Computer Addiction

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Hello, I'm new here today. I have a daughter, about to turn 10 who is quite a challenge these days to put it mildly!

We have a PC for the kids which they use to play games, email, and do a little research. My daughter with AS seems to have an almost drug-like addiction and it's a non-stop ordeal to pry her off of it. I try to time her, make up rules like no PC until she exercises, but it's a daily struggle. I'm about ready to just disable it, especially during the school week.

Tagged on to this problem is she has no desire to play outside (we even have a pool) and refusal to eat ANY vegtable.

Bascially, I have a PC addict, chair-potato, carb junkie. Help.

O huzzah, my favorite topic.

Before I get into the full speech, perhaps you should give more information.

What is it about your daughters enjoyment of the computer that you dislike? Please be specific. I know that there is a trend today to view playing video games as a bad thing, and I have heard plenty of crap like, 'it rots your brain'. I have no idea where this false notion comes from, but it is possible that you believe this, and all you require is clarification. In any case. Please be specific as to why you view this as a problem. What worries you about your daughter playing on the computer?

O, I also forgot to say: welcome to wrong planet

Around that age I had a huge computer addiction. Anytime I talked I would type in the air without realizing it. And I couldn't get off of it. It was special interest / obsession of mine so I got very mad when someone interrupted me. If someone took it away I threw fits.

I'm older now and it isn't as bad. For instance I can leave my computer and not feel the need to... carry it around with me. And I can put my mind on other things.

Hmm, well I can't really help you with anything else but with the vegetable problem.

Try grinding up the veges and sprinkling them over the food. She won't even realise she's eating them!

I got a suggestion. You said she won't eat vegetables. Here's what you can do. Tell her to find a vegetable recipe on the internet that suits her taste, and ask her to cook it herself. (If she can't do that, cook it for her, but insist on her helping you.) Agree beforehand on what constitutes a vegetable (for instance, whether corn, potatoes, and/or beans count). Make a requirement that the recipe must include at least 2 vegetables and that they must be at least 50% of the total amount of ingredients going in. (In other words, pasta with meat sauce and one tomato slice doesn't count.) Agree on any limits, such as cost, calories, difficulty level, etc. As far as everything else, have her use her best judgment. Once she finds the recipe, she has to turn off the computer, and start working. Work includes going out and buying the ingredients, preparation, cooking in the kitchen, and getting the dish ready for serving.

In the end, she'll be able to use a computer as a helpful tool, rather than an end in itself. And most importantly, she'll get at least a few hours away from the computer doing something physical. Speaking of which, if she goes to the gym, perhaps it has cardio classes for teens (like Tae Bo or something) that your daughter might enjoy, since she doesn't seem happy with the more conventional exercise methods.

Wow, I'm so happy to get many replies on the same day

To clarify on the PC usage, what bothers me is that she'll play games on it (strategy/role games like Wizard 101) all day long. She has dark circles under her eyes. The longer she plays it, the more cranky she becomes when she does get off to eat and sleep. I think exercise and some fresh air is needed but it's a BATTLE.

On the rare days that I'm willing to put my foot down (have to endure hours of complaining, even "I'm going to kill myself" drama), she eventually plays with her sister, cats, even swims. But, the lure is too strong to last long. Worse yet, it's EASY to let her play all day so I'm guilty of not putting in the effort to keep her off and get her outdoors.

For the veggies - from what I hear her say and her reaction to any veggie (other than corn and potatoes if you count those) is that it's about the same as asking anyone else to eat a plate of bugs. I don't think i can get her to cook with them as it would really make her ill. Someone bought me Deceptively Delicious and I have pureed some yams, califlower, and zuchini. So far, have been able to slip some into speghetti sauce (which CANT have bumps BTW) and morning smoothies. The one thing I can give myself credit for is that I have persuaded her to drink a morning blueberry, banana, vanilla soy smoothie. Berries and bananas would never be eaten on their own.

Whew - thanks so much, what valuable input!!

I would suggest setting limits on time before hand and reminding her near the end of that time so she has time to transition. It helped my son with the video games.

I think we may have to try that again - sad to say we just gave up because we had so much trouble enforcing it. She says "just a minute" never intending to get off. Then when 10 minutes are up, we say "NOW" and she goes into a huge panic that she's not done, etc... I guess she really has us conditioned!

I wonder if I can set Vista to just shut off automatically!

We finally had to pull her off tonight. I told her I was thinking of unplugging the PC for an indefinte period of time and we got "I'm going to die, kill myself, my mother is a witch, my only friends are online (true!), I can't walk, I don't want to be alone..."

I have to admit, I lost my temper and yelled. A lot.

This day has been a challenge

I think that's where reminding them ahead of time helps so they can mentally prepare. Almost anything that makes you feel good can become an addiction to my understanding. Even an action rather than a substance can become an addiction if it produces that dopamine pleasure rush. I'll always remember the guy I heard at an AA meeting who said his drug of choice was "more".

Yeah she does, she's in control - she's the "Alpha male" so to speak.

Drastic Idea -
set wind up oven timer on desk by monitor - she has till it goes off to be done and the computer shut down.
If she's not done then just reach down and yank the plug out of the wall.



When the theatrics start ask her if you should pack your bags to go on this guilt trip with her.

Ahh, it sounds like what you are lacking is an agreement upon proper priorities. You see, the core of the problem is that you and your daughter have different priorities. She is concerned primarily about the here and now, and getting to play games. You are concerned about things like her getting enough sleep, so she can have a productive day tomorrow. And as long as you have conflicting priorities, this problem will continue to happen. She will want 1 thing, you will want another, and thus you will continue to be in this situation where you have to force her to do something, she will get upset, and you know the rest.

The solution is simple: You must work with your daughter on how to effectively live her life rather then working at your daughter in an attempt to control her. It is a basic principle, and any parent who has tried it can attest to it's effectiveness. Perhaps a metaphor is in order here. Imagine this scenario:

Option 1.
You meet an old friend at the store one day and get to talking. You talk about your pool, and invite this friend over for a swim. He says sure, and the next day he comes over. He changes into his bathing suit, and dives into the water. He then holds his breath, swims around under water, and generally enjoys himself.

Option 2.
You meet an old friend at the store one day and get to talking. You then walk out to your car still talking with this friend. Then when you get to your car, you pull out a gun and tell the guy to shut up and get in the trunk. You then duct tape his mouth shut and tie him up. When you get back home, you get him out of your trunk, drag him to your pool, and dunk him under for about 30 seconds before pulling him up.

Now, comparing these 2 scenarios you can see that in both instances, your friend came over to your house, got in your pool, and was under water for a short period of time. But imagine which scenario would work out better in the long term. Option 1, you and your friend enjoy yourself. Option 2, you get sued and sent to jail for kidnapping, and aggravated assault. The difference is that even though the same result occurred, you had your friend do it willingly in option 1, where as you had to force it in option 2.

Likewise, trying to get your daughter to do things repeatedly by force, isnt going to work out well, especially as she grows into her teenage years and becomes more independent. Unfortunately, most adults seem to forget their own teenage years, and treat their teenage children like they are 3, by ordering them around without asking for input, or discussing anything. This leads to the child becoming angry at the parent, and thus the typical teenage rebellion. This is not always completely the fault of the parent, but in most cases, the majority of the problem is caused by trying to control your child and force your decisions on them rather then working with the cooperatively.

So, that is a nice idea and all, but how specifically is it going to help your situation. Well, for starters, you need to sit down with your daughter and have a talk. This isnt something to discuss while your trying to get your daughter to go to bed, it is something to discuss ahead of time. Perhaps tomorrow, after your dinner or something. Start off by telling her that the current situation isnt working well for either of you. Your not happy about having to order her around, and she doesnt like being ordered around. Tell her that you are willing to help work out a better solution that will be beneficial for both of you. Tell her that you would like to work cooperatively on how to come to an agreement rather then you just ordering her around. After that, sit down and make a list of things that you feel need to be done. For example: school, sleep, dinner, proper hygiene. Then, go down this list, and explain why you feel these things are so important.

For example, school is important because it is an investment in the future, it can be boring now, but the things you learn will enable you to have a job, which is needed to move out, buy stuff you want, and have a more enjoyable life later. Likewise, sleep is important because it allows you to function well, and so forth. Once you have stated what you think is important and why, ask her if she has anything she would like to add. Does she disagree on something? Does she think one of these things isnt important, and if so why? Also, would she like to add anything to the list that she feels is important? Basically what you need to do is sit down, and come to an agreement about what is and is not a high priority.

Keep in mind that this requires you to listen to your daughter, and consider what she says, and possibly realize that some of the things you consider to be high priorities arent that important. For example, you mention that you want her to go outside and play. Why do you consider this to be important? I understand there is a cultural bias at play which portrays playing sports outdoors to be a good thing, but an objective review shows this to be relatively unimportant. I know that I very rarely played outside as a child. I went outdoors for recess about 30 minutes a day, and that was more exposure to the elements then I wanted. Yet surprisingly I still managed to survive to adulthood with my health intact. Also, eating a banana is not a requirement. Sure, getting a daily supply of vitamins and minerals is useful for proper functioning, but then again taking a daily multivitamin, or eating a bowel of total cereal works just as well.

I am not saying that your ways of doing things are wrong in principle, but they may not be right for her. Think things through logically and see if your requests really have any basis in practical reasoning, or if you just want them done because it is the culturally accepted thing that children should do.

Once you have established what is a high priority, and that is agreed upon by both you and your daughter willingly, work together on ways to accomplish these goals. For example, school starts at 8 am, and both you and her agree that she averages 1 hour to get ready for school, and needs 8 hours of sleep to work well. So, she should be asleep by no later then 11 pm. This requires her to start shutting down, and preparing for bed at 10:30, so that she can get the important tasks done. I am not saying you need to work out a schedule for the rest of her life, but make a plan with her about how things need to happen in order for the priorities to be taken care of. Keep in mind that this should be something she agrees to willingly, not something you force her to agree upon, because that isnt solving the problem at all.

Then, implement the plan. The next day, about 30 mins before she needs to shut down, just go in and give her a heads up like, "30 minutes until you need to get ready for bed." If she protests, just remind her that it is what she agreed to. It may take more effort to work things out with her as opposed to making all the decisions yourself, but keep in mind that your child will need to make their own decisions eventually. And now is a good time to start getting her thinking about how to make her own decision, priorities, and plans.

I plan to post more later, but it tis bed time for me, so Ill get to the large benefits and advantages of computer gaming, and vegetable eating later.

Computer usage in and of itself isn't always bad for AS kids. For many, physical activities are a challange and the computer is a world where they are on equal or superior footing. But. Many games can be overwhelmingly addicting and require ever increasing levels of committment, and when someone starts engaging with a tool for longer than they, themselves, actually wish to, its a problem.

Ask her what some of her favorite days have been; what has she done on days she goes to bed with a really happy and satisfied feeling? Given how you say being on the computer so long makes her cranky, I doubt those are her favorite days. Get her talking about that, about how and why she goes on the computer, and how she feels about the time she spends there. A great time to do this would be when you are out on a different activity that she enjoys, so she can really see and reflect on it herself.

Once you've gotten an understanding about what she does and does not like about her computer usage, you can help her set parameters designed to maximize enjoyment and minimize addiction. It would be the natural next step, and theoretically she'll be on the same page as you as for the goals. If she has had a hand in determining the limits and how they might be enforced, she will be more likely to help you make them work.

A vague, "you need time outside," isn't likely to cut it with an AS child. Everything about their needs is different from "normal," and they know that. The child needs to see how a goal fits into their own unique life.

My son absolutely loves hiking and biking. He learned to ride late, but at this point it is an activity he can do without feeling the physical limitations he has. And hiking takes him away from modern life and people; he gets so centered when he's out in the wilderness. He had to discover his joy in these activities for himself, however. Most other outdoor activities were and are filled with frustrations (he likes water and has learned to swim, but proper stroke technique feels odd to him, so he insists on swimming in his overly energy using way).

He also enjoys creating games on the computer using game maker, and in doing so is developing some potentially marketable skills. And he is into the old fashioned Dungeons and Dragons. He has a friend that is, as well, and like the friend's mom says, "it is so nice to see them playing with their imagination and no tools." If your daughter could find friends to play the "live" forerunners of her computer games with, that might be good, as well.

ANYWAY. Good luck helping your daughter find the balance that will best suit her unique needs.

Wow, great ideas. Tracker, you are a wealth of information from her point of view. I like the other ideas relating to "buy in" as well. DW, what is this gaming software? Might be a good way for me to bridge a gap with her. One of my dreams is to start a "club" to entice kids with similar interests to join. I'm dreaming of getting her out of the house a few nights a month to interact with other kids. Even if it's a cultural bias, I do think some in-person skills would do her a wealth of good. I will discuss this with her and see if she likes the idea.

I'm going to sit down with her tonight and have a calm discussion about my priorities and hers. I will try my best to be open-minded and willing to compromise with her.

This is SUCH an interesting discussion for me. I am probably more similar to my daughter than it seems. I too perfer to be inside, am not a "people person", spend a lot of time on the PC, etc.. I guess I am projecting my own shortcomings on my daughter; I want her to have some balance so as she grows up, she has choices. I feel like my own options are limited and want her to have more choices. Also, when I was young and someone DID push me a bit, I found that I did like what I had originally feared. My sister-in-law didn't indulge me like my mom and actually opened my eyes and expanded my experiences. But, yes, I did resent her for some of her pushing - guess it cuts both ways!

I'm sure she would live if I let her eat what she liked and gave her a gummy vitamin, sat on the PC all day with no in-person friends, and barely saw the light of day. I'm really not trying to make her "like everyone else" but hopefully doing my job as a parent to help bring balance to her life and aquire skills I think she might need in the future.

This whole vegetable thing is not really isolated to eating her veggies. She is SUPER picky and has a very short list of foods she will eat. This has caused problems with going out to eat, going to relatives, day care, basically anywhere but home. I know I have to get over and ignore all the "how can you let her get away with this??" questions from others. As well as "in my house we cook one meal and that's it!" statements. She has even told me she really wishes food didn't gross her out - she wishes she could just eat what other kids do. If I slip the veggies in her meals or she eats something without realizing what it is, she's fine. As soon as she notices she just ate a few carrots specks in her chicken noodle soup, she's ready to vomit.

In general, between the PC and eating, I am looking for guidance on "how to parent" a kid like this. My parents, who watch her at least once a week, and myself are torn between "let her be" and "buckle down" parenting. We often discuss her issues and scratch our heads regarindg "what direction should we go?" Are we "letting her get away with it" or "should we indulge her special needs"?

I am grateful for the advice here and agree that what we are doing is not working. Forcing is probably the worst possible parenting technique - if you can call it that. It's more out of frustration and fatigue.

I will try the priority planning and let you know how it goes.

Thank you again so much and I'd love to read as much as you want to write!!

O great, now you've done it. I was going to keep this brief, but now I cant do that.

Anyways, now on to part 2.

I really dont know the entire situation because you haven't talked a lot about your daughter, but from what I can surmise, she seems to be under a great deal of stress and anxiety. As evidenced by her saying things like, "I am going to kill myself, I have no friends, I dont want to be alone, etc." I dont know how to explain this without seeming like an attention seeking martyr, but you have to understand that being autistic is not easy. The sun always too bright, sounds are too loud, food that you want to eat makes you vomit, the world is very confusing, and you have to constantly deal with information overload. Furthermore you are the weird kid in class and as such the other children (and sometimes the teachers) treat you like crap. Nobody wants to play with you or be your friend, you get picked on, excluded, and insulted by your peers, and despite trying your best, you cant fix any of it.

On top of that, the autistic brain is wired in such a way as to make things worse. The part of the brain called the amygdala, which handles anxiety and stress is over developed and highly connected in people with autism. Combined with a very good memory which causes stress triggers to be hard to forget, and you can see the problem. If you have the time I suggest reading these articles:

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v33/n ... 1453a.html

http://frontiersin.org/neuroscience/pap ... 2007/html/

They are fairly technical, and may not be the best source of information if you arent familiar with basic neurology, but they are pretty good at explaining why you child is having some of the problems that she is. It may be a good Idea to skip over the part about the science and statistics, and go strait to the analysis.

Anyways, with that being said, I feel pretty confident in saying that something is stressing your daughter out. And as such, she is doing something which she finds relaxing and enjoyable, I.E. playing on computer games. I think it is time for another analogy:

Imagine if you had to go swimming in your pool and tread water. I don’t know if it is deep enough that you need to swim in order to stay afloat, but lets pretend that it is. Your husband is in the pool beside you sitting on an inflatable chair enjoying the sunny day. Now at first you might not feel that this is much of a problem, you enjoy swimming and you have fun. But, after a while your arms would get tired, and you would want to get out of the pool. But lets say that you cant, your husband is forcing you to stay in the pool and tread water against your wishes, whenever you try to get out, he just pulls you back in. And of course, since he is stronger, and threatens you if you try to get out, you have no choice but to keep treading water. As the time wears on, your arms and legs would get more and more and more tired. You would struggle more and more with staying afloat, and start having problems keeping your head above water. You would quickly grow to resent being forced to swim.

After many hours of struggling to stay afloat, you eventually get lifted out of the water and set down on a lawn chair so you can rest. Finally you can stop struggling against the water and take a break. And then, a few hours later, your husband decides that you are being lazy and need to get back to swimming. Do you think that you are going to say, “O yeah, sure lets go swimming again”. My best guess is that you are going to complain, and do everything you can to delay getting back in the pool. You are exhausted, and despite having just had a short rest, you aren’t ready to take on the task of swimming again. Now your husband can say things like “that’s just the way things work, tough it out. I don’t have any problems with being in the pool, and I was in there as long as you were”. What your husband is failing to consider is that he had an inflatable raft to sit on, and you didn’t.

Your daughter is probably in the same situation. She is exhausted by having to deal with the world all day long. She is surrounded by noisy people, in a chaotic environment, and she probably isn’t the most popular girl in her class. She dreads going to school every day, and then finally when she gets home she has her chance to relax. She can get on the computer, and meet her friends online. When she plays games online things are great. There is an order to the game, a consistency of what to expect and how things will work. There is no uncertainty or confusion about how to play the game. She has the freedom to do whatever she wants. Nobody is bossing her around telling her what to do. She has friends on the game that she can spend time with and enjoy human companionship. She has what is basically a respite from reality. And then you decide that she has had enough time playing her game, and that she needs to go outside and play, or do something else. And you tell her things like “playing video games all day is bad for you. I never played video games online when I was your age, and I didn’t have any problems”. And of course what you fail to realize is that your daughter is lacking the metaphorical inflatable chair to help keep her afloat. To you, the world isn’t so bad, but from her perspective, things are different.

I can tell you that I spent a lot of time playing video games when I was younger, and still today. And I do mean a lot. I would easily spend 5-6 hours per day playing games online and more than that on weekends. I have to tell you, it is probably what kept me from having a mental breakdown. Far too often, many parents fail to realize just how stressful the world is for an autistic person, and how much down time is needed in order to prepare for the next day. When you take away or limit somebody’s primary method of relaxation and coping with the daily stress, you are definitely just going to make things worse. DW_a_mom says that her son finds great relaxation in hiking outdoors, and that seems fine with me. If that is what he enjoys then I am all for that. But I know that for myself, I get the most relaxation by just sitting down in a nice calm setting, and playing some games with my friends. Sometimes that means I play Dungeons+ dragons on the table top at my friends house. Sometimes that means I meet my online friends and play games with them. My guess is that your daughter is probably the same way. She is just trying to cope with the problems of this world, and this is the best way she has found to do it. Trying to get her to play less on the computer would be like depriving somebody of sleep because you think they sleep too much and are lazy.

I’ve run out of time again and as such I will post this and follow up in part 3 later.

The software my son has been learning to use is called Game Maker. Apparently there is a "light" version you can download for free; we've got that right now and will probably buy the full version as a gift when a gift giving holiday comes. He is programming within the parameters of the software, but there is a lot of thinking that goes into it, and it seems like step A. My son got introduced to the software in an afterschool GATE class last year, and he took an iCamp class this summer that also used it.

Side note on the food: it sounds like a sensory issue, in which case you really can't force it. It sounds like you and her are both doing great, looking for compromises and making them work. Eventually, she may take more steps on her own to overcome some of the issues. My son has done that with many of his sensory issues; when he gets frustrated enough by the existence of them, he'll choose to take them head on. And when the child has made that choice, the odds of success go way up. You can kind of tell when your AS child is taking advantage of their disability, and when they aren't. Well, I can with my son ... most of the time. While my son is a solid actor on stage, in real life, there are little things that give it away. I go firm when I truly believe he can handle it. I go soft when I believe he cannot. He's doing great, overall; I'm really not worried that I've been too soft and, well, I am kind of a softie mom. Just trust your instincts. No one knows her like you do.

Great insight Tracker, I will do some reading (I have one book, but a few on hold at the library) plus your articles. I took your advice and talked to her about my goals and priorities and hers as well. She was amazingly cooperative.

We agreed to exercise each day which helps her sleep at night (something she really wants, she hates when she can't sleep). She can choose her own exercise. We also agreed to a fruit smoothie each weekday morning (which she likes but get's a little tired of) with a break for the weekend. I agreed to stop pushing veggies or trying veggies unless she wants to. I also agreed to let her play on the computer when my needs for her (exercise, smoothie, homework) are met. This will probably turn out to be longer than I had planned but I'll concede to let sit there for hours if she meets her agreement obligations. Her dad and I also talked about the best way to get off. She said if I tell her 15 minutes ahead of time, she will wrap up her game. Since one of her priorities is reading, we decided that 1/2 hour before bedtime would be a super time to read, since it's relaxing for her. All in all a great agreement we are both happy with!

She will be in GATE this year too, DW! I will ask her if she wants to download the game software, might be fun. I do have a feeling sometimes, I'm being taken for a ride to get what she wants. Learning why she wants what she wants has helped very much.

Thanks and keep writing, it's giving me great insight and helping me work with her instead of against her!