Is making your child write sentences X amount of times good?

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That's my parents way of treating my little sisters write 10,20,sometimes 50+ I will not (lie,whine etc.) You get the idea. So fellow parents do you think this is effective parenting? and if not what do you suggest (not that my parents will listen to me they raise the kids however the hell they want too.) (As I learned while learning Psychology and mentioning issues THEY HATED IT!) I might not BE a Psychologist but I KNOW a Psychologist WOULD HAVE A FIELD DAY WITH MY FAMILY (me included Unfourtunently.)

Are the girls on the autism spectrum? Either way, I don't think it's good parenting. Not abusive, but ineffective. I'm more for natural consequences, and teaching a child why and how to make good decisions.

If they are on the spectrum, it might be a little more helpful for them to recite out loud rather than write.

I was made to wright lines as a child in school. I don't think it ever did any good other then to piss me off. I was mostly I will remeber my books or homework < I'm dislexic and being disorgiziest is a big part of that> I will not daydream < I also have elepisy and some of the small seizures look like I'm just spacing out> so ofcourse no amount of lines help "fix" me. I'm not sure how it would work on other kids. I think being made to wright letters explaining why what I did was wroung and what I can do to fix it work better then mindless wrighting over and over I will not lie. I don't think it will hurt your sister I just don't think it will help her grow as a person and stop feeling the need to lie.

No I don't think are on the spectrum but since is the parents board I thought I could get some insight from parents of children in general. I agree writing I will not lie etc. is unhelpful and they'll just misbehave again and it's a cycle LOL! thanks for your input.

In my opinion this is a very poor "consequence" for behavior that needs correcting. As a much better alternative, I would suggest requiring sitting in a chair for 5 minutes immediately when the unacceptable behavior occurs. Sitting in a chair for 5 minutes is not only immediate but really is not that onerous. It does, however, let the child know that the behavior is not acceptable. I am assuming that the children are young.

7 and 9. The sitting in a chair technique sounds interesting. I was listening to a Psychology podcast that mention the power struggle unfourtunenly in are home it leads to threats of being kicked out or being called a rude b***h poor kids but as I've said I tend to keep my views to myself.

Writing lines and sitting in chairs is just an adults way of making them feel like they've been able to deal out punishment. It makes US feel better but doesn't do anything (positive or negative) for the child.

It would be better if the child's punishments involved having them do something that is "real life" - eg: washing the dishes.
It would help them learn life-skills too.

I'm not even a fan of sitting in the chair for 5 minutes. What does that do for anyone?
It might help writing skills but I doubt it.

My children sometimes get 5-30 minute head starts for bedtime. ie: A serious offence could mean bedtime at 7pm for one child (while the other stays up until 7.30). It doesn't work if they both go to bed at the same time. One child has to feel that the other is getting something better in order for the "punishment" to work.

Sometimes, for a minor offense, I'll say ok... "You were naughty, so your brother gets to choose which dessert bowl he wants". Then I'll "accidentally" fill one bowl slightly higher.

Got ideas for bed time and dessert. My mom uses the bedtime thing but very very rarely things for the input. I myself don't see the writing as helping but I HATE the rude b***h comments and power struggle stuff.

gbollard wrote:

I am trying to understand your logic. You are not a fan of sitting in a chair for 5 minutes because it supposedly doesn't do anything for anyone. What is it that you imagine going to bed 5 minutes early does for anyone? or playing one kid off with the other with the dessert bowls? I don't like the idea of using food as a punishment/reward because eating disorders are all too common. Both of the consequences you use rely on playing one kid off of the other, which I would always avoid.

From my experience as a youth sports coach, cub scout leader, parent, and, most importantly, working with emotionally disturbed kids, sitting in a chair or on the sidelines for the 3 or 5 minutes is the most effective, least disruptive consequence available. Pretending that the consequence will serve some greater purpose runs a serious risk of being counterproductive. Making a kid wash the dishes turns this task into a punishment rather than a daily task that is expected to be done. An earlier bed time turns going to bed into a punishment, which should definitely be avoided if you don't want a nightly struggle to get kids to go to bed. But the most important advantage of sitting in a chair is that it is immediate. The problem is over and done with in a matter of minutes and can be forgotten. Oh, and it works better than other consequences, even better than consequences that are much more severe, probably because of its immediacy.

A lot of the things that work well with NT children do not work at all with aspergers children.

In my case, the intent is not to play the children off against eachother but instead to make them equally responsive.

For example; I'll ask for a child to do something, a chore or perhaps something just expected of them like hanging up their own clothes.

If they don't seem to want to do it, I simply say "that's ok. You don't have to do it".

This usually causes them to do it immediately (or, it causes my child's brother to offer). I don't accept the brother's offer immediately because I want the original son to do the work.

As is the case with the real world, where those who actually do the work get paid and those who refuse** to work must live off benefits which are considerably lower. My children receive rewards accordingly. Sometimes they're food, sometimes they're entertainment, sometimes they're more or less tangible.

(**I'm ignoring for a minute those who can't through no fault of their own).

This technique would not work for groups of children (sporting groups for instance) but it works extremely well with siblings.

I don't believe that this leads to eating disorders particularly since it doesn't always involve food. I think you may be assuming that when I make one food option look better than the other that I'm doubling the size. It's not the case. In order for a child to desire one object, for example a drink, over another, you simply need to make the tide about 2mm higher. Sometimes it's just about the "blue" cup vs the pink one.

Often the struggle is about which child gets to ride in the front seat of the car today.

The idea that I'm not a fan of putting a child in a chair for 5 minutes but I'm a fan of sending them to bed 5 minutes earlier does seem contradictory - and this is because I haven't explained myself well. In the case where one child sits in a chair (in a family situation), it's quite common for their siblings to tease them or for them to attempt to interact with their surroundings and others. For aspies particularly, being sat in a chair where they can see everything isn't a punishment. It's effective timeout for adults but it won't prevent the aspie child from repeating a bad performance.

Putting a child in bed 5 minutes earlier doesn't make the bed a punishment. After all, their sibling will be going to bed too.

It's what you do in that 5 minutes that is the real punishment. My kids know that I'll spend time reading a book or playing lego etc.. with them before bed. The potential loss of that time is the greater threat. Again, it's like real life punishments which reduce the amount and quality of leisure time available to us. Obviously I only use an "early bedtime" punishment when it IS bedtime, not four hours before - that wouldn't work.

Wildgrape, I can see how the chair works well in team situations although I'm not really sure that we're even allowed to do that at cubs anymore. I believe it's called singling children out. I've been watching the other cub leaders trying to figure out how they handle situations. So far they seem to ignore them and make me do it.

You raise some good points about doing jobs. So far I haven't yet made my kids do the dishes - they're too young. I'll probably think twice about using a task as a punishment - thanks.

Gavin,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I am responding because I think that the issue of consequences/punishment is important, and I want also to expand on certain thoughts.

You wrote:

You make a very good point, however the original poster stated that the kids were not on the spectrum. To buttress your point, I am autistic, not stereotypically AS, and was a "handful!!" when I was young. Punishment of any kind did not work with me; I got hundreds of detentions at school to prove it. On the other hand, my son is mildly AS and was a very obedient child, and the chair sitting worked like a charm with him.

Without quoting your comments on playing one kid off against the other I will admit that I guessed that this was working well in your little family dynamic with younger kids and a loving father. I am glad that you recognize that it could be a disaster with a sports team, and I expect it could lead to problems with older kids as well. Also, I am sure that the minor way you are using food will not lead to eating disorders, but parents do need to be aware of the danger. I think you will agree that the key is to find some small consequence that works and doesn't end in meltdowns and power struggles, and this seems to be your basic approach.



I wouldn't allow siblings or teammates to tease the one sitting out. They would soon join in on the sitting. Many parents and others have the idea that such a small consequence won't work and are shocked to see a whole group dynamic change permanently after only two or three times (and it rarely needs to used again). In fact, very small consequences often work, as you noted with the color of the cups. In fact, sitting out for a few minutes, even if the child can see what is going on, is the same idea as the color of the cups, or 2mm more drink (if they are having a drink at the time of the misbehavior), or even going to bed 5 minutes early (if they are going to be at the time of the misbehavior). If applied gently, these are all minor consequences that let the kid concretely understand what is expected.

Your suggestion that my motivation for the use of sitting is that it is a timeout for me is irritating, and just dead wrong.



I take it you are a Cub leader. My suggestion is to try it. Warn the offender at least two or three times before the first time, because it will come as a shock if no consequences have ever applied, and just make the kid sit on the sidelines for 3 (or 5) minutes. If you have an unruly pack you will only have to do this 2 or 3 times and behavior will improve dramatically. The result will be that the cubs themselves will have a lot more fun and a much more rewarding experience. I'm not suggesting this to make your job as leader easier.

Cheers

Well, we've been seeing a psychologist (a good one, I was beginning to think there weren't any) about this sort of thing, actually. Not writing lines but about our kids and how to present them with logical consequences. The things you mention are what would be called "arbitrary consequences" or results that have nothing to do with the act. If a kid spills something, logically they should clean it up or help clean it up, possibly not be allowed to have as much freedom with the thing they spilled. If they lie, they lose the right of being believed every time they say they did something until they earn the trust back. If they whine, I heard a good one for this, you say you can't understand anything spoken in a whiney voice and you'll respond when they speak in a normal voice.If they don't do their homework, they can lose privileges that they otherwise would have on completion of their homework. If there aren't any, you choose something to be given only when homework is completed, a reward or reward system. If they need help with the homework, this needs to be ascertained. What's key is that they learn responsibility in the long run, and learn what they need to learn academically. Not that they be "paid back" for their crimes. And overreacting just makes them think that these little things (the whining for example) are worth so much fuss. How that sets them up for healthy adulthood, I hate to think.

Yeah, you sound like you already get it, though. Sadly, a lot of us go by what we think is best because we don't get it, like my husband and I. We're doing a lot better now. I wish your parents were more receptive to suggestion, our psychologist recommended a couple of good books, Parent Effectiveness Training and Children: the Challenge. I haven't even finished them and things are already so much better. For one thing, I don't feel so helpless anymore. Feeling helpless is the first step to child abuse, in my opinion. You look to ever more extreme responses to keep the upper hand. You go the opposite way you should.

Since I prefer to do all of one task before moving onto the next, I would tackle the "Write this sentence 30 times" problem by writing vertically.

"I will not hit others".

Write "I" 30 times downwards, write "w" 30 times downwards, etc, etc.

I'm not sure I learned anything from it.

I did it the same way as a kid it got to the point were I wasn't even see words anymore but my lines were in the 100s.

Wildgrape, thanks for the response.

Oops, I totally missed that point.
Every child is different and I'm sure that sometimes the same techniques work across both NT and AS children but in general they're frustratingly different at times.



Sorry about that, I'm not necessarily accusing you, it's just that I've seen it used that way with other parents.

My wife even said to me at one point "I don't think that timeout is enough of a punishment". She was irritated with my son about something and she wanted the punishment to "hurt". In theory, (according to several books - and supernanny ) timeout is supposed to give the parents and the child a "break" from each other to calm down - it's not so much a punishment as a removal from the situation.

Hopefully the child learns from the timeout but not because of the consequences since sitting in a chair has minimal punishment consequences especially for an aspie. I think that it's hoped that the free-time in timeout will cause the child to reflect on their own behaviour - and learn from their mistakes.

Since I'm rather deaf, my kids take advantage of timeout situations to stir eachother up (whispering teases at eachother). I'm never quite sure when they're teasing and since I can't timeout without proof (one of my aspie rules), it reduces the effectiveness of timeout for me in family situations.




My techniques work well in a family setting but I'm really quite lost in team/scout situations. (Yes, I am a cubs leader).

I've only ever timed out one child at cubs, and that was my own son during a meltdown - and I felt really bad about doing it but didn't feel like I had any other option.

That said, I'll consider it if things get bad enough to warrant it. I'm slowly improving but it's frustrating. Several of the other leaders are teachers and they don't seem to do anything but the kids behave for them. It's like they have an aura or something.

I'm trying to study their nuances, there must be something in tone or body language that I'm missing.

anyway, thanks very much for the tips... I'll give them a go.

could be torture to a kid with poor handwriting and struggles to write. It's not tied in to the problem. I invision frustration and just waiting to get done without focusing on the problem.