Do parents respect bad kids more?

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I would think that WAY more often than what you are describing, caring for your childs needs is because you are a PARENT who loves their CHILD and therefor wants to make sure they are healthy and happy. Hungry, tired kids is something every parent wants to avoid. And most kids do fall asleep when put down for a nap because as much as they want to stay up and play their body needs sleep. And Im pretty sure a very very small portion of kids would be making suicide plans during nap time.
Not all households are like yours apparently was. Dont generalize children based off your own experiences. A lot of kids throw tantrums before nap time and then have to be "forced" to nap. You want to know why? Because they are tired. And they need a nap. Thats not a power play, its just good parenting.
Also, why do you assume an NT kid wont be able to "know the truth" the way an aspie kid would? And why do you think all aspie kids can?

I realized when I wrote it that I probably should have approached it differently, but I was tired. And, honestly, I've been going round and round with the same person on what feel like the same issues for about a decade. You and I both can do better at times, and while I know I've been hard on you I'm not going to deny that I can outright blow it, too. All of us want things to be better for the next generation, Aspie1 too, but we all bring our own baggage to the table and sometimes it gets in the way. If we don't call each other out on it, who will?

That was kind of my ideal goal. Once in a while, I tried deliberately misbehaving and/or underachieving in school. By doing that, I hoped my parents would throw in the towel, give up on me, and just leave me to my own devices, like weeds in a garden. Or on a more fantasy-like note, get fed up with me and leave me: either just outside the town limits or at my town's Amtrak station. With a backpack containing my stuffed dog, a loaf of bread, and some clean socks. Then I could basically become a child vagrant, with total freedom and the world as my oyster. (I got this idea from "Hansel and Gretel".) Needless to say, I failed miserably, and my parents ramped up the strictness every time I tried.

You're kind of off-base here. My belief about being the "kindest child ever lived" and ideation about being beatified as a saint were never meant to be "lighthearted humor". I sincerely believed that I was the kindest child to have ever existed in world history. So it was quite the opposite: those beliefs were sad, because I "knew" the world wasn't ready for a kind child like me, and therefore treated me very horribly. My only hope was the notion that someday, the Catholic Church will recognize me as a saint.

I don't know... It seems like aspie kids pick up on hidden truths that NT kids don't. Like naps being a convenient front for a power grab, under the pretext of "caring about a child's health". Maybe not for all families, but for many. NTs either overlook those truths due to their brain wiring, or deliberately deny them to protect their own mental sanity. Because if NT kids saw the full truths that aspie kids can see, the world would run out of antidepressants in just ten days.

Impairment and deficit are part of the diagnosis, not inability. Leaving aside some of the OP's extreme and rigid ideas, plenty of diagnosed people here prove they're capable and willing to learn, and some seem to have gained remarkable insights, uncommon in most people, through doing analytically some of the things NTs do instinctively.

If this is how you see autistic people (I'm talking about what you really think, not about how diplomatic you might try to be about it), why do you even engage with them? It would make you right and them wrong in almost any instance due to their alleged "inability to see and understand things accurately"?

Aspie1: As a parent myself, I consider your parents' behaviour indefensible and you obviously carried the damage and trauma way into your adult life, as all your views and significant choices are still being influenced by their words and actions. I think it might be useful to stop obsessing about their motivations, let go of the past and free yourself of this influence. Now you still allow them to rule your life, even if just by deciding to do things to oppose and "punish" them.

That post does not accurately reflect my thoughts. It isn’t about diplomacy, it is about whether or not I wrote what I was really thinking. Putting thoughts into words is tricky at times; I think one thing and I type something else. It reads one way to me and entirely differently to someone else.

Do the ASD individuals I know in real life fail to understand other people’s motives and actions? YES. My son’s assumptions have so often been so off base it’s humorous. In this thread Aspie1 was trying to get inside someone else’s head. I think that is an inexact science for anyone, but worse if you have ASD. I don’t put much stock in anyone’s assuming they can know someone else’s feelings and motivations, and I’m not fond of watching people try to reach broad sweeping conclusions about the world from a personal observations that can have been read completely wrong.

I realize at times we have to make assumptions about another person’s thoughts, but there is a difference between assuming and knowing.

I love the way people like my ASD son think, even when it leads them astray. My son’s twists are usually benign, but that isn’t going to be true for everyone. Assuming that parents respect “bad” kids I don’t think would be benign.

Conversations on these boards helped me understand my son better. It was an incredible gift. Even though he’s grown now I sometimes stop by in hopes of returning that gift. Some days I’m on the mark, other times I seem to have posted from outer space. I used to be more consistently helpful when I was in the thick of helping my son navigate a confusing world. I guess that magic instinct decided not to stick with me after he grew up.

Didn't force a nap on my son, I couldn't understand why he was so grumpy and had behavior and never listened to me. My mom told me it was because he was over tired and he needed to take a couple naps a day. I then learned that parents didn't give their kids naps because they're lazy and they don't want to be parents and because they wanted me time, they were doing it so their kids could have better behavior so they were not so tired and so they could go to sleep a lot easier at bed time. Thank you mom.


My kids are allowed to dislike food but my son is a picky eater so he doesn't get this option because he will dislike any food out there and prefers candy and stuff so he will all of a sudden not like the food we made.

While I do have warm clothing, I find it better to not fight them to wear it but I will take it with us so that way when they are cold, they have something warm to wear. If they won't wear warm clothing, they can't go outside. If we are just going to be in the car or just going to be inside, I don't fight it.

My kids just did take naps on their own free will... or they didn't. The older one didn't want naps and there was no way to make her sleep. The younger one had her particular way of being irritable that signalled she needed to sleep. She went to lower kintergarden at 1yo and I didn't like when she had a nap there because then she stayed awake till late evening and there was no way to put her asleep. If she didn't have a nap, she fell asleep at 7pm and slept till the morning.

My older one is a picky eater, too. She is a descendant of several generations of picky eaters, including me and my mother And what those generations have learned - forcing is a way to make it worse. Yes, she would prefer candies, this is why I did not allow her to eat candies or drink anything sugary. No candies in the house is the best tactics - it also helps with my husband's compulsive eating.
Then I offer her relatively balanced meals of things she relatively likes.

This was a valuable thread so far, and it even taught me about "goodness" vis-a-vis respect. But still, let's agree on this: family living requires TREMENDOUS social skills on the child's part. To negotiate down punishments, to get their wishes that normally get shut out (like pizza toppings), to persuade parents not to put them down for a nap, etc. It's where NT kids excel and aspie kids fail. After all, social skills are one of aspies' biggest impairments.

Let's bring "goodness" into the equation. Bad kids tend to be more aggressive, and that's not always a bad thing. It means they negotiate more aggressively too, which gets parents to respect them and their wishes more. Good kids, on the other hand, tend to be people-pleasers; they don't know how to be aggressive, so they resort to giving in to appease. It pleases their parents in the short run, but it doesn't get parents to truly respect them, because parents KNOW they can always shoot down the child's wishes. They may not always do it, but the option is there with good a good kid. In the long run, if a child is too "good" to negotiate down a simple nap or pizza, he may grow up into an adult who's too "good" to negotiate down extra work duties with no corresponding raise.

It took me until age 30 to learn to negotiate in the workplace. And it was an expensive labor lawyer who taught me some of those skills, AFTER I went to a hospital for a stress-related illness. Today, I enforce strong boundaries at work, even at the expense of my boss's approval and/or people "liking" me. They grumble when I leave on time or reject requests for help during my lunch, but they can't stop me, since I follow both the company policy and the letter of labor law. And I'm not above using appropriate scare tactics and loopholes to push back when needed. So when I occasionally agree to stay until 8:00 PM, bosses sincerely thank me, rather than treat it as something to be expected. (Not unlike parents vis-a-vis good grades.)

So perhaps a conventional family isn't the best living arrangement for a lot of aspie kids. Sadly, there are no known alternatives, at least not in real life. And negotiation skills aren't taught in schools until upper high school grades, if at all. Teachers and administrators want obedient minions, not negotiators. In the book "Island", there are Mutual Adoption Clubs, where kids are free to move in and out within a group of families. That seems VERY aspie-friendly to me. But it's fiction.

Interesting comments but I can't agree with all of it. First, I've never bought into the power dynamic you've always been so stuck on. I won't say it's never there, but it doesn't permeate every thought and action in the way you seem to think (although I accept that different parents may vary). It also is NOT a child's job to get their parents to see their needs; it is the parent's job to figure out the child's needs. My son wasn't a kid who needed naps and no amount of conversation or social skills from him could have taught me that; I knew it because I SAW it. It was MY JOB to understand that, and not force an issue that needed to exist. It would have been much easier for me if that had been different or if I could just have just used "power" to overcome it (sooooo much easier; you have no idea the preschool conflicts that arose from this one little fact) but that isn't how it works.

Don't confuse needs and wants. A child should have their needs met, but when it comes to wants the answer will always be "it depends." I'm not going to feed a child endless sweets no matter how well they express the want; they are too young to understand the long term negative effects of sugar, and I have an obligation to not increase their heart attack risk by age 4.

Don't confuse meekness and goodness. Good children can assert themselves and, in fact, in American society, SHOULD assert themselves. If your parents tell you to steal from someone else, are you a "good" child to do their bidding without protest? I would say the answer is a simple "no," although a child only knows what they've been taught, and I wouldn't blame the child (depending on age and other influences) for the theft. The parents may tell the child they are good for following their bidding, but in a situation like theft it would be pretty twisted. I think I raised two amazingly "good" children, but it would be inaccurate to say they never challenged me. They challenged me ALL THE TIME. What made them good kids were their hearts, and their desire to do the right thing by us, other people and the world in general in all situations, even when their immaturity meant they weren't able to accurately understand what that would be. We had some VERY interesting conversations over the years, but that desire usually shone through to me (I admit it was harder to see it before I knew my son was ASD; that diagnosis helped us soooo much). It was MY job to know if that was there or not, and what I was working with, not that I always called it perfectly.

In a job situation, if you set boundaries going in, that is the best. It serves no one if you get stressed out, burned out and resentful. We all have different needs and knowing what our own "boxes" should look like so we can contribute value is important. Lying about it to get a job to me would be dishonest; but stating it upfront is a healthy understanding of what you need. "Good" people try to get jobs that are mutually beneficial for them and the employer. But what would you do if you knew a client needed something the next day and you knew you were the best person to do it? To me, a "good" person steps up in that moment. If those moments happen too often the boss isn't running his business right, but if they only happen infrequently, stepping up is the team player thing to do. This whole conversation is funny, though, because I would never have placed the terms "good" or "bad" onto something like saying "I won't work overtime." It's a negotiation, and business wouldn't be business without negotiations. Bosses aren't parents; their job isn't to "raise" the employees; their job is to get the best results for the company as a whole. Not something I usually think about in "good" or "bad" terms so I'm kind of thinking on the fly here, and hoping I'm writing accurately. There are times "good" and "bad" apply in the workplace; that isn't what I mean; it's with the specific context your mentioned.

As for your ultimate conclusion, I think my son would disagree with you. Home, with us, has always been his "safe" place, where he feels understood and able to be his most true self with the least negative judgement. If we could move that to the middle of nowhere in a camping situation with trees and one or two good friends that would probably be his heaven. But, in general, for home to be the "safe" place for any child is how it should be, and it is very often true for ASD children in today's world. I think when you were growing up it was less likely for home to feel safe; ASD wasn't as well understood and parents were often doing a pretty horrible job with it. You had it rough, and I will always wish for you that it could have been different. But the ASD kids I know today are thriving and happy in their families far more often than not. I am glad for that; families have always been inconsistent, and many children of all nuero types suffer in their families; all we can do is hope it continually gets better.

Aspie1, it was Socrates' belief that no one did wrong doing intentionally and anyone who did wrong was ignorant. It is ignorance that causes our problems. We don't really have your parent's point of view on things and they may have thought they were doing right by you. My parents made decisions for me as a child to me seem on the surface as bad but when I think it through with various discussions with them I've come to conclude they made the best possible decisions for me at the time. Yet, I'm on SSDI even though they did their best for me. Am I angry with them? No, it would not make sense for me to be angry with them. Truth is, they really didn't understand Aspergers as it was not in the DSM at the time.

I think (others may not agree) that we should seek the truth or the most approximate of truth we can get to in all situations. And, I think the enemy of truth is error. Error is caused by ignorance. I think lack of truth and ignorance causes a number of our issues as humankind. In other words, are you sure you are right my friend? How do you know that the assumptions that you're laboring under with regards to the parent-child dynamic is based in truth? Even if what you say is true how do you know that it applies in all or most cases?

For one, we aspies don't think like NTs so we will see things differently then they do. But, within NTs and aspies there are differences. No one is exactly alike.

There are partens like that.
There are parents not like that.

My inlaws started to respect my needs when I started shouting at them and insulting them. Sad, I didn't mean to, but when I was trying to nicely and politely tell them of my needs, they just didn't take it seriously. I'm not used to that, my parents would become extremely hostile if I was like that to them - but my parents do pay attention to polite remarks.

So my expirience is - there are people who will step over you when you are polite and learn to respect you only when you show agression. And there are people who are nothing like that. Both kinds may become parents. Yours are probably the former kind.

So you people think neurotypicals are just lemmings who copy each other, but want glory for being some obedient follower?

First, kids arent really in a place to "negotiate down punishments". That literally defeats the purpose of a punishment. The kid did something wrong, and there are consequences. Simple.
Second, pizza toppings is not a big deal. And since when do you need "tremendous social skills" to ask for pepperoni instead of cheese??
Third, lots of young kids need naps and it is essential to their physical and emotional well being. It is important for the parent to see that and make the kid take a nap regardless. The kid doesnt know any better, but will thank them in the long run.
Fourth, you need to stop generalizing NT and Aspie so much. Plenty of NT kids might be meek little pushovers, and plenty of Aspie kids are perfectly capable of standing up for themselves.



I thought we had already shot down the notion of "good kid vs bad kid"? Well behaved children can be assertive too. Just because you're a people pleaser doesnt mean you're a doormat.
Also, see number "4" above.



You know what people dont like in a work place? Bossy, arrogant, better-than-thou, obsessively rule following, control freaks. No offense, but it doesnt sound like you made "strong boundaries", it sounds like you built walls around yourself. Employers appreciate workers who get along, help others, go the extra mile, and seem passionate about their work. Not like they're counting down the minutes till the minute their shift is over. And employers that see those positive traits would be more willing to negotiate higher pay in the long run.



The conventional family is perfectly fine for many Aspie kids so long as the parent is understanding. Being Aspie shouldnt be used as an excuse to get what you want. My parents did their best to treat me no differently than my perfectly NT brothers, and so I was raised with a strong foundation and good manners, morals, and behavior. Including respect for authority.
Teachers and administrators dont want "obedient minions". Sure, you should be able to follow the damn rules (thats literally why theres rules...I dont why you think you're exempt from that) but they also want curious and creative thinkers. Especially in higher level classes, teachers enjoy when you question things and come at something from a different angle.
Also, the reason that book is fiction, is because it would never work in actual society. Honestly, I could write a whole new novel on how terrible of an idea that sounds.

A. what's wrong with following the rules?

B. Ok, if the s**t hits the fan are they going to go the extra mile for Aspie1? In fact, are Aspie1's coworkers and bosses willing to be a team player, come to his house and help him with his chores sometimes? I know they're not. So, why is he obligated to go the extra mile if they're not willing to go the extra mile for him? Why should Aspie1 stress himself out to a f*****g stroke for those who won't do the same for him and can fire him at anytime for any reason or no reason at all? I mean, come the f**k on with the double standards.

C. "passionate about their work" And, why does one have to be passionate about their work? I will do the work b/c it is my duty to do it, it needs to be done and I'm being paid unless I'm choosing to volunteer. But, I'm not going to be passionate for something I don't like especially at a time I don't wish to come in. But, I do it if I had to. But passionate? Not if I don't feel passionate. You're asking someone to lie and you're asking a square peg to fit a round hole. Next employers will want their employees to kiss their bosses shoes. I mean, geeze louise.

He's doing the right thing for his own mental and physical health. Maybe he won't get promotions but promotions are not worth f*****g oneself up and for what more money for more possessions you can't take with you to the next life?

First, negotiating down punishments is perfectly fine. Because family rules are arbitrary. They don't come from the government, like the speed limit. They don't come from nature, like gravity. They don't come from god, like the Ten Commandments. They're something parents make up and enforce, acting as the judge, jury, and executioner. Then what's so bad about using social skills to counter that? I mean, accused criminals can negotiate down their sentence by plea-bargaining their crime. Then why can't kids---good or bad---negotiate down their punishments?

Second, asking for pizza toppings is very much a social skill. Many a time, when my family did a pizza night, with or without extended family members coming over, everyone got their pizza toppings of choice but me. Whenever I tried to ask for mushrooms on pizza, I was told to "WAIT!", only for my turn to never come. If I were a bad kid, I'm sure I'd find a way to get mushrooms---by cunning or by force---as opposed to saying "mushrooms, please" and getting blithely ignored. Ditto for seeing museum exhibits of choice on family outings, and any group family situations.

Third, how would you feel if your kid was using his nap time to make suicide plans in his head, while lying wide awake the whole time? Think about it: he's young enough to nap, and already thinking those thoughts. How's that for "physical and emotional health"? I bet you'd sing a whole different tune, if your kid were like me.

Fourth, OK fine, I concede. You have a point.