Home school

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Does anyone have an opinion or experience with benefits or downside of public/private school vs home schooling. My son has Aspergers, diagnosed recently, and is being bullied at school. Thinking of home schooling next year. Psychologist thinks that's bad idea.

Well, I see it two ways.

1) If you and he have the discipline, he'd probably get a much better actual education in the subject material than in a formal school.

2) If you pull him out, he will not learn how to deal with the other students and learn a way to "fit in" - and, in a way, that's way more important than the subject matter for most students. It's the lessons that will be used by him over and over throughout his life, long after he's forgotten the difference between a participle and a prion, that he'll miss by being isolated.

I think before I yanked a child from school simply for bullying issues, I'd be working for an extended period of time with him/her on how to cope with bullies - they exist in the world and it won't be the last they'll see of them. Running away from them is not a good idea unless it's a truly horrific scenario and nothing at all can be done to help him learn to survive it.

Sorry I can't help you more, it's a hard choice when it's your own child.

I agree with Nan -- in that homeschooling would be beneficial, in that not only would the education possibly be better than public school, but also there wouldn't be the wasted time that there is in public school -- due to things like assemblies, and other BIG GROUP SETTING activities. There is a lot of wasted time when you go to regular school. People I know who homeschool often finish the required work before lunch.

But there is the disadvantage of losing opportunities for social skills development. I worry for your son and the bullying, and if it's super bad (physical harm, or repeated mental harm), then homeschooling is the only option (or a smaller charter school -- something like that). When your son is going through the bullying, it is very tempting to homeschool just to stop the agony. I think anyone would feel that way.

Look at it this way -- if your son has some friends, and some bullying, maybe you can improve the balance by talking to school administrators and seeing what their bullying program is like. My son had a very slight bullying problem in the beginning of sixth grade, but the teachers picked up on it RIGHT AWAY, and took care of it. They cut off the bully as he was walking over to my son's lunch table a couple of times, and then a teacher pulled the bully in to her room and had a talk with him. He's been great ever since. Not every school is that good -- and if yours is not, homeschooling may be the only option. And it's a good option.

I think that you should do, what you think is right. You know your son, best and you should do, what you think is right, for him.

Psychologists will almost always say they don't agree with homeschooling for aspies, but that's because they generally take the view that aspies should be immersed in stressful social situations on a daily basis so they learn to cope. I personally, and many others, don't subscribe to that belief. I think Aspies' differences need to be respected, and managed, while their strengths are fostered. For some, that means public/private school (much depends on the school/teachers) and for others, that means homeschool. A lot of people think homeschooled kids get no socialization but that myth is outdated. My son has playdates several times a week, a socialization class, swimming and karate lessons, field trips, and a kids group at church twice a week. All of these interactions are within his own coping skills, while still stretching and growing those skills. I homeschool him because he had a horrid teacher who was destroying his self-esteem.

If you decide to homeschool, you just need to have socialization opportunities scheduled for him throughout the week. There are lots of great homeschooling resources, if you decide to do it, I'd be happy to share mine. ,

Caitlin - There's a lot more to "socialization" than play dates and activities. Those are important, of course, but they are not my primary concern as a response to the OP. As an Aspie, and the parent of an Aspie, they didn't matter all that much to either of us either at the time my child was in school or now. My daughter is grown and now in the workforce and is doing fine. Neither of us are highly social and we did learn the appropriate social responses/boundaries/etc. over the years, though they remain artificial to some degree to both of us. She is much more adept at that sort of thing than am I, but she is (apparently) less severely influenced by AS than am I. (Then again, I had a clue as to what was going on with her and was able to work with her Aspie to Aspie as to how to get along in the world.) She has several good friends and is generally well-thought of (I think). While my close acquaintainces have thinned out over the years (I find the upkeep to take more effort than the interactions are worth), I do have people I know I could turn to in an emergency. But that digresses.

What I would worry more about someone pulled out of school to be home-schooled is more of a lack of the opportunity to be learning to work "within the machine" than it is the chance to be around other kids in an artificially structured environment. A lot of home-schooling parents don't appear to understand that this scenario (for want of a better term) does exist. (Oddly, it seems to be from what I see and read that NT parents are completely oblivious to it, perhaps because it's second nature to them?) And it's really a vitally necessary skill. It's more of how to get along and establish "place" in a culture or organization, how to learn to "work" it to one's benefit or, at the very least, to avoid collateral damage. Or perhaps I just see it from years of having carefully studied my peers - there are some perks to being Aspie, after all - and their behaviors. Or my experiences could have been a fluke, but I did see them at work in my daughter's growing years, so I suspect the concept is solid enough to call "real."

I'm so glad you were able to pull your child out from a destructive teacher. My daughter had one of those in the 3rd grade and it did a lot of damage, although it also gave her an opportunity to do some tremendous growth. She survived it, understood from an early age that the teacher was not appropriate and why, and learned how to deal with both her and an unsupportive school system. It was not pleasant, but she's gotten a ton of poise, intellectual, and emotional depth from the experience. While she's not "bullet proof" she has a much better feel for what she can and cannot handle, and is capable of defending herself when she's being screwed over - certainly and entirely more competently than I could when I was her age. And she understands that she has every right to do so. You really don't learn those sorts of things if you've never experienced the negatives....

In the end, its a judgment call all around. And it's always hard, because a parent wants to do what is best for their child. The catch is, what is REALLY best, and what is just the least painful at the time, and is there a difference? It could well be that home-schooling for a time or for the career is the way to go. But I'd want to evaluate it very, very carefully and pull as much emotion out of the process before making a decision as was possible.

Hope yours is doing well. - Nan

I can say that I have seen ALL options succeed with the families that come to this board, and that the final decision is HIGHLY individual, just as CockneyRebel said. I think it is more constructive to look at the factors indicating what may make a choice successful for your unique family, than comparing the options on an overall basis.

You will find that AS themselves can have strong and opposing opinions on the subject, and it tends to come down to unique differences in the individual. Some kids need to be pushed into situations they fear or they never try anything. For other kids, those situations are so negative that you will succeed in the opposite result, and they will run away from those situations in the future.

The founder of this website was homeschooled for high school and seems to have done just fine going onto college and tackling public speaking.

So when would I homeschool?

First, if none of the school choices appeared to meet my child's needs in regards to:
a) safety (they should be willing to do something to help mitigate the bullying, and not brush it off)
b) education (is my child learning reasonably near the level I - and he - believe he is capable of?)
c) sensory issues (some AS kids cannot bear the noise, clatter, and other sensory stimulation of any school)
d) finances (is the best option is private, does it make more sense to pay for the schooling, or leave my part time job?)
e) that intangible factor of being comfortable enough there to get through a day without melting down.

As for social skills, and whether or not pushing it a little by keeping the child in school will be good or bad, seems to me to depend at least in part on how well your child can handle the swiftly changing social rules as children grow and change, and that will depend on exactly where the child is on the spectrum with respect to that one skill.

Not learning to get along with other kids does not translate, in my opinion, to not getting along with co-workers at some future date. The way kids are as middle schoolers and teens is NOT the way adults and near-adults are as college students and co-workers. Social skills at this age are an ever-changing set of rules, and it confuses our kids. As soon as they figure out one set, the other kids have grown up a little and acquired a new set; it drives my son batty, but at least he is observant enough to know it is a problem for him. My son does much better with adults than with other children his age for the simple reason that adult social rules tend to stay put. Not to say that kids don't need to learn to get along with peers, but school is not the only way to do that, and it certainly is not the only way to learn the rules a person will need to live by as an adult. We all know how much changes by the time we attend our first high school reunion, don't we? And the flip side is that a child having a horrible time in his school years can and will carry scars into adulthood. Is learning to follow the change a good thing? Sure. But bending, swaying, and keeping up with the change is really stressful for our kids, so you are balancing that benefit against skipping the whole thing and allowing your child to grow really comfortably into his own skin while learning the more timeless social rules of adulthood.

Which means ... it depends on your child and the situation in your family.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 08 Apr 2010, 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The machinery of the workplace is different than that of a school. While learning to work a system is important, it is another area where what the skill involves is going to change over time, depending on where the child is. Learning to work the system in place A isn't always going to help with the system in place B. So ... I'm not so sure how much importance I would place on this in making a school choice. It certainly is a factor weighing in favor of school, but it still isn't THE factor, which I am sure you would agree.

Thanks Nan. I respect your perspective, however I also think it's important to recognize that not all parents are looking - nor should all parents be expected - to teach their kids how to fit into the 'machine'. To me, that is not socialization, that's conformity. There are benefits to conformity for the masses, but if all individuals throughout history had sought merely to learn how to be a cog in the wheel of the 'machine', our society would not be nearly as advanced as it is.

Although I understand the need for a machine on a societal level, our goal as parents has never been to teach our kids that it's necessary to fit neatly into it. It wasn't out goal before our son was diagnosed, nor after. It's just not part of our philosophy. I believe in both the need for an establishment, and the need for those who challenge it. We tend to fall into the second group.

Thank you all for the input.

Absolutely. But I'm not talking about "the workplace" vs "school". It's a much, much broader concept. I'm sorry I can't be more clear than this. It's learning how to spot the unwritten rules and how to best manipulate them, not how to simply follow them. It's not the petty "social" stuff, it's how to spot and ferret out paths through any greater society. And, from what I can tell, one develops that by navigating the insanely changing "rules" as best one can. Like riding a bike, the more you do it, the more native it becomes to some extent. (Then again, you should see me on a bicycle - I'm a public danger!) Again, not sure that translates to/for someone who has the native ability. But for those who do not, it is definitely something that has to be learned. And, as far as I know, the only way to learn it if you aren't born with it is to do it.

Last edited by Nan on 09 Apr 2010, 12:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

No, of course not. But the OP asked for advice, so this is mine: I would think it best to give them the option to be able to choose their paths later on. Provide them with the entire toolbox, not just the ones one prefers based on one's own emotional needs. It's not so much "teach them to be a cog" but "give them the skills to function and to use the machine for their best benefit." Not the same thing at all.

It's also entirely more agreeable to my mind to give any child the skill set to be able to chose where they want to go later on. If they want later to do nothing more than fit in, they will be able to do so. If they wish to be a standout who "advances" society, they will be able to do so. You can certainly stand out if you already know how to fit in, but you can't necessarily fit if you know how only to "stand out". Give them every possible skill and technique available (appropriate to their abilities). Then you haven't chosen their life for them.

Again, it's all a judgment call. All we can do here is offer perspectives and advice to the OP. I'm happy to have survived that part of my parenting career, and to not be facing the decisions again.

Best - N

i have similar experiences as nan from my own schooling. i was able to observe different types of people and learn their motivation and functioning patterns. in school we were all forced to be in a same room, otherwise i would probably never ever get to have the time and opportunity. it was invaluable for me and interestingly it doesn't work for americans. i am utterly confused by people here and now i am doing the same categorization and analysis to make me understand people here (sorry ). but it takes time that as an adult i don't have.
in addition different people have different teaching styles thus different teachers may give different things to a child.

AnotherOne - Where are you from? That's interesting.

I am in my 50s. I recently (last year) was able to take a few trips to the UK and spend some time there. I would have thought that with a generically shared culture it would be a good place to experience as my first "foreign" country. There were so many unwritten rules that are different from those here in California! I had to caution my daughter and keep on my toes myself to watch others carefully for clues. Standing to the right on a moving walkway. Queing up. The way one makes or does not make eye contact, passing in the street. The degree to which one smiles, and at various people. The distance one stands away while speaking. The difference in speech volume (a biggie). Apparently the way one speaks to people of differing social classes. That it's not apparently in vogue right now there to notice that there are obvious differences in social class. The kinds of comments one could make. (I blew it there on our first day at the hotel, we were on the fourth floor and there was no lift, so we hauled our bags up the narrow stairs. I was wheezing when I got back to the front desk and made a comment about not needing to go to the gym to kind of break the ice and the man thought I was complaining about the stairs and their hotel! when I was complaining more about my being old and wheezy.) I spent one afternoon, while my daughter sketched, watching people interact in a public place. It was remarkably different than I had expected.

It was a great vacation. A complete change of culture while still having a common language and enough in common that the jolt wasn't too bad. It was harder for my daughter, though. She had fun, but I could see many times when the strain was pretty hard on her and we cut our days short. And you're trying to navigate our culture now? Good luck!! !!

To the OP, one final comment.

Do not underestimate your child. I read a lot of posts here on WP from parents who are understandably concerned about their spectrum children. I see a tendency in many posts to assume the child is less capable than I'd bet they actually are. Monitor your child, but don't go rushing in to "fix" every problem or trial. We learn by doing. Things that a NT has as innate skills are things we have to learn by rote. It's not always pretty, but it's so much harder to do them, to learn to deal with them, as an adult. Children are entirely more resilient, and that includes spectrum children as well, than adults are. The more times we encounter something, the more we are able to learn its shape and boundaries, and what works and what does not. And from that many of us can build out a framework that helps us navigate our lives.

You'll do fine. You care about your child, and that is one heck of an asset for him. Please feel free to PM at any time if I can be of assistance.

nan,

i am from eastern europe. i found that i "get" most europians and some people from southern america. i also spent some time in japan and there it is easier to pick up the rules since imo people are very obeying to them yet there are absurd and crazy release mechanisms. very different society and people. after that i understood (well nominally) why they started a war with us and asian countries at the same time. one can tell the differenece between parts of us too.

in europe complaining is kind of a sport so no wonder they thought you are complaing about the lift. also "breaking the ice" is not usual or required (as in us). i love vacationing in europe because of that.