Raised by Aspergers parent

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Answers Finally, I think you did have a particularly horrible time. I can see why you said that about AS people shouldn't have children.

I think you could probably see as well that it's possible for AS people to focus their special interest on child development and on understanding other people, and when that happens then they can be not merely adequate but great parents. When you say that if they can empathise enough to care about children then they can't have Aspergers, I think that's that whole discussion about where you draw the line, how you define AS and what you say about people who fit the diagnostic criteria as children but grow out of it in later life.

This is an interesting thread. I stand by what I said in earlier posts and I am pretty certain that parents who are insensitive to their children's needs should not have children. Children need parents who are sensitive to their needs. It just basic. The fundamental task of a parent. End of story. To the extent a parent is sensitive to their children's needs is the extent to which they are adequate as parents regardless of ability. It is true that I am very much influenced by my own experiences as a person who does not have AS, raised by two parents with AS who are clueless. I have spent time pondering what could cause parents to be as cruel as mine seemed to be. And, part of my confusion was due to trying to interpret my parents' behaviors in light of typical and usual behavior. Now I understand that they have a disability. They were very poor parents. They learned nothing about parenting from their own parents. My mother appears most comfortable when she is able to alienate relatives on any side of the family and in generations above and below-although she appears to expect that her offsping ensure that the grandchildren are loving towards them in the way they would be towards maternal and paternal grandparents. The hypocrisy is glaring. My parents dressed their offspring oddly with my mother making the clothes, but my father would never have gone to a formal meeting in casual attire and his suits came from the most expensive store in their city-second to known in the world. He always dressed appropriately for the business occasion. What did that mean? Well, he dressed in a way acceptable to his peers. He went to formal meetings in formal attire; to black tie affairs in black tie attire. And his offspring? We went oddly dressed as dorks to our business meetings-that is school-to endure the ridicule of our peers. Begging for typical clothes. Why? What were my parents' goals? My mother would make our clothes and cut our hair. We were subjected to the very worst ridicule. I would cry each morning and beg not to be sent to school. And my mother? She simply thought about her own little intense interest. She went through her babble in another extinct (and we know why) language period, her veggie of the week period, and her very expensive esoteric hobby period-while her offspring were simply miserable. They dragged offspring who got carsick on endless car trips in search of her latest collection obsession. They dragged their AS offspring on esoteric vacations into countries with different languages when the offspring could barely deal with a change from hotdogs to pasta. They thought that their offspring's fears were cute and funny and simply laughed at them because they lacked theory of mind and could not place themselves in the shoes of their offspring who were 26 years junior to them. They took annual trips to Europe to see plays but denied their offspring tv, theater, a play in a local theater, music, art (too parochial), bowling, golf, and on-denied their offspring anything and everything that would allow them to be typical and social and enjoy life. They were too "intellectual" (read _limited and aspie-ish) to enjoy life and they were disappointed if their offspring enjoyed such things and they were hellbent on making sure that their offspring were rejected by the s society that they rejected and that their offspring longed to be part of. And superficial? I have not yet met an Aspie whose interests were any more significant than the superficiality of the masses! Pets don't care if they are dressed appropriately. By the time they are adopted by humans they have outgrown the need for a sensitive parent (something that all life forms above ameba need). Too bad if this seems too strong or offensive. Consider these issues as I am sure that most typical offspring of Aspies have similar issues.

I am convinced my father was AS and my experiences were nothing like yours.

I have a sister in law who is not AS but is raising children who may well feel about her someday as you did your mother.

AS isn't the decisive factor here.

i have seen NTs who shouldnt have kids.Today at work, a woman left her baby, who was only a few months old, alone in the vehicle.It was about 25 degrees celsius outside, which is very hot.The car had no air conditioning on.The window was open, but that is an open opportunity for a car thief to steal the car with the baby in it, or a child snatcher to come and take the baby.I was outside balancing the shopping trollies and some concerned customers approached me.I called the supervisor on my price checker phone.The store was going to call the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) if the woman didnt come out when she did.She panicked when she saw me reading her license plate on the phone and basically threw her groceries into the car and drove off.She didn't even return her trolley and get her loonie ( Canadian 1 dollar coin) back.

AnswersFinally, my guess is that probably about half the people on WrongPlanet had at least one AS parent, because ASCs are highly genetic. However when people talk about their own parents the experience is very varied. I think that you did have a particularly hellish time, that was anything but typical of what most children of Aspies go through. For AS children, an AS parent can often understand them better than an NT parent could.

My parents had many autistic traits, but in general they turned this to our advantage and they were passionate about us children. For example, they called one of the rooms in the house the "playroom", instead of the dining room, which it would have been for most people. We were never in any doubt that they adored us and to some extent they watched out for each other's obsessions. Mum insisted we observed the strictest church attendance, so Dad worked hard to find churches that were entertaining - we attended mass in beautiful churches with gorgeous mosaics, lively churches with happy singing, awesome cathedrals with amazing exquisite singing, monasteries with wonderful gardens and kind friendly monks and nuns. Dad was pretty hopeless in the kitchen, so Mum made an obsession of sensible eating on the tightest of budgets. We were odd in many ways, but our schoolfriends thought we had the best packed lunches in the world, with freshly baked scones, biscuits, baked chicken... Dinner was always eaten altogether round the table, and we always had delicious homecooked food and puddings.

Yes there were downsides but I am not going to talk about them publicly, they weren't unforgiveable.

How old are your kids now, and how are you raising them? A thing that I find is that having had eccentric parents, I sometimes am not sure what is the right thing to do. Because I thought I would be too detached and quiet, I am obsessive about playing with my gorgeous daughter (she is 2) and talking to her and so on, and I have her go to a very sociable childminder so she has a strong experience of a different more sociable life than I could provide.

I can relate to some of what answersfinally is saying, but I have also tempered my personal experience with the knowledge that AS is such a broad continuum. I believe that my mother, who wasn't diagnosed with AS until her 40's, would have been a much better parent had she been diagnosed as a child and given insight and tools to moderate her behavior and perspectives. AS it was she was also raised in an awful environment, and had no idea that she had AS. As she was a single mom I grew up in a pretty harsh environment with only her rigidity, hyper-critical approach to almost everything and embarassing social interactions as a parental experience. It wasn't until I was a teenager that I finally realized I wasn't always doing things the wrong way, just a different way than her. And when she was finally diagnosed we were able to work through some of this together and improve our relationship a lot. I do still occassionally have a nightmare I have had since I was young, where I am really really sad and crying and trying to tell her about it and she is correcting my grammar or telling me to use "I statements". Definitely a nightmare of someone raised by a parent with no theory-of-mind!!

On the other hand I have to say that she is an incredible grandmother to my son, who has inherited her AS gene, and since she is now more aware of herself and her impact on others she and I get along better and better all the time. Now that I have a good understanding of AS I can also say things to her like the other day when she told me I was laying the folded laundry down the wrong way and I said gently "Mom, it is not the wrong way, it's just different than the way you would do it."

So the concern with parents having AS I think should be when they are unaware of their issues, just as every parent who is not self-aware will potentially damage their children. I think for the kids to have support is important too, especially if the AS parent is a single or both parents are Aspies. I think a big part of the problem with my childhood was I had no NT perspective so I naturally thought something was wrong with the way I thought, and since my mom was socially isolated I didn't really have other families around to compare us to.

I like to think of it like if a parent were deaf and had a hearing child. The parent would need sign language, and the kid would need to learn it too, and the kid would need to have other folks to learn verbal language from. Just like that, I think Aspie parents should be aware of their own perspective as Aspies, the NT kids should be aware of their parent's modality, and they need some NT perspective and back-up too.

I completely get where answersfinally is coming from. He has a very valid point in many cases.

Here is my perspective. I'm a divorced NT male with two children (ages 8 & 14) who is engaged to a AS female. We're both in our late 40's. Before she got her dx & started on meds we had many, many disagreements & fights over how to raise the children and her having to deal with her sensory issues.

Of course, she has the typical rigidity & black and white thinking. The classic lack of empathy or being able to see another perspective or someone elses point of view. The total lack of being able to make adjustments if the situatution warranted it. And the sensory issues. My kids and myself were tip toeing around the house whispering and still she would be freaking out about the noise. Really, it was awful.

It finally came to a head & I told her "No more, that's it, I'm done". Around the same time she was having similar problems at her work and thankfully a co worker who knew about AS said "You should get tested.". She was and bam. Classic case, 100% AS.

She accepted/embraced her dx & started taking anti-anixiety meds. This has made all of the difference in the world. She is able to function. She can work with others. Every little thing does not freak her out. We're back together and committed to making it work. She is like a new woman. When things start to get a little iffy we are now able to sit down and talk about it, understanding that her AS is usually what is causing most of it.

But back to the original post, yeah, IMO he's right. A person who has the classic AS symptoms and will not acknowledge them or take steps to improve the situation would make a poor parent. The very nature of the disorder (the rigidity, black & white thinking and the lack of being able to see another persons point of view or perspective) really puts them behind the 8 ball from the beginning.

Last edited by granatelli on 29 Aug 2009, 11:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

Great post pikkul. I especially like the part about being a deaf parent w/a hearing child. You are so right. That's it in a nutshell. Once you are both on the same page, and the parent acknowledges the disorder and the child understands why the parent does the sometimes wacky things they do then you're on the right path to a healthy, more normal relationship.

The b***h of it though is the very nature of AS makes it hard for some people w/AS to accept or even consider that they may be wrong or that someone else may have a different or equally valid view. Once you can break through that you have a chance.

It is such a relief to have found this board. I have struggled my entire life with my family. No one has been diagnosed but I believe strongly that my dad and my sister have Aspergers. I even suspect my mom has it as she totally lacks the ability to nurture, she is face blind, and she has no sense of direction. I have some aspie qualities however I don't believe I would be diagnosed. You could put me in the NT category. I am a very visual person yet with a very analytic brain. I was emotionally stunted until adulthood but luckily due to a very caring best friend and husband I have learned to build that which was lacking in my heart. I am a very loving mother as a result. I am very talented as an artist and at evaluating aesthetics and my family 100% lacks this skill. So much of what I have read here I relate with. I have never known ANYONE who would describe their family or their house the way I have read in the many threads on this blog. I have truly felt alone my entire life until now.

All my life (I am 37 and the mother of a 7 year old) I have struggled trying to understand how I fit in this group. Dad was scary (the eyes someone previously described... wow.... so true) when he was mad. We did not have a relationship other than him being the disciplinarian and slave driver, until I was married. I assumed I was just not of interest to him. There to do work but not be heard. Only my grades were discussed. My mom was hurtful in her refusal to connect. She suffered depression and put all her diagnosis on me (I have never been a depressed person). She was spiteful at times. I still feel the pain. My sister was off on her own magic planet. At this point she is estranged and barely speaks to us. And, there I was 'normal'. I guess because I was the normal one and my sister was clearly far from it, my parents would pick me apart - I was 'sensitive' and 'self centered'. All my life I have been criticized for the very things they themselves are guilt of and yet they never turn that mirror on themselves. So hypocritical.

My son was diagnosed with ADHD and I have done a lot of research. My dad made an offhanded joke which led me to read about Aspergers. The lightbulb went on! Eureka!! And yet we can't discuss the topic in the family without anger and an argument. How dare I say anything is wrong with Dad! My sister says she has known of people with Aspergers and she 'does not relate' with the disease. I don't know where to turn. How do I make sense of this in my head???

Oh, yes, I feel invisible. Not seen. Only my words or my perceived achievements are evaluated. I am a very good person. But I agree with another who said his/her father could not describe his personality if asked. I scream in the corner for attention. That which exists in the negatives space - the silence - is a void that I cannot fill. It hurts to not be thought of when I am not around. I am more than just a dollar amount on a ledger page. I am a person who needs connection.

The negativity is soul sucking. Everything is seen from a negative point of view and I cannot live around it for more than a short visit without feeling like I got run over by a truck.

I try to point out my issues and failures and vulnerabilities. It is too much to ask for them to not rip them to shreds and criticize me for having the courage and strength to be vulnerable. They take everything I say from an adversarial point of view. I was told to seek therapy. I struggle desperately to get us to treat each other as a team. Why does it have to be an insult for me to share these things? They think I am feeling sorry for myself - crying in my wheaties, being angry when I am sharing my needs. The only way to evaluate the world is to see it from an offense/defense point of view. Can it ever change? I am trying very hard but the brick wall is very very solid....

How come I am the only one who can see this and understand it? I don't like to say there is something 'wrong' with me or my son. But denying it doesn't change the fact? When I stand up and share my deficiencies and yet I survive, why can't they see this and learn from it?? Just because the skill is not inherent does not mean it can't be learned with practice. But how do I get them to accept my point of view.

I just can't wrap my brain around the lack of empathy - the lack of compassion. I have been banging my head against the wall for 37 years. How do I make peace of this? I am not ready to just walk away. I want a compromise. I need family. I only wish my family needed me back!

Where do I get help? Any good suggestions?

PRB

My father was AS. My mother was not AS.

I had entirely more misery from my mother, who was unable to see that I had special needs, than I was with my father, who was blunt to the point of being painful at times. There is a lot more to "being sensitive to your child" than is delineated by a diagnosis of being on the autism spectrum or not.

I am AS. My daughter is AS. I'd like to think I've been a good mother. My daughter says that she believes I was. She is now grown, happy, and productive.

That was some reading...

My dad was diagnosed after my Mom passed away. He had a breakdown of sorts - my Mom was non-AS. My daughter had already been diagnosed at that time and I was told that this ran in families.

My Mom and Dad were really good parents - different in their own ways but together they balanced one another. My Mom was the 'deep' thinker - very perceptive about other people. A class act - organized, smart, loving. My Dad was not huggy/kissy/emotional. He is very intelligent and he can do things... A perfectionist. Loves the outdoors. People are drawn to him but as I got older I saw that he was not really drawn to other people.

Now that I'm a lot older and see things much differently - I am pretty certain that my Dad's Mom was waaaayyyy AS or something. The family alway said she was strongwilled and spoiled. She really didn't raise her children - she dumped them on her parents. She was not a 'gramma' grandmother - she seemed to tolerate us kids because she was supposed to.

I see a lot of AS traits in myself - they were definitely more obvious when I was younger - but age and learning to cope have made it easy for me to function. Though there are a lot of things that I know are not the 'norm'.

I'm not too sure that a parent that is or isn't AS makes a lot of difference. I know people that had parents that were totally dysfunctional and non-AS. Some have turned out to be really decent people and good parents. On the other hand, I know people who had really great parents that have turned out to be total wastes of oxygen.

I do have to chuckle about the noise thing... When my brothers and I were younger my Dad used to get overwhelmed with all the noise and chatter and he'd tell us to open a window to let the words out... (In other words - quiet down - too much much noise and commotion was putting him on edge.) I do the same thing. I noticed that my daughter has picked it up too... When there's too much going on and too much talk or noise - she'll just go open the window and let some of the words out.

beautiful...

My mom has spectrum traits, for sure. I think being raised by her was much harder for my NT sister than for me. They always clashed, while she and I got along really well. We are still very close, and my mom is also the person my Aspie son is closest to, other than his father and me. She's the only other person in the family who really gets him, and conversely, I don't think she feels that her other grandchildren really get her. She told me today that she feels more loved by my son than by her other grandkids.

She was not strict at all, quite the opposite. She had/has a 1960's philosophy of acceptance that was actually probably not always the best thing for me. As she says now, she thought that just letting me be made me happy, which was not in fact the case; I was quite miserable almost all of the time. And I could have used much more structure and routine in my life. It's a perfect policy for a grandmother, though.

For myself as a parent, I think my son does find me strict, though I feel like I give him a ton of slack. That is, I don't think reminding him to brush his teeth, or asking him to take a break from a computer game when he starts to scream is strictness, and he does. Our main issues happen when our sensitivities clash -- he gets too noisy for me and I can't stand it, or I yell at him and he can't stand it.

I have sometimes felt that my issues - getting overwhelmed easily, being anxious, prone to meltdown etc. -- make me a bad parent and I shouldn't have had a child. On the other hand, I think I have empathy with him in ways his father doesn't. I try not to replicate things that bothered me as a child -- always brush his hair very gently, make sure he has toothpaste that doesn't burn his mouth, give him gum to chew instead of yelling at him for chewing his hair or clothes, try to find creative solutions when he has irrational fears. I try to provide structure -- he LOVES written schedules -- but also not to impose it when it's not necessary. For example, his dad gets irritated if he goes around all day in just his underwear, which seems really not worth making a big deal over, to me.

Just to emphasize this concept - for me, I floundered when I didn't know what the rules were as a child. The world was chaos enough, I had to have structure. My parents were overly strict, even for the era, and that did cause me some problems. They also had me in an extremely rigid religous school when I was young - and that was NOT a good thing, as there were no accommodations made for me. I did a sink-or-swim and was slowly becoming more emotionally impaired as time went by. But if it had been a "whatever makes you happy" I'd have been in a lot worse shape.

By the time I was a teen, however, they were almost totally hands off (my mother was not mentally well and my dad wasn't around much) and that was such a complete disaster. We had moved and I was in a public school in a new culture where pretty much all I had to do was show up and be basically polite and I'd get by fine. I was living in the same house as my parents, but the only interactions I had would be "take out the trash" or "where the hell have you been?" once a day. No conversation, not much else. That was not a healthy thing. BUT, earlier on I knew exactly what the rules were and as long as I knew them I had an anchor.

My grandmother provided the unconditional love thing - very few rules, complete acceptance. I think as long as you have a little of both, even if they are not from the same person - as a child you'll do ok. The rules don't have to be completely rigid, and it really does help if you explain to the child why they are there (it worked well with my own kid). But the world is such a confusing place, it helps to have some things to hold onto.

I LOVE my dad. Growing up we would always "geek out" together on certain subjects, especially comics and music. Actually we STILL do, LOL. My dad is undiagnosed but he OBVIOUSLY has AS. He has pretty much every trait: quiet, shuts down when over tired or stressed, intense specific interests (his fav right now is J-Pop, and yes, he is white not Asian LOL), not interested in a social life much, scored something like a 180 on his IQ test in school. They made him retest because they thought it was a fluke. He scored like 3 points higher.

My mom and him are OPPOSITES, yet they complement each other so well and are great friends, so they've been together since they were 15! About 35 years My dad has learned to show my mom the attention she wants, and she has in turn learned to respect his space- a HUGE feat for her. She has boundary issues, which she took out on me and my siblings. She didn't physically abuse use but she has had moments of verbal/mental abuse (name calling for instance. Also, one of her fav things to say to me was, "Well, I LOVE you but I don't like you"). I had serious issues making friends, but when I did she only approved of male ones. She would get weirdly critical and jealous of female friends. That added to my weirdness socially = not many friends (at least not long term) for me. She would get jealous of anything taking my attention really, even schoolwork. She would often accuse me of doing homework to "ignore her". My mom needs a lot of attention and she can be a serious drama queen. My husband is pretty convinced she has a mild case of Borderline Personality Disorder (his mom has a more serious case of that). She has somehow learned to keep this in check with Dad, not so much with me I think it has something to do with the way my dad seems to not care when she gets all riled. She needs that in just the right amount to keep her grounded. When she gets all dramatic I have noticed she reacts better, and calms down faster when people react LESS to it. Unfortunately, I am what my husband calls a "talker" Aspie. I talk when I get nervous or scared. I also am more prone to meltdowns, vs. my dad who is more of the "shutdown" type. My dad doesn't show much of his temper- I on the other hand have a terrible one and have trouble keeping it in check. That paired with my taking things literally (like her crazy "I don't like you" statments) made my relationship with my mom pretty crappy. I just couldn't take the constant invasion of space. We have a better relationship now that I don't live there and I have been Dx.

So, anyway, the point is my experience with my very likely Aspie father was very good (still is ). we bond over our random geekiness