypermobile, or both. My son has these, and my short description is that his hands do not work properly. While it is a loss, knowing the problem helps him find work-arounds, like keyboarding. We were able to get a keyboard accommodation for his SATs, as well. Please look into this for OT on the issue could be helpful.

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