Not with you...

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"I don't want to make that with you, mom"

It happened again...

My son got a book from our neighbors that has many little paper airplanes you can make. I was going to make some with him and then dad got home. He said, "I don't want to make any with you, mom, you are not good." We discussed how that is not nice and how I am perfectly capable of doing one with him. He didn't believe it. Later he said, 'Fine, you can make the ones I don't like. Dad can do the ones I do like." Dad said, "I am not doing one until mom does one." Nate picked out one he doesn't like and said, "Here, I don't like this one." We tried and tried to explain how that wasn't nice to him but I think to him, he was just stating facts or what he perceives as facts. It is so frustrating, though.

At that point, I couldn't bring myself to do even one with him. Sure, I could have proven him wrong but at the same time, I could have really screwed up and reinforced his perspective that mom just isn't smart enough. I would rather not even try. Before he said that, I would have been more than willing to try.

I went in the other room and overheard him say, "Dad can you tell "Ron's" mom (my younger son) to come and get him. He decided not to use "mom" but said "Ron's mom". That was interesting. I never heard him do that before. Right now, he and dad are working on the airplanes.

I know this all sounds pretty childish for me to say as he is only 5 years old, but he often says that I am not smart enough or that I can't do something. Perhaps it will help if I get those "How to" books that some of you told me about. I haven't had time to get them yet. I need to start on the basic "How to" activities. We have some time during summer break.

As his intelligence grows, I have a feeling everything will just intensify.

The "I can do it by myself", "I don't want your help" is a normal stage and a sign of acquiring independence. I can see how you felt hurt and excluded, but I don't know that your husband was that welcome either. He just wanted to do it on his own.

As an adult I used to call my mother by her christian name rather than mum. My father had passed away by then but I probably would have used his given name too.

OK, what I am about to say MIGHT sound sexist, but he might have adoted some sexist views, or may JUST want to bond with his father. That is NORMAL! Let him be. Why do YOU want to interfere with what he likes or change how he views things?

BTW he MAY do the same with his father, and will likely later treat yu in a way that seems more fair.

HECK, I watched a show earlier today called "The hand that rocks the cradle". It is about a woman that married an idiot selfish PERVERT that happened to be a doctor. One victim ended up reporting him, and others followed suit. HE ended up killing himself, and destroyed almosst everything his wife had. She had a problem after that, and had to have a hysterectomy, and her unborn baby died. When she found out about the victim, she decided to steal everything SHE had. She turned almost everyone against that victim. She EVEN turned HER daughter against her. When she felt she had finished her secondary attack, she tried to have the little girl(who she turned against her mother) compllete everything. GUESS WHAT! The girl hid the baby, said "You're NOT my mother", and slammed the door on the impostor.

So don't take offense at what nate said. The little girl, in the above movie, earlier seemed to turn on her REAL mother. Given what she saw, and was told, it was reasonable. In the end, she really set the stage for the family to be saved. And the mother ALSO feigned an asthma attack to have the impostor destroy her options with hubris, and finish saving the family.

Sometimes, things are just not as they seem.

BTW I ALSO call my mother by her christian name! I have since at least the age of 5. I was shocked when she told me a phrase I said at about 14months, and it included the word daddy, but I WAS young, and taught the kind of childs talk. WHY does society do that? Various bodily functions, etc... have two or more accepted words where one is for KIDS.

As for him speaking about his brothers mom, that might have been a subtle attack. Frankly, *I* didn't like people arbitrarily deciding, and trying to force something on me, when my word should be LAW! I mean if HE considers something to be fun, and it is clean and safe, who are YOU to speak against it?

I know some of it is a stage but he really wouldn't get started without my husband. This has been going on for at least a month or two now. He honestly really didn't want to do it alone. If he did, he would tell us both to leave him alone LOL. There would be no mistaking if that were the case.

2ukenkerl:
Good points.
He does the same things to his father when it has to do with social situations. During those times. he practically ignores his father and is around me. That is my husband's area of weakness. Nate seems like he already knows our strengths and weaknesses. Quite frankly, it isn't too hard to figure that out. I am seriously challenged in the visual, spatial reasoning type of activities. I am challenged and he is a genius in those areas. I am not putting myself down as it is just a fact. I really don't say how horrible I am with those activites aroujnd him but I think it's pretty obvious. So, I guess what he says is actually true. Not the "you aren't smart" part. When he says the "You aren't smart" he is probably just talking about those high perceptual, spatial reasoning activities. I think you and/or some others said that in my similar post a few weeks back

When I think about it that way, I really should take no offense. Why do I? I really should change that about myself and not feel so offended.

In your last paragraph, you completely remind me of my husband's father, who I suspect is also undx AS. He has said something similar but it was about body parts. When Nate was three years old, I said some "socially accepted" kid word for a body part. Nate's grandfather really became irritated. He told me that we should just use the actual names instead of "dumbing it down" for children. After he had finished, I just had to tell my Father in law, "Why do you say "poot" instead of flatulence then?" I just couldn't resist. He never did answer my question. So, he isn't completely like you but it reminded me a little of you.

I completely see your point. After that conversation with my FIL, I started to say the correct names of body parts but would also say the word flatulence. The word "poot" irritated me a little more after that.

Learn how to make better paper aeroplanes.

He's being practical but not very diplomatic.

"We only have so many of these so I don't want any of the good ones bodged up."

How about getting a kit and building something on your own in the evening when he's asleep. Then you can keep at it until you are happy with it.
Then you can show him what you have done when you are ready and he can see how cool you are.

Get two so you then show him how you did it. (Should be easier as you have already done it once.)

I'm sure what some of the non parents are missing here is that how your son speeks to you is something that he'll carry with him out your front door. If he tells the big kid down the street he's "not smart" he very well may get it back from the kid. Your on the right track tell him that what he said wasn't very nice. Helping him play pracitce how to say what he wants in a nicer way with play or social stories may be a big help. The basics skills for dealing with peaple are like social armor and are more then worth the time to learn.

Not 'missing' really as Natesmom explained how she dealt with it.

But yes social stories, role playing and trying to get him to understand how other people might feel are important.
Basically that other people are weird you wouldn't believe the kind of things might upset them.

I have two dogs. It's worse than having children because they will never learn to open doors or cook for themselves and they're long lived too!

What we've talked about with our son quite a bit is that some things just shouldn't be said. Remember that these kids take everything very literally, which means that once they buy into the concept of "tell the truth," they tend to overdue it, right down to sharing thoughts that can be hurtful to others. They need to learn tact without getting the impression that they are being asked to lie. A very fine line.

For example, in the case at issue, your son should have simply said, "I would like to wait and build these with Dad." Then the rest of the conversation becomes a non-issue. Dad would have felt flattered; your feelings would not have been hurt; and he would have been telling the literal truth.

I find that arguing with kids about their perception of how good we are at things is worthless. As is us trying to become experts at things they think we're bad at. They have their opinions and preferences and, well, as unique individuals they are entitled to them. More important is that they learn when to keep those perceptions to themselves.

This isn't a lesson they absorb very easily, I've noticed. AS kids, anyway; my NT daughter gets it just fine. But, then, she is also less rigid on the whole concept of lying - not a good thing, really, long term. ANYWAY, extending the lesson into various situations not yet experienced is hard for our kids. And THEN there are all those times that someone will insist on asking "why?" at which point our truthful and literal kids feel obliged to answer. Teaching them to dance the "truth without being hurtful dance" is REALLY hard, given that its a tricky dance for anyone, so I'd just work with him on the "sometimes it is better to keep your thoughts to yourself" concept.

Usually when something similar happens, we have him restate his idea in a different way - a more societal acceptable way. He has generalized that into different settings. When something like this happens my emotions tend to get in the way of a "teaching moment." We do need to do more role playing. I really haven't used those teachable moments in about two months. Perhaps that is why he is struggling lately?

We have tried to get him to understand how others feel but honestly, it does seem like a really abstract concept for him right now. We will do more role playing to help him. I used to do that, even three months ago, but haven't really done that lately. Perhaps that is what's missing.

CRD: He has carried those behaviors "out the front door" and says some things to other children. Kindergarten this year has been difficult for him. You are right

I like the idea of building something on my own, just for extra practice.

This made me laugh a little. My sons are very much like this too. At the age of 9 they are now just starting to "get" some of the concepts of diplomacy, after many years of teaching, role playing etc., as was suggested above. So patience is going to be important, and trying not to take it personally.

My sons know to go to their Dad when they need Lego help, or help with certain video games that he is better at, BUT they come to me for other help in the areas where I excel (such as reading aloud, art projects etc.). There is no hiding from really smart little kids that you suck at certain things, and as a matter of fact I think it is good for them to see that not everybody is good at everything. Maybe you could leave the planes for Nate and his dad, and focus your energy on a fun activity together that you are better at.