Can a district close an IEP w/o parent's written consent ?

Page 6 of 6 [ 96 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

HisMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,271

13 Nov 2014, 12:21 am

zette wrote:
I guess it couldn't hurt to ask for the comprehensive assessment -- my only concern is that it gives them a chance to delay again, and do another half hearted assessment before referring you to the independent educational evaluator, which is where I think you will end up.

I'm not an advocate, though, and probably shouldn't play one on the internet. ;)


Nope, I am very grateful for your feedback. It's one thing to fight the district for your own kid, but it feels like an enormous responsibility to be helping another family fight for theirs... if I screw up, it will harm someone else's kid and that would be hard for me. The sad thing is that there are no advocates who speak their language, so I obviously cannot just direct them to one, and take off... I really think they should improve their English language skills, it would make things easier for them (and help them advocate more strongly for their son).


_________________
O villain, villain, smiling, damnèd villain!
My tables—meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain.
At least I'm sure it may be so in "Denmark".

-- Hamlet, 1.5.113-116


momsparky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,772

13 Nov 2014, 11:34 am

I think you should send the letter. The school is putting pressure on these parents because they are hoping the parents will give up and go away quietly.

Explain to your parents that a social skills class alone is not sufficient. First and foremost, without an assessment the social skills has no specific deficit to target, so they could wind up teaching skills he already has and missing his deficits, and second, without an IEP, if the class they offer fails to help, the parents are stuck with it (which is why the school wants it in a 504.)

An IEP essentially provides a grading system for skills that lie outside of the general education curriculum. In your case, since it is a "functional skill" it provides a framework for you to measure whether the program is succeeding or not - that's what the "goals" part of the IEP is for. Think about it like reading at grade level - the "fluency goal" for all 3rd grade readers is to "consistently read grade level texts with 90% accuracy." (If you have an IEP for academic skills, it outlines the expectations for that child starting from where he or she is academically, as opposed to the grade level expectations.)

Since this boy requires instruction in social skills, you need a gauge to make sure the instruction suceeds: an IEP. Basically, the school is asking you to treat social skills training as though it were a pair of glasses - apply it and the problem goes away. With a 504, they aren't accountable for anything other than providing the accommodation.

Problem is, training/instruction is not an accommodation like glasses, it's additional education. An IEP not only means that the school has to DO it, but they also have to show that what they're doing works, and if it doesn't, to revisit the IEP to provide better/different services that do work.



HisMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,271

13 Nov 2014, 3:09 pm

Momsparky,

Dumb question alert ! If the parents sign the permission slip for the child to participate in the social skills program, would that be taken as an agreement to implement the 504 ? My brain is fried (I am under major stress right now due to my own son's serious health issues) and don't want to give wrong advise to these poor parents. I wish the advocate would be available to meet sooner, but until then, I really seek your help and assistance.

Thanks so much for weighing in on this issue.


_________________
O villain, villain, smiling, damnèd villain!
My tables—meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain.
At least I'm sure it may be so in "Denmark".

-- Hamlet, 1.5.113-116


zette
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,183
Location: California

13 Nov 2014, 3:21 pm

With an IEP you can accept things in part while still disputing other parts.

I think the parents could write something like this on the paper:

"My signature gives agreement for <child> to participate in <social skills class>. It does not indicate overall acceptance of the IEP or 504 plan under discussion."



ASDMommyASDKid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,666

13 Nov 2014, 3:28 pm

His Mom, I hope your son is doing better with whatever issues he is currently having.



momsparky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,772

13 Nov 2014, 6:40 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
His Mom, I hope your son is doing better with whatever issues he is currently having.
Yes, me, too - it's very kind of you to take this on.

I agree with Zette; be prepared that the school will probably insist he can't have the class unless they accept the 504, which is not true. They may be able to delay offering the class, but they are on very weak legal standing without doing all the assessments, etc.. Document all these interactions as well.



zette
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,183
Location: California

16 Nov 2014, 4:15 pm

I went to a lecture by an IEP advocate yesterday, and one of the people in the audience asked what to do if the school tried to switch her child from an IEP to a 504. He said they can't just do that unilaterally if the parent disagrees. The burden is on the school to prove that the child no longer needs the services and accommodations that are in the IEP. The parent should ask in writing for the evidence that shows that the child no longer qualifies for special education. Also, in the letter you need to use the magic words "stay put". Once you invoke your right to "stay put" until the dispute is resolved, the district will have to initiate due process legal action against the parent to remove the child from the IEP.

If you have already sent the letter, no worries, the advocate you are meeting with can always help you write a follow up.
If you haven't sent it yet, you might try something like:

Dear <Principal>,

This is with respect to your telephone message, asking to meet with us to further discuss the outcomes of the IEP meeting held on <date>

We do not agree with the outcome of the meeting, and do not agree that <child> no longer needs the services and accommodations specified in his current IEP. Please provide prior written notice with evidence that <child> no longer qualifies for special education. Until this dispute is resolved, we request that <child> stay put with the current services and accommodations. We agree <child> may participate in <social service class> in the meantime. We also request a comprehensive evaluation of <child>, an independent educational evaluation, and an assessment of all areas of suspected disability.

Thank you,

Sincerely,

<Parent>



HisMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,271

17 Nov 2014, 3:07 pm

zette wrote:
I went to a lecture by an IEP advocate yesterday, and one of the people in the audience asked what to do if the school tried to switch her child from an IEP to a 504. He said they can't just do that unilaterally if the parent disagrees. The burden is on the school to prove that the child no longer needs the services and accommodations that are in the IEP. The parent should ask in writing for the evidence that shows that the child no longer qualifies for special education. Also, in the letter you need to use the magic words "stay put". Once you invoke your right to "stay put" until the dispute is resolved, the district will have to initiate due process legal action against the parent to remove the child from the IEP.

If you have already sent the letter, no worries, the advocate you are meeting with can always help you write a follow up.
If you haven't sent it yet, you might try something like:

Dear <Principal>,

This is with respect to your telephone message, asking to meet with us to further discuss the outcomes of the IEP meeting held on <date>

We do not agree with the outcome of the meeting, and do not agree that <child> no longer needs the services and accommodations specified in his current IEP. Please provide prior written notice with evidence that <child> no longer qualifies for special education. Until this dispute is resolved, we request that <child> stay put with the current services and accommodations. We agree <child> may participate in <social service class> in the meantime. We also request a comprehensive evaluation of <child>, an independent educational evaluation, and an assessment of all areas of suspected disability.

Thank you,

Sincerely,

<Parent>


Zette, momsparky and ASDMommy, bless you all for your warmth and kindness. My son has had significant challenges with his teeth (has poor oral hygiene, won't let us brush his teeth or clean his mouth etc). He just had a lot of fillings and crowns put in and is recovering. But he has also developed sudden aggression (he was always a sweet kid before), has staring spells and only sleeps once every 2 days - despite sleep medications, so I am severely sleep deprived, too. The neuro suspects that he may need to increase his AED medications as the staring spells may be absence seizures... so it's been a tough month for us.

Zette, this letter looks AWESOME. I am about to hit send and will do this right away. Magic words "stay put", indeed ! !! Never thought about that ! Thanks again - very grateful to you kind people for helping a parent in need ! :)


_________________
O villain, villain, smiling, damnèd villain!
My tables—meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain.
At least I'm sure it may be so in "Denmark".

-- Hamlet, 1.5.113-116


zette
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,183
Location: California

17 Nov 2014, 7:05 pm

When is the meeting with the advocate? Here is another strategy -- don't say anything about the IEP and just schedule the meeting with the principal for AFTER the meeting with the advocate, and bring the advocate along with you to meet the principal.



momsparky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,772

18 Nov 2014, 1:39 pm

HisMom wrote:
. My son has had significant challenges with his teeth (has poor oral hygiene, won't let us brush his teeth or clean his mouth etc). He just had a lot of fillings and crowns put in and is recovering. But he has also developed sudden aggression (he was always a sweet kid before), has staring spells and only sleeps once every 2 days - despite sleep medications, so I am severely sleep deprived, too. The neuro suspects that he may need to increase his AED medications as the staring spells may be absence seizures... so it's been a tough month for us


I am so sorry - sleep deprivation on top of all you are doing sounds awful. I hope your doctor is able to help, and I hope that eventually he outgrows the need for AEDs (I would imagine he's feeling sleep deprived, too!)

Take care of yourself - is there any way you can get respite care to help you get a good night's sleep?



ASDMommyASDKid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,666

18 Nov 2014, 3:43 pm

HisMom wrote:
Zette, momsparky and ASDMommy, bless you all for your warmth and kindness. My son has had significant challenges with his teeth (has poor oral hygiene, won't let us brush his teeth or clean his mouth etc). He just had a lot of fillings and crowns put in and is recovering. But he has also developed sudden aggression (he was always a sweet kid before), has staring spells and only sleeps once every 2 days - despite sleep medications, so I am severely sleep deprived, too. The neuro suspects that he may need to increase his AED medications as the staring spells may be absence seizures... so it's been a tough month for us.

Zette, this letter looks AWESOME. I am about to hit send and will do this right away. Magic words "stay put", indeed ! !! Never thought about that ! Thanks again - very grateful to you kind people for helping a parent in need ! :)


I am sorry to hear he is having these problems. We have had a lot of dental issues, as well. We now have a wonderful pediatric dentist who specializes in children with sensory issues. I hope you have the same. It has made a big difference for us.

Aggression is much more complicated and I am sorry you are dealing with that as well. Sometimes it will precede a cycle of skill growth, and I hope that is what is going on with your little guy.



HisMom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,271

18 Nov 2014, 11:02 pm

Thanks, everyone. ASDMommy, thanks for that positive twist ... I hope the aggression is due to skill growth !

He had his dental work done last Friday and we are meeting with his dentist tomorrow to make sure nothing else is going on. Momsparky, don't know if / when he will outgrow the need for his AEDs... if his EEG normalizes that would be HUGE, right there. But these things are out of our control (as most everything else). The advocate can only meet mid-December, so I am really struggling here. We have some respite hours but I don't know if overnight is possible. We'll see !

Now I am going to sound paranoid but need to know.

If you sign the portion where it lists the IEP participants and also that you DON'T agree with the IEP, it's OK, right ? This doesn't sign away your rights or anything ?

Put my incessant questions / paranoia down to severe sleep deprivation, please ! I seem to have lost any and all ability to think now. Thank you all so much again !


_________________
O villain, villain, smiling, damnèd villain!
My tables—meet it is I set it down
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain.
At least I'm sure it may be so in "Denmark".

-- Hamlet, 1.5.113-116


zette
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,183
Location: California

19 Nov 2014, 12:20 am

Quote:
If you sign the portion where it lists the IEP participants and also that you DON'T agree with the IEP, it's OK, right ? This doesn't sign away your rights or anything ?


That is absolutely OK and what I've seen recommended to do. The letter stating the parents do NOT agree with the outcome makes it crystal clear as well.

You might ask the advocate if they can at least look at the draft and make sure there's nothing in it they don't want said before they have time to become familiar with the situation.



momsparky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,772

19 Nov 2014, 6:07 pm

I think the signature just indicates you attended the meeting, but any time you aren't sure what you're signing, put an asterisk by your signature, and then somewhere where there is space on the page, asterisk and "Signature only indicates my presence, but does not indicate agreement with this document" and initial. That's if you want to hedge your bets.

There's a hotline number in one of those links - give them a call and see if they'll be able to help you if you have questions during the meeting.



momsparky
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,772

02 Dec 2014, 1:53 pm

ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
I just thought about this. It may not apply, but I am throwing it out there. When we did the initial eval, there were a lot of questions about home life b/c if they can label something as being a function of home life and not autism, they do not have to cover it in an IEP. The reason that I am mentioning this is b/c if they are this unethical, it is also possible that they try to pin autistic linguistic issues on living in a home with a non-English speaker. (They may not be doing it, so I don't want to make you unduly paranoid, but I would just be aware that this could be why the child is not being offered speech.)


FYI, (did I say this already, sorry if so) they can't do this, either: if you look at IDEA, one of the things that must be covered is parental training. If the school thinks the parents are the cause of the problem, it is up to them to provide the resources to address it.



ASDMommyASDKid
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,666

02 Dec 2014, 2:25 pm

momsparky wrote:
ASDMommyASDKid wrote:
I just thought about this. It may not apply, but I am throwing it out there. When we did the initial eval, there were a lot of questions about home life b/c if they can label something as being a function of home life and not autism, they do not have to cover it in an IEP. The reason that I am mentioning this is b/c if they are this unethical, it is also possible that they try to pin autistic linguistic issues on living in a home with a non-English speaker. (They may not be doing it, so I don't want to make you unduly paranoid, but I would just be aware that this could be why the child is not being offered speech.)


FYI, (did I say this already, sorry if so) they can't do this, either: if you look at IDEA, one of the things that must be covered is parental training. If the school thinks the parents are the cause of the problem, it is up to them to provide the resources to address it.



I may be wrong, but I am not sure that is so if they are going to treat the child as being off the IEP.

At the initial, eval stage, the questions on the forms were designed to tease out socio-economic/language etc. factors. So, I am presuming if they said that a child's delay was due to these other factors and not a disability, that one would not get an educational diagnosis or an IEP. It did not apply to us, but the questions were there for that reason.

I would guess that it would not be a leap to suggest that they might try to pin linguistic issues on a family of non-English speakers as opposed to crediting the autism. I could also see them attempting to handle it through ESL or whatever they thought was cheaper to do. If they can close the IEP, I would guess it would be easier.

That was my thought, anyway. I wasn't saying they could just ignore the issues, but they could certainly handle it sub-optimally as far as the family and the child is concerned.