4 year old girl previous autistic tendencies

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Hi, I am interested in input from other parents. Im going to try to be breif with this (a difficult task for me!)

My daughter (now 4) regressed in language and potty habits slowly over a course of time between ages 2 1/2 and 3 (she had actually picked up her language and potty training at a very early age, she seemed advanced at that point) eventually she had major language regression, and began just making what I have always called "white noise" a humming noise, or baby talk "abbaddaaahhhaaabaaahh" she eventually started picking speach back up, in the form of repeating people or shows, and now has normal speach again.

during her regression period she also was arm flapping, developed major sensory issues that conserned me and her doctor, and a whole lot of other things her doctor said that she seemed to have autistic tendencies, which he explained doesnt nessesarily mean she is autistic, but just that she has tendencies, and he referred us to a neuro for that and her seizures.

once on her seizure meds, the disturbing behaviors began to go away, now they are completely gone, though there are still some things that I dont understand about her, one is her behavior, she is impossible to get through to or teach at times which is so different from my other two... also her temperment, when she has a conflict with me or her brother or sister, she doesnt use her words to talk to us, she screams high ptched at us, just a sharp shrill high pitched shriek.

something a number of people have commented on are her eyes, no one can put their finger on what it is about her eyes, just that something doesnt seem right about her eyes. even when she was a baby my great grandmother used to say, look at her eyes, there is something wrong, her eyes dont look right, we just blew it off then, i Didnt notice, but now that she is older I do, but I cant figure out what it is...


there are other things as well, but Ill end with that for now any comments or thoughts appreciated...

Candy - Sorry, I saw your other message and was going to send you an email and got interrupted and forgot about it.

My son also regressed around three years old. He did however have prior - what I would call "positive" AS traits like being a very early reader, very comprehensive speech fror his age, excellent memory (like being able to remember a complicated route to Grandma's after only going to her new house one time). However, there were no hints of sensory issues like he had after he regressed.

The pediatrician referred us to a neuro-psych and she told us that is was PDD - which in my ignorance did not know was autism. I thought it was a new name - like they tend to reclassify things in psychiatry - for the anxiety and sensory issues I had as a child. But I didn't understand why my son went from seeming fine - he was actually a chubby, happy little boy until he regressed. And when he regressed he lost language which he has recovered somewhat, but still has delays and he is 8 now. He was tested for seizures - including Landau-Keffler- but that was ruled out. So - my son is considered HFA because of how he presents but one doctor did say it was atypical autism because he doesn't really fit into the autism catagory because language did develop.

One thing about the seizure meds - I was tested for seizures also before and they were ruled out too (this was a long time ago). But - one doctor wanted me to try a seizure medication that was not a primary one but one that is used with other meds. Anyway - it did seem to help, but I stopped taking it right away because it made me too sleepy. Your post is very interesting about how your daughter improved on the seizure medication. You certainly can have both seizures and ASD - some say those on the spectrum are more likely but that was being debated someplace else. And I have said before that when I am having a sensory overload it does feel just like that an "overload". One time I was driving with my mom and kids in the car and between them talking and the traffic and the radio I guess I was gripping the steering wheel and staring into space and my mom was very concerned about it. I didn't even remember doing that - I kind of thought that was like shutting down or something because of all the noise.

Is your daughter still on the seizure medication? If she has autism AND seizures than that could explain why the behaviors increase when she is off of them. However, I don;t know about other conditions that can cause autism-like behaviors. I saw a list of conditions somewhere - including things like FragileX. I'll see if I can find a link for you.

Does it look like her eyes are slightly crossed? I just read a post by one woman who said that one of her daughter's eyes seemed to be
crossed due to pressure on her optic nerve, and it turned out to be hydrocephalus.

Not that you child has it or anything, but I just thought I'd share because we are going through this with our son and it is my current new obsession. But it does kind of go along with why there might have been a regression and then a recovery.

Anyway, if it is benign hydrocephalus, fluid starts and continues to accumulate in the brain at some point when they are babies, causing pressure on the brain and usually motor or speech delays. Then the blockage clears and the fluid drains around 2 or 3 years old, sometimes later. I just spoke to a woman on the phone who is a friend of a friend and whose son has it, and his latest scan at 4 yrs shows that he has finally outgrown it, and the fluid has drained. She said that he is completely different because he used to have speech and movement issues, be very isolated and sensitive to noises and activites and now he's not. She said most people cannot tell that he ever had anything wrong. He has been in speech, occupational and physical therapy also since he was 5 months old, when they first noticed a spike in his head size and discovered it. Our son had a spike at 6 months, but our pediatrician didn't pick up on it. She said that when her son was diagnosed less than 4 years ago, she could only find one paragraph on it and her pediatrician had never heard of it. If you have records of your child head size from birth on, it might be worth a look. Just a thought.

Thanks for the info, would this be something that would have been picked up in one of her MRIs?

Her eyes dont really seemed crossed I dont think... I wish I could explain, I went and tried to find a picture, thinking I could post it, but I dont really notice it as much in pictures... I think its more in the movement of her eyes maybe, they seem slow, maybe slow to focus, and distant.

She has beautiful blue eyes, but there is just something different about them, when people have commented on them, (my father for example, and grandmother) I have always asked what they notice, it is the same reply... "I dont know, I cant put my finger on it, they are just different" When pressed, my father said "they seem tired or something"

but no doctors have ever commented on them (and she has been to tons of doctors) and I have pointed them out to one doctor who made the comment "they look fine, they may just be deep set" which wasnt what I was refering to, but since I couldnt explain the problem anyways, I just let it go, that was a couple years ago...

Last edited by Candy on 03 May 2006, 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

She is still on the seizure medicine, I noticed you said that your doctor put you on a seizure medication that was not a primary one but one that is used with other meds, that it helped but made you sleepy.

Im curious, what was he trying to accomplish with them? (what conditions or problems were you having that he thought they may help?)

Also do you remember the name of the medication? Was it by chance Trileptal?

The first doctor who really looked into the behavior issues had said something about her seizure meds being one typically used along side another, and that it could help with the autistic tendencies and odd behavior issues as well as the seizures (which it did) every doctor since then doesnt really look into the behaviors so much, they have all been just interested in the seizures.

She just had her last EEG a couple weeks ago, It showed no seizure activity, and her new doctor says we can start weaning her from the medicine in September as long as she does not have any seizures between now and then.

she has been on the meds about 2 years now. I wonder if the autistic tendencies will come back without them? Or worst, the regression again? Her new Dr. says no, and doesnt seem to think the meds had any effect on the behaiors, just the seizures, but her old Dr. seemed to have a different opinion on that...

I am so glad she will be off the meds, they make her sleepy, she sleeps alot more then the average child... (but she was doing that before the meds too, come to think of it...)Sigh, I wish answeres to childhood health problems were easier to come by....

I took Neurontin (Gabapentin I think is another name for it and spelling might be off). I found out later that alot of doctors were trolling with it to see if it would help for different issues. I was having severe sensory overloads and I was taking Zoloft for OCD and chronic depression and it was agitating so I was also taking Xanax too. I wasn't happy about him trying to add a third medication but I tried it ever so briefly and it did take the edge off. I was supposed to take it three times a day but the dose made me fall asleep. The doctor tried to say that you get used to it after awhile but I didn't want to try and after that stopped seeing him because he was too insistant about it.

just wondering why autism was ruled out. She may have processing issues with her vision. My daughter can look dazed and not focuses at times and stimms by using her perifrial (sp?) vision. A processing issue can look different in different children

hmm, not sure, but that is interesting... some family members have commented on her eyes since she was only about 6 months old, though I did not notice it then...

I think autism was ruled out for a couple reasons, the only doctor who has even explored it was the last one we saw, he just mentioned it breifly based on her past problems

then he asked if she could draw, and gave her paper, she drew a picture, then she went over to play with toys, as she was playing with toys he asked me if she engages in imaginative play, I said yes. and he said he doesnt think there is any autism there. and he suggested we go to a child developement specialist to evaluate her for developemental issues.

the two things he mentioned that stuck in my mind was that she engagesin creative play, and seemed to interact fine with him. (which she did interact well with him) plus she has very normal speech for a four year old now...

I still think she may have aspergers or something maybe, but I dont know...

It really helps to see a speacialist in autism. It sounds like he was screening for the more classic kanners type. My daughter has imaginitive play-but only mimics things she was taught. Its not really a yes or no question. Also some ASD kids relate with adults fine. My daughter even loves children but her interactions are immature and little off. Active but odd, is the way the experts describe it. I even notice that the teacher's aids and ABA aids dont know how to identify the asperger's kids. The go "wow he talks fine, I dont know what the problem is..." I'm not trying to freak you out. I would see a specialist to rule out less sever ASDs

At 4, my ds could draw a picture and he did play with Thomas trains. Was it creative play? Or, mimicking one of the television shows? I don't know.

When a therapist suggested Asperger's last year, his doctor said "no" based on three questions.

We found another doctor. He was diagnosed as High Functioning Autistic.

your daughter sounds a bit like mine... also, with her imaginative play, she pretty much plays the same things all the time she lines the animals up and makes them talk to each other, but it seems like the game doesnt chance much, even if the toys change, the conversation is the same...

Also, she does love other children, and when I say, so and so is coming over to play, she gets really excited, but when so and so gets there, she wont have anything to do with her, and the friend plays with my son instead...

She has a referral to a developemental pediatrician, but who knows what they will say, we have been to so many doctors so far that I figure if they were going to do anything about her, they would have by now:(

read a ton of books on HFA and AS also you can administer the MCHAT yourself-you will find it online. I know how to diagnos, and I know my daughter better than anyone. I had already dxed her myself by the time she saw the specialist. I say to read books on HFA and AS because it is almost a different dx than kanner's autism. If the dr. isn't familiar or used to this realatively new dx they will miss it all together. Read up-I hate it when I know more than "Doctors"

what kind of doctor did you find that ended up diagnosing him?

Also, what were the 3 questions he said no based on?

Its funny, since I have been reading about this, I realize my son (who really is just an exception child) has all of the good traits that I am reading about on AS (like never lying, being good with directions, extremely rigid on rules, and very habitual on his routine, for example if I am in a hurry, and tell him he doesnt have to do a certain chore on his chore chart, he is insistent on doing it because "see, I have to because its on the chart, mom!") He also didnt talk till past the age of three, and didnt walk until he was 16 months. But he is exceptionally smart for his age, and still has a bit of a speech problem, but talks well anyways.

His behavior is great, so I have never worried about him at all, (actually I have always thought... until his my daughter hit about 2 years old, that my son was so great, it must be that I am just a great parent, lol)now... his sister seems to have all of the negetive traits of AS screaming tantrums, not being able to get through to her AT ALL.

(for example on the potty regression issue when she was peeing in my chairs and behind my couch, everyone told me back then to get her to help clean up the messes, she flat out refused, I would try to get her to help, and explain to her why, it was like talking to a wall, she stared right through me, if I persisted, she would start screaming and that could last for up to two hours, it was impossible to make her do anything!) and often she would get so upset she would end up having a seizure, this was before she was on the meds...

My son I assume does not have AS, just has some of the odd resemblences, plus, I have always thouoght his hearing was not real good, when he was three and still not talking, we went to have his hearing evaluated, they said they were not able to get accurate results due to his inability to talk, just last week though, his new pediatrician did a hearing screening and eyesight screening and referred him to an audiologist and and optometrist because he had problems with both tests, so Im thinking some of his early problems could have been due to things like hearing issues....

My daughter on the other hand, I can not hardly handle:( Literally if something doesnt go her way, she crys for HOURS!! !

And she doesnt just cry because she is trying to get her way, because even if you give her her way she continues to cry, and doesnt even want whatever it was anymore, the crying still goes on for hours, a good example, she has wanted something, and I have not understood what she was saying, she got upset and started crying and screaming, my son explained to me what it was she was wanting, I appologized to her and gave it to her, she refused to take it and continued crying for about an hour,.

I tried to calm her during this time, but nothing worked, I finally had to just leave the room and let her cry until she finished -which is heart breaking!

finally when she was done I tried to talk to her, and ask her why she was upset, and what she needs, and she said she didnt know, or doesnt remember.

-this happened at a family members home once, and what was said to me was "I would never let my son throw a fit like that!" I was thinking, what do YOU suggest I do about it?! !

I dont know if it is AS or something else, a few family members have said she is just spoiled, or basically that I am not a good parent, but I parent her the same as the others, so how could my horrible parenting turn out one absolutely perfect child, and one that I have constant problems with? Sigh... Its frusterating